Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

[Alt+F4]

I'd still like to know what people who sympathize with or even participate in the OWS movement think of the 'occupy NYC subway' idea.

Almost all the subway stops they have choosen to occupy are stops used by regular working class folks, the super-wealthy don't take the subway. I predict they will be ignored or mocked ("go home and occupy a bathtub").

 

[timhau]

Oh wait, I'm talking about Elizabeth Warren and look how much support she's getting with an honestly grassroots campaign. (Hint: It's not enough to be elected president.)

I think there's actually only one person who's getting enough support to be elected president. We don't know who it is yet, which is sort of the reason why there is an election about a year from now.

 

[Virus]

I'm a frail 46-year old intellectual, do you really think I'd sleep in a gdammned tent if I thought there were any other solutions?

You could just not do it.

 

[Ziggurat]

Although the idea of running for office is pretty. it's so Hollywood - march into Washington with my horde of cable TV watching allies.

You know, there are other offices besides President. Hell, there are political offices outside Washington. There are even political offices outside of your state capital.

And it still sounds like you're abandoning democracy because you didn't win. That's not how democracy works.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Almost all the subway stops they have choosen to occupy are stops used by regular working class folks, the super-wealthy don't take the subway. I predict they will be ignored or mocked ("go home and occupy a bathtub").

If they're lucky. An ass kicking might be another option.

 

[bookitty]

The problem is that somebody convinced you that sleeping in a tent was any kind of possible solution, last resort or not.

I think the country could very certainly do with less corporate influence in government. I just never believed for a moment that the "OWS" culture - standing around wearing goofy masks, using bizarre pseudonyms, and something to do with drums, is the way to go about it. How can you say this movement gave you a "better chance for your voice to be heard"? Your problem with (say) the closing of a few local schools is completely drowned out by overly general sloganeering and drumming. And are we forgetting about the fact that anyone who dared to say anything as specific as "no tar sands pipeline" was immediately and vociferously decried as "not representing the movement"?

Starting a dialog around corporate influence and economic injustice is my primary goal. That has been, to some degree, achieved. Perhaps it will go further as different types of activism or movements spring up.

 

[bookitty]

You know, there are other offices besides President. Hell, there are political offices outside Washington. There are even political offices outside of your state capital.

And it still sounds like you're abandoning democracy because you didn't win. That's not how democracy works.

Actually, we don't even have a democracy. We have a democratic republic specifically because the biggest problem with democracy is that might will make right. If we had a simple democracy, we'd have national health care.

 

[Alt+F4]

Although the idea of running for office is pretty. it's so Hollywood - march into Washington with my horde of cable TV watching allies. It might help if I was someone who could completely navigate the twisty inroads of the financial sector; has thoroughly studied the economics of all aspects of the private sector, from huge corporations to individual bankruptcies; has insider knowledge of the bailout but is still focused on consumer protection; and understands law well enough to teach it at Harvard.

Such a defeatest attitude...If Carolyn McCarthy could do it, why can't you? She's just one example of someone with no money, no connections who refused to give up on our democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolyn_McCarthy

 

[bookitty]

Absolutely!

You know what wouldn't be so neat? Destroying whatever little is left for the victims by "bringing down the New York Stock Exchange".

For two hours? By standing outside?

I am seriously puzzled. You are aware that we had a global financial crisis a few years back, yes? That this crisis impacted nearly every country, wiping out retirement funds, destroying home equity and other very nasty side-effects.

But all your ire is pointed at people who are protesting these effects because you don't like their style.

 

[bookitty]

So my question was this "As an occupier/activist I do have one question though - If the issues addressed by OWS* and various occupies are something that concern me, how else can I make my voice heard?"

And so far the answer has primarily been "run for office" which is bit dramatic. Personally, I'd rather find a way to ask our currently elected officials to consider their entire community and not just those who have paid for their elections.

 

[Brainster]

As an occupier/activist I do have one question though - If the issues addressed by OWS* and various occupies are something that concern me, how else can I make my voice heard? This is not a facetious question. After using all the tools available to a citizen, I no longer have faith in any traditional aspect of our democratic system.

I suggest shouting, "Mic check!" a lot and marching around with signs calling for the overthrow of the system. It won't work, but you will get some decent cardio.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I am seriously puzzled. You are aware that we had a global financial crisis a few years back, yes? That this crisis impacted nearly every country, wiping out retirement funds, destroying home equity and other very nasty side-effects.

It also caused a lot of great stocks to be priced at a discount.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

And so far the answer has primarily been "run for office" which is bit dramatic. Personally, I'd rather find a way to ask our currently elected officials to consider their entire community and not just those who have paid for their elections.

I think Checkmite addressed that already. Just because they do things you don't agree with doesn't mean they aren't addressing the community. The Teabaggers had the same problem with this.

