JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

I Ratant · Nov 8, 2011

Zapruder demonstrating what he saw on, on tv that evening...
And "ejecta" from the bullet from the rear.... the 6th floor of the TSBD...
There is no bullet from the front.

I Ratant · Nov 8, 2011

bynmdsue said:
So...the autopsy reports and photos are fake and the Zapruder film is as well. Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for opening my eyes.

Y'know the President was on alot of medication. Wouldn't it just been simpler to muck with that? Y'know insteada all this out in public, uncontrolled environment type deal.

.
"Uncontrolled" is putting it mildly.

Look at all these confirmed shooters!
http://davesjfk.com/

RoboTimbo · Nov 8, 2011

Robert Prey said:
Coming soon: The Final Nail in the Lone Nutter Coffin

By which you mean the first, assuming you don't whack your own thumb with the hammer again, like you've done all these other times. Hope it doesn't mess up your thumb print.

EventHorizon · Nov 8, 2011

RoboTimbo said:
By which you mean the first, assuming you don't whack your own thumb with the hammer again, like you've done all these other times. Hope it doesn't mess up your thumb print.

It's okay. He can just get one off a dead body.

Walter Ego · Nov 8, 2011

Is It Conspiracy Yet?

Could someone quote Robert's last post in its entirety for me so I can see if he's come up with anything interesting. He is known to me now only through quotation. I assume he's moved on to the Grassy Knoll shooter.

bynmdsue · Nov 8, 2011

For Walter -

Robert Prey said:
The Fatal Bullet from the Grassy Knoll

There is so much evidence relating to the JFK assassination that it takes an entire book to just cover a small portion of it. In this post, I will only cover what I consider to be the Best Evidence, namely the fatal wound(s) to the President's head. That leaves out the single bullet controversy, the Dealey Plaza witnesses, the Zapruder film, the expert and counter expert conclusions about the spray of brain tissue, the ballistic "experts", the acoustic evidence and the many, muddled and clearly fraudulent interpretations of the autopsy and its alleged photos and x-rays.All we have left is that which cannot be altered or forged after the fact, mainly, the contemporaenous eye-witness accounts of those doctors, nurses and attendents at Parkland Hospital, before the FBI got to appraise them of the "offiicial script."

First the obvious but necessary explanation of entrance as versus exit wounds caused by a bullet.

From: Explore Forensics
http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/entrance-and-exit-wounds.html

Understanding Injuries > Entrance and Exit Wounds
Entrance and Exit Wounds
Author: Jack Claridge - Updated: 20 July 2010 | Comment
Entrance And Exit Wounds Gun Shot Bullet

"...The entrance wound is normally smaller and quite symmetrical in comparison to the exit wound..,."
"Exit wounds...are usually larger than the entrance wound and this is because as the round moves through the body of the victim it slows down and explodes within the tissue and surrounding muscle. This slowing down of the projectile means that as it reaches the end of its trajectory it has to force harder to push through. This equates to the exit wound normally looking larger and considerably more destructive than its pre-cursor - the entrance wound."

According to the Warren Report:
"The detailed autopsy of President Kennedy performed on the night of Nov. 22 at Bethesda Naval Hospital led by the three attending pathologists to conlude that the smaller hole in the rear of the President's skull was a point of entry and that the large opening on the right side of the head was the wound of exit. The smaller hole in the back of the President's head measured one-fourth of an inch by five-8ths of an inch... The dimensions of that wound were consistent with having been caused by a 6.5 millimeter bullet fired from behind and above..."

For some reason, the Warren Commission did not want to actually see the autopsy photos or x-rays, perhaps because they might conflict with their pre-determined script, but instead relied on drawings by H.A. Rydberg, under the direction of autopsy doctors Humes and Boswell as shown here.

These drawings obviously support a small alleged entrance wound in the back of the head and a larger wound of alleged exit at the right front. The problem with this interpretation is that it counters all of the accounts of the doctors, nurses and attendants at Parkland who observed a large wound in the back of the head, indicating a probable shot from the front -- from the Grassy Knoll. Here is a sampling of these observations:

Dr. McClelland:

"I was in such a position that I could closely examine the head wound, and I noted that the right posterior portion of the skull had been blasted. It had been shattered, apparently, by the force of the shot so that the parietal bone was protruded up through the scalp... as well as some of the occipital bone being fractured in its lateral half, and this sprung open the bones that I mentioned in such a wasy that you could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue had been blastd out."
The wound McClelland described would look like this drawing, a drawing that he approved for publication. -- (From "Not in your Lifetime" by Anthony Summers quoting McClelland's Warren testimony.)

This description was consistent with virtually all of the persons with only slight variations at Parkland, to wit:

The following quoted from JFK Lancer: http://www.jfklancer.com/ParklandDrs.html

Dr. Carrico:
"I believe there was shredded and macerated cerebral and cerebellar tissues both in the wounds and on the fragments of skull."
"This [wound] was a 5cm by 17cm defect in the posterior skull, the occipital region. There was an absence of the calvarium or skull in this area."
"[There was]...a fairly large wound on the right side of the head in the parietal/occipital area. One could see blood and brains, both cerebellum and cerebrum fragments in that wound."

Adolph Giesecke, Staff Anesthesiologist:
"It seemed that from the vertex to the left ear, and from the browline to the occiput on the left hand side of the head the cranium was entirely missing."

Marion Jenkins (Professor And Chairman Of Anesthesiology):
"There was a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital)...even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound. ,,,I really think part of the cerebellum, as I recognized it, was herniated from the wound...."

Charles Baxter, (Professor Of Surgery; Director Of Emergency Room)
"The right temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table."

Diana Bowron, Parkland Hospital nurse. Nurse Bowron actually cleaned the large defect and packed it with gauze squares in preparing the body for the casket. She vividly remembers that the large head wound was in the right rear part of the skull.
Doris Nelson, the supervising Emergency Room nurse, carefully inspected the body. Ben Bradlee, Jr., asked her, "Did you get a good look at his head injuries?" "A very good look," she replied. "Oh, I did see it. When we wrapped him up and put him in the coffin. I saw his whole head." She was then asked if the alleged autopsy photos were accurate. "No. It's not true. Because there was no hair back there. There wasn't