Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[snook1]

No, because it's funny to read how he tries to line up all that hogwash that was presented by the prosecution to make it look like it makes at least a bit of sense. I find no joy in disagreement, that would be odd, wouldn't it?


Umm... Atta boy?

I must say I'm more thankful for the translated court documents, but maybe that's because I started reading all that stuff when the appeal was already over. In any case, kudos to that.


Aw, don't flatter yourself. This has nothing to do with the translation itself, nor the translators (who I don't know anyway). It's hardly their merit the report is so funny...

-
Osterwelle

Yeah, and kudos to you!

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Did Raff's dad and lawyers also tell him to shut up?

Or, are you saying that Amanda ran and got Raff and that he came to the house and then helped rudy kill Meredith while Amanda waited outside?

I'm confused.

Raff said enough when he didn't comment on Amanda's story about Patrick, because he knew Patrick wasn't evolved but he also knew the story was correct, just wrong name, Then when Rudy is apprehended and Raff's dad is so happy, Raff is not, and for good reason.

No, Raff went into the house, Amanda stayed out, Raff confronted Rudy, they spoke, and Raff ran away with Amanda to the park. Rudy killed Meredith all by himself. I doubt Raff even got far enough into the house to even know what stare Meredith was in. They should have called the cops right then and there, and none of this mess would have happened to them, but they didn't.

 

[Osterwelle]

She let him in, why?

And why would she be there anyway instead of being at Raffaele's? Why would she go over to the cottage after 20:40 instead of staying there and get laid?

The statement she gave to the cops was basically correct, except she couldn't give Rudy's name, he was still on the loose and she didn't know where he was, she was terrified of him, she saw first hand what he was capable of.

That makes no sense at all. If Amanda knew or thought that Guede was aware that she saw what happened, she'd never have been walking around for another couple of days, going to back to the cottage, going to school and everything. Blaming somebody else and especially someone she knew makes even less sense if she's just a witness than if she's the actual murderer.

Why was Rudy there?

And why would he stage a break-in afterwards? It makes no sense as this would've made his own involvment more likely because of his criminal record.

-
Osterwelle

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

S

She let him in, why?

Why wouldn't she just have gone to the police immediately? Why not call from her cell as she ran?

I think it was Raffaele that said that except for the court he had never been in the same room with Rudy. But even if it was Amanda this more of the bs statement analysis stuff.

If all she did was let him in why wouldn't she have said so at some time in the last 4 years?

Why was Rudy there? Because he had a date with Meredith?

When did she die? Everything points to a time before 10 so did Amanda run to the cottage after Popovic had come by just in time to let Rudy in? Did he then run into Meredith's room and stab her?

Why would the fact that she wasn't in the front row when the door was opened mean anything? If she was in the front row, PGP would say she was trying to control the scene.

Are you sure you're not Watson?

She most likely ran into him on her way back to the house to change, he had to use a washroom, no harm done, right. I think it started out innocently enough, but **** happens and things got out of hand.

I believe she wanted to tell the true story, does this ring a bell " I can not lie, I was there", then her dad telling basically to shut up.

The mistakes these two made happened after they left the house together the first time and went to the park, where I'm sure they discussed all their options, they chose the wrong one.

Front row, she may as well left the building, she knew what was behind thatdoor and did not want to see it again.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

This is interesting, and I had in the past reflected that something of this nature might be true.

But don't you think it would be a bit more than opening the door, and allowing Guede to use the bathroom?

I think most young people, myself at that age as well, would call the police upon finding that this acquaintance that was let in had brutally killed one's roommmate.

I had thought once that maybe Knox and Sollecito, in a silly or angry mood, or stoned, had suggested to Rudy that he should rob the place while everyone was away. Then, when they discovered what he had done, in horror they saw that he might talk, might tell police that they had suggested a robbery....

Actually, I think when she ran out to get Raff, she left with the intention of bringing help for Meredith, I don't think Raff knew Meredith was dead, he didn't get far enough into the house and Amanda stayed outside. Amanda didn't have her phone, she said herself, it was plugged in to charge up for the trip the next day. I really don't believe Amanda and Raff knew Meredith was murdered untill thyy went back to the house after 11:30 when Rudy was definately gone. Perhaps by then they felt it was to late to call the police and they needed to clear Amanda's involvement, hence the break-in and locking of Meredith's door.

 

[sln708]

I can see a possibility that she was entirely innocent, perhaps 25%, but I still believe she was involved to some extent, say 75%. I am fairly sure she was not in on the murder, her total involvement was most likely just letting Rudy into the house to use the bathroom, she ran away when things started to get out of hand and returned with RS.