 

[Neally]

As an occupier/activist I do have one question though - If the issues addressed by OWS* and various occupies are something that concern me, how else can I make my voice heard? This is not a facetious question. After using all the tools available to a citizen, I no longer have faith in any traditional aspect of our democratic system.

You have freedom of speech, therefore your voice gets heard. Just because your demands don't get adopted the way you want doesn't mean the system is broken. The tea party did it. OWS could do it too if they weren't tards.

economic injustice,

Define.

the stupidity of having the second lowest corporate and income tax rates

The US corp tax rate is nearly double the world average. http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/27777.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TaxPolicyBlog+%28Tax+Foundation+-+Tax+Foundation%27s+%22Tax+Policy+Blog%22%29

cutting aspects of social services - cops,

Funny how the left has a love/hate relationship with the cops. One minute they're the evil pigs brutally denying free speech and assembly, the next minute they're the poor underpaid public servants.

 

[bookitty]

I think Checkmite addressed that already. Just because they do things you don't agree with doesn't mean they aren't addressing the community. The Teabaggers had the same problem with this.

There are signs that the government has not been attending to the needs of the entire population. Here are but a few of the hundreds of examples:

Our schools which were once the best in the world have fallen far short of that in a mere 30 years.

Serving in the military puts you at greater risk for unemployment, mental health issues and homelessness.

15% of the US population lives in poverty.

Medical costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US. 75% of those who claim bankruptcy from medical cost had insurance.

Budget cuts have forced the police in many cities to focus on only violent crime. In Los Angeles, for example, there is no more overtime pay and cases are being backlogged.

Ditto cuts to fire departments which is making the job more dangerous.

The US currently has the highest prison rate in the world.

The cost of higher education has skyrocketed in the last 10 years. (for example, the UC system is 4 times higher then 10 years ago.)

It's not about what I want, it's not even about what's "fair." A civilized society relies on a certain degree of cooperation.

 

[Checkmite]

Starting a dialog around corporate influence and economic injustice is my primary goal. That has been, to some degree, achieved.

That "achievement" was reached two months ago. Since then, OWS has been superfluous if that was the point.

 

[Checkmite]

For two hours? By standing outside?

Is that was is meant by "bring down the Stock Exchange"?

I am seriously puzzled. You are aware that we had a global financial crisis a few years back, yes? That this crisis impacted nearly every country, wiping out retirement funds, destroying home equity and other very nasty side-effects.

But all your ire is pointed at people who are protesting these effects because you don't like their style.

Not merely because I don't like their style, but because I think their style is counter-productive.

 

[bookitty]

You have freedom of speech, therefore your voice gets heard. Just because your demands don't get adopted the way you want doesn't mean the system is broken. The tea party did it. OWS could do it too if they weren't tards.


Define.

The US corp tax rate is nearly double the world average. http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/27777.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TaxPolicyBlog+%28Tax+Foundation+-+Tax+Foundation%27s+%22Tax+Policy+Blog%22%29
Funny how the left has a love/hate relationship with the cops. One minute they're the evil pigs brutally denying free speech and assembly, the next minute they're the poor underpaid public servants.

Many corporate leaders have noted that other OECD countries have lowered their corporate tax rates in recent years, but fail to mention that these countries have also closed corporate tax loopholes while the U.S. has expanded them.

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/oecd201106.pdf

There is no love/hate relationship with the cops. There is only a system which keeps cutting funding to the police, making it difficult for them to do their job and closing community outreach programs.

An undermanned and outgunned force will often turn to preemptive aggression in order to keep the upper hand. Oakland is a prime example of this. Having an underfunded police presence (80 cops were laid off in August) in the murder capital of the west is hardly the best way to bring the crime stats down. The fear and anger between the community and the cops was well-established long before Occupy.

 

[bookitty]

Is that was is meant by "bring down the Stock Exchange"?



Not merely because I don't like their style, but because I think their style is counter-productive.

Fair enough. Can you please suggest a more productive style?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

There are signs that the government has not been attending to the needs of the entire population. Here are but a few of the hundreds of examples:

Our schools which were once the best in the world have fallen far short of that in a mere 30 years.

Serving in the military puts you at greater risk for unemployment, mental health issues and homelessness.

15% of the US population lives in poverty.

Medical costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US. 75% of those who claim bankruptcy from medical cost had insurance.

Budget cuts have forced the police in many cities to focus on only violent crime. In Los Angeles, for example, there is no more overtime pay and cases are being backlogged.

Ditto cuts to fire departments which is making the job more dangerous.

The US currently has the highest prison rate in the world.

The cost of higher education has skyrocketed in the last 10 years. (for example, the UC system is 4 times higher then 10 years ago.)

It's not about what I want, it's not even about what's "fair." A civilized society relies on a certain degree of cooperation.

Then it sounds like you need to get like minded and sympathetic politicians elected to office. Camping out isn't going to do that.