JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

[Tomtomkent]

The signatories to an autopsy report has nothing whatsoever to do with the interpretation of the report. This is just more irrelevant minutia. But many of those listed names repudiate your contention that there was no large blow-out in the back of the head:

For example:

- Dr. John Ebersole, Bethesda Hospital radiologist. In an extensive interview with his hometown newspaper in 1978, Dr. Ebersole said, "When the body was removed from the casket there was a very obvious horrible gaping wound in the back of the head" (Lifton 543).

There are many more examples I could list, but I do realize that I am dealing with a psychosis of Orwellian Double-think on this board, which means that no matter what the evidence, down will equal up, black will equal white, and a large exit hole in the back of the head will equal a small wound of entrance. You guys are completely, and utterly hopeless. Confucious say, "When the student is ready, the teacher appears." You guys are not ready now, nor will you ever be. Nuff said.

So you believe it is psychosis for me to ask what material evidence you have to prove one narrative more or less honest and reliable than alternatives?

Perhaps you should describe exactly how, as an unbiased observer not wanting to indulge in confirmation bias of the "of course it's a conspiracy" kind.

You may also notice I said this:

Now I expect you to go back tot he parkland testemony (again). So let's anticipate that, it is the word of your twenty selective witnesses against the word of around thirty people present at the autopsy. So I will emphasise again what evidence supports your claims that one group of witnesses are right and another group are wrong?

I don't want answers along the lines of "this many say so" because hey look, coroboration here too. I don't want "they work for American Intelligence" or "of course they were conspiritors" because that is your opinion. I want material evidence to support your claims.

Or I want you to admit you don't have any and have not, and can not "prove" a darned thing.

And indeed, as predicted you have responded with more testemony and no material evidence.

Why is that Robert?

 

[Robert Prey]

So you believe it is psychosis for me to ask what material evidence you have to prove one narrative more or less honest and reliable than alternatives?

Perhaps you should describe exactly how, as an unbiased observer not wanting to indulge in confirmation bias of the "of course it's a conspiracy" kind.

You may also notice I said this:



And indeed, as predicted you have responded with more testemony and no material evidence.

Why is that Robert?

Evidence: The real entrance wound: That large exit at the right temple??? About a quarter inch, rounded, symmetrical, just like the ballistics book says.

NSFW - Graphic content

 

[Tomtomkent]

Evidence: The real entrance wound: That large exit at the right temple??? About a quarter inch, rounded, symmetrical, just like the ballistics book says.



[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_526994ebe70dc7a7ad.jpg[/qimg][qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_526994ebe70dc7a7ad.jpg[/qimg]

Is that not the photograph you said was fake?

Besides it being a bevelled exit notch.

 

[Robert Prey]

So you believe it is psychosis for me to ask what material evidence you have to prove one narrative more or less honest and reliable than alternatives?

Perhaps you should describe exactly how, as an unbiased observer not wanting to indulge in confirmation bias of the "of course it's a conspiracy" kind.

You may also notice I said this:



And indeed, as predicted you have responded with more testemony and no material evidence.

Why is that Robert?

And the back of the head wound as described by all the Parkland Docs as dictated by Dr. McCelland: That is Evidence. Deal with it, if you can.

 

[Robert Prey]

Is that not the photograph you said was fake?

Besides it being a bevelled exit notch.

NO. This is pre-autopsy. And there certainly doesn't seem to be any large hole blasted at this right temple location, is there?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Any photos you see that resemble JFK are not autopsy photos.

Hmmm.... Want to explain this inconsistancy? Surely you aren't now saying those are genuine photos misinterpreted?

 

[Tomtomkent]

NO. This is pre-autopsy. And there certainly doesn't seem to be any large hole blasted at this right temple location, is there?

Really, so where did these pre-autopsy photos come from? You said any that looked like JFK were fake!

 

[Tomtomkent]

And the back of the head wound as described by all the Parkland Docs as dictated by Dr. McCelland: That is Evidence. Deal with it, if you can.