I also thing the 4 years she spent in jail is about right for her involvement and I also believe that she basically told the truth as best as she could, without showing her involvement. I blame her parents for this, I believe she wanted to tell the truth all along, it was her parent and lawyers that basically told her to shut up.
The statement she gave to the cops was basically correct, except she couldn't give Rudy's name, he was still on the loose and she didn't know where he was, she was terrified of him, she saw first hand what he was capable of.

During the appeals she also sated the other than in a courtroom, the three of them were never under the same roof, they weren't, because when she came back with RS, she stayed outside like Rudy said.

Do you really think, when Meredith's door was about to be kicked in, Amanda would stay in the kitchen with Raff, having already done here part. I could go on and on but whats the point, I believe justice was served and Rudy got off too light.

That explains why there was no evidence of Amanda in Meredith's room but if her only involvement was letting Rudy in to use the bathroom, what is she guilty of that warrants 4 years in prison? Are you saying she was covering up for Rudy because she was afraid that he would come after her? Wouldn't that give her more reason to report him to the police? I must be missing something.

 

[Rashomon fan]

Is it Over?

Bruce says it's over, but only in the sense that Amanda and Raffaelle are now free, right? It seems to me that ultimately the Cassazione decision will matter a great deal to them both -- certainly to Amanda's reputation and in RS's case, possibly his future freedom as well?

I think as Rose said, there is still a lot to watch for, just not much happening for now.

I am still interested in the RS/AK case, the upcoming Motivation Report, the appeal transcripts, the side civil cases, and the appeal of Mignini. The Scazzi case is also something that I am interested in discussing.

Also, I've tried a quick search before asking this but couldn't find an answer: do AK's lawyers plan to appeal the Calunnia conviction? Maybe it depends on how Mignini's case turns out...

 

[RoseMontague]

She most likely ran into him on her way back to the house to change, he had to use a washroom, no harm done, right. I think it started out innocently enough, but **** happens and things got out of hand.

I believe she wanted to tell the true story, does this ring a bell " I can not lie, I was there", then her dad telling basically to shut up.

The mistakes these two made happened after they left the house together the first time and went to the park, where I'm sure they discussed all their options, they chose the wrong one.

Front row, she may as well left the building, she knew what was behind thatdoor and did not want to see it again.

The actual quote is:

It’s stupid. I can’t say anything but the truth, because I know I was there. I mean, I can’t lie on this, there is no reason to do it.

The context of "It's stupid" was the cops saying they had the double DNA knife placing Amanda with the murder weapon. Edda and Curt were saying it was a total fabrication and the cops were trying to get her to break down. Would there really be no reason to lie if the I was there meant she was at Meredith's during the murder?

 

[sln708]

Rose, I know this is way off topic but something has been bothering me ever since I started following this thread some 2 or more years ago...who the heck was the red headed girl in your previous avatar??

 

[Didaktylos]

I've always thought that what she meant by "I was there" (said with "there" emphasised) was that she was at Raf's flat.

 

[HumanityBlues]

Rose, I know this is way off topic but something has been bothering me ever since I started following this thread some 2 or more years ago...who the heck was the red headed girl in your previous avatar??

It's the woman from 5th Element. Milla Jovovich.

 

[Grinder]

I've always thought that what she meant by "I was there" (said with "there" emphasised) was that she was at Raf's flat.

Out of thousand of wiretaps and hours of conversations that the police taped the "I was there" is the best they got.

With out of context conversations and foreign language induced confusion it is amazing this was all they could find.

 

[sln708]

Thanks Randy...err...I mean HB

 

[Rashomon fan]

PMF, the controlled ragers

I realize there's a long history of deep blogwar antagonism that I have no experience with here, but I just want to say I've enjoyed/benefited from lurking at PMF when they discuss the facts of the case. I think there are intelligent people there. So if they concede a point to the defense - say when a moderator admits that the bleach receipt story has been completely discredited - I can be pretty certain it's been completely discredited, etc.

I don't say that about any other anti-Knox sites I've found, however. I think of it as the good ship "Pequod," from Moby Dick. i.e., Seaworthy, very tightly focused (to say the least) and incomprehensibly motivated.

 

[LondonJohn]

I've always thought that what she meant by "I was there" (said with "there" emphasised) was that she was at Raf's flat.

That's exactly what she did mean. The fuller context of the prison conversation makes that absolutely clear. It's only mendacious prosecutors and confirmation-biased pro-guilt commentators who have tried to misinterpret "there" as meaning the girls' cottage.

While I'm here, my quick two-penneth-worth on the whole .org/.net "haters" debate. I don't think that any of the people contributing to those sites are haters in the generally-defined sense of the term, and I would agree that it's unhelpful and counterproductive to use that term. I'm not even keen on the term "guilters", since this also conjures up certain pre-defined images. However, I do think that many of the more frequent contributors to those sites are troubled, maladjusted individuals who are trying to compensate for their own self-esteem issues by convincing themselves that they are fighting a just fight of "justice for Meredith". Even now, many of them remain convinced that they are performing some sort of humanitarian service (not to mention an explicit service to Meredith's family) by carrying on with attacks on Knox (mainly) and Sollecito (sometimes). I find their group behaviour totally fascinating, especially as I am a total neophyte in these sorts of online discussion groups: I guess I've had a baptism of fire! Oh, and I also think that a smaller core group of posters on those sites are deeply unpleasant, vindictive, passive-aggressive bullies: fortunately they let the facade drop and show their true colours often enough to betray their deeper foibles.

Like many others have also said, I have no truck whatsoever with engaging in civil debate with anyone arguing for guilt - even though by now I simply can't see how any rational being could make a logical case for guilt (in the same way that no rational being could make a logical case that the Moon landings were faked). But what I find so interesting - and distasteful - is that so many of the pro-guilt commentators think they are on some sort of ordained mission. I think that this factor is the main reason why they are so ready to circle the wagons, launch intense attacks on "non-believers", and continue to defend rationally-indefensible beliefs.

PS: I'm sure Marcus Brigstocke would be delighted to know that someone who calls herself "a dear friend" doesn't know how to spell his name properly

 

[Grinder]

She most likely ran into him on her way back to the house to change, he had to use a washroom, no harm done, right. I think it started out innocently enough, but **** happens and things got out of hand.

I believe she wanted to tell the true story, does this ring a bell " I can not lie, I was there", then her dad telling basically to shut up.

The mistakes these two made happened after they left the house together the first time and went to the park, where I'm sure they discussed all their options, they chose the wrong one.

Front row, she may as well left the building, she knew what was behind thatdoor and did not want to see it again.

With kindness in my voice, I must say yours is the wackiest theory except Mignini's satanic sex game gone ritualistic ever offered in this case.

They know Rudy a virtual stranger to Amanda and a complete stranger to Raffaele is brutalizing Meredith and their response is to hang out in the park for two hours and then clean, stage and lock instead of calling the police?

 

[LondonJohn]

I definitely missed the "intent" of the knife in the throat avatar.

Your explanation about what you did not like about the electric chair is appreciated and the difference is now understood.

No strudel today, Pilot (and anyhow, it was stollen last time: a totally different ball game). However, I did make a very excellent tarte tatin this evening

 

[smkovalinksy]

Rose, I know this is way off topic but something has been bothering me ever since I started following this thread some 2 or more years ago...who the heck was the red headed girl in your previous avatar??

I was wondering that , too!

 

[smkovalinksy]

Actually, I think when she ran out to get Raff, she left with the intention of bringing help for Meredith, I don't think Raff knew Meredith was dead, he didn't get far enough into the house and Amanda stayed outside. Amanda didn't have her phone, she said herself, it was plugged in to charge up for the trip the next day. I really don't believe Amanda and Raff knew Meredith was murdered untill thyy went back to the house after 11:30 when Rudy was definately gone. Perhaps by then they felt it was to late to call the police and they needed to clear Amanda's involvement, hence the break-in and locking of Meredith's door.

Would this suggest that the two arguing, and the terrible scream that was supposed to have been heard, was Knox and Sollecito, in the shock of discovery, and realizing they had touched a crime scene?

 

[Poppy1016]

I realize there's a long history of deep blogwar antagonism that I have no experience with here, but I just want to say I've enjoyed/benefited from lurking at PMF when they discuss the facts of the case. I think there are intelligent people there. So if they concede a point to the defense - say when a moderator admits that the bleach receipt story has been completely discredited - I can be pretty certain it's been completely discredited, etc.

I don't say that about any other anti-Knox sites I've found, however. I think of it as the good ship "Pequod," from Moby Dick. i.e., Seaworthy, very tightly focused (to say the least) and incomprehensibly motivated.

I agree, there are some very intelligent people from the PG sites. That is why I am baffled as to why they support the idea of banning people with differing viewpoints while they are free to bring their viewpoints here. Seems like a double standard.