[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/526994ebe72478f327.jpg[/qimg]

Yeah that isn't shown in the photograph either... Neither is the area of the head shown in the autopsy photographs. In fact it is clipped so tightly we cant even see it was JFK. How about the uncropped photo?

By the way drawings to support a witness testemony aren't material evidence as we have no more testable data than the statement itself.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Are you suggesting the body was altered during the autopsy and the wound somehow moved?

 

[Tomtomkent]

So on the subject of tic for tac "he said she said" testemony, what makes the quotes listed by RP any more reliable than those given by:

Zapruder,
Marylin Sitzman or James Altgen?

That is if we put aside the cropping of the photograph to avoid showing the "vast exit wound" on the back of the head, but a flap of flesh at the edge of what is indicated to be the large exit wound above the exit notch on all the other pictures posted so far. (And accept this is indeed a picture of JFK, from the extreme close up and lack of identifiable features or provenence).

And again, what is telling (especially in context with this) is that the wounds Robert is describing is what we KNOW somebody else in the same car recieved who had a passing resemblence to JFK. According to Who Shot JFK by Robert Ramsey, was known amongst his colleagues as "JFK" thanks to a passing similarity.

 

[Tomtomkent]

So you believe it is psychosis for me to ask what material evidence you have to prove one narrative more or less honest and reliable than alternatives? Perhaps you should describe exactly how, as an unbiased observer not wanting to indulge in confirmation bias of the "of course it's a conspiracy" kind.

As Robert seems to have quoted this question then not answered it, I thought I would bring it back to his attention.

You did state it was Double Speak and Psychosis Robert. Is that what you actually meant? How exactly DO we decide which narrative is more correct if it is psychosis to demand evidence? (And worse still, to expect you to prove the provenence of the evidence).

 

[matt.tansy]

So if this is the entrance wound:

NSFW - Graphic content

and this is the exit wound:

then the shooter was... John Connally?

 

[RoboTimbo]

And the back of the head wound as described by all the Parkland Docs as dictated by Dr. McCelland: That is Evidence. Deal with it, if you can.



[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/526994ebe72478f327.jpg[/qimg]

LOL. No, that's a drawing. Why does the Zapruder film showing the right front of Kennedy's head blowing out contradict that drawing? Why does the high speed video of bullets and the website about entrance and exit wounds you posted earlier both confirm the video we see of the exit wound in the right front of Kennedy's head?

You've posted so much real evidence confirming the exit wound in the right front of Kennedy's head and it so easily demolishes the other "evidence" (your drawing and anecdotes), what are we to make of it all? You've obviously culled the loony stuff from conspiriloon sites.

I assume that now you will go back to those Whack-a-loon sites and give them a good piece of your mind for feeding you what you now know to be crap. Show them this thread and they'll see for themselves how thoroughly you embarrassed yourself using the crap from those kind of sites. You could probably get some money out of them, considering the depth and breadth of your being totally pwned here.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Sorry, my mistake. The officer with a frontal head shot that was at the hospital on the same day was JD Tippet. So not in the motorcade, but he apparently did have the nickname JFK, and was certainly dead around the same time.

http://www.forteantimes.com/strangedays/conspiracycorner/341/jfk_and_the_autopsy_photos.html

So I googled Tippit Autopsy Photos... and hey look what is on there... the uncropped copy of RPs image. Hmm.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?pq=t...&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

 

[Walter Ego]

Why does the Zapruder film showing the right front of Kennedy's head blowing out contradict that drawing? Why does the high speed video of bullets and the website about entrance and exit wounds you posted earlier both confirm the video we see of the exit wound in the right front of Kennedy's head?

You've posted so much real evidence confirming the exit wound in the right front of Kennedy's head...

I still can't get over the fact that Robert hung himself with material he posted himself. And he keeps slipping and sliding around this fact. He will never answer your direct and reasonable question but keep asking anyway.

Even the other JFK CT loons are distancing themselves from you..

I've wondered about this myself. If anyone needs a life preserver, it's Robert. But if there is anyone who agrees with his conspiracy position lurking on this thread, they are standing with their back to the shore pretending they can't hear him flailing in the water. Maybe he is too proud to send out a distress signal.

 

[RoboTimbo]

I still can't get over the fact that Robert hung himself with material he posted himself. And he keeps slipping and sliding around this fact. He will never answer your direct and reasonable question but keep asking anyway.

Oh, I know that. I just don't want him to forget what others already know. He has to deny reality in order to fuel his delusions. He's a good object lesson of what happens to your mental processes when you fall for that stuff too deeply.

I've wondered about this myself. If anyone needs a life preserver, it's Robert. But if there is anyone who agrees with his conspiracy position lurking on this thread, they are standing with their back to the shore pretending they don't hear him flailing in the water. Maybe he is too proud to send out a distress signal.

Fourbrick almost started to throw his oar in the water but then thought better of it. How would you help the guy, even if you wanted to? The only advice another CT could give him would be, "Shut up!"

He's a treasure.

 

[Walter Ego]

The JFK is the one conspiracy theory I bought into when I was much younger and it took me a long time to admit I was wrong. Part of it is because I had been a conspiracy theorist for so long it was hard to admit I had wasted my time for all those years. So these mental gymnastics are all too familiar to me.

How interesting. And now for the benefit of one who has actually done some serous homework on the subject, what was the one single piece of evidence that convinced you to change your mind. This is a question the Lone Nutters on this board have great difficulty with. Perhaps you can enlighten. Evidence, mind you. Not generalized minutia, hyperbole or ad hominem attack which seems to be the standard Lone Nutter tac.

If it often difficult to understand what Robert is saying. Is he saying that he believes everyone here who is not convinced there was a conspiracy to kill JFK formerly did believe in a conspiracy but was struck down on the road to Damascus by some single piece of evidence that changed his mind? (The Biblical metaphor is not unintentional.)

And why this continual harping on a single piece of evidence, pro or con?

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

Have patience, oh ye of little faith

Bingo. We are not dealing with a historical incident that can debated dispassionately by disinterested people of good will, but with a question of faith. Robert is an evangelist preaching to the heathens and apostates. Not a good evangelist, mind you, but one animated by religious fervor.

 

[I Ratant]

One of the more articulate and believable CTers on the CIS Conspiracy forum got accredited to the National Archives and reviewed all the evidence there.
He acknowledged his error and joined us LHOLNers.
RP, with apparently a lot of the information available, has been imprinted by Lifton's novel, and can't let it go, much like Jammonius on the 9-11 forum here, with an enormous amount of data which he posted, but was totally incapable of comprehending, to the point of advocating 'no planes'... which is even sillier than RP's position here.

 

[vtbub]

What a fun read.

A couple of questions. If there was indeed a second shooter from the knoll, wouldn't the Zapruder film show some evidence of it? Mind you, we know that three shots came from the same general place. A 4th shot from the other direction of Zapruder would certainly caught his and Mrs. Sitzman's attention as it would have sounded a whole lot different. Wouldn't the camera have jiggled as a reflex?

Since both of the bullets that struck JFK have been accounted for, where did the presumed grassy knoll bullet go? Surely, based on the evidence, if it was indeed shot it must have missed. Why did none of those on the knoll ever react to a shot that came from there?

Also, why did Oswald kill Tippet? What was his grand role in all this? Or was Oswald in the theater the whole time after skipping out of work and just carrying a .38 for crap and giggles?

Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[I Ratant]

The most obvious stopping point for a bullet through JFK from the GN would have been Jackie. Or one of the cycle cops on the left of the limo.
What is interesting is the three men on the steps to the Pergola would have been directly in front of the shooter, and yet they show no sign of anything blasting from their rear, or doing anything at all but watching the event unfold in front of them.
With 18 shooters from behind the picket fence, the noise must have been awesome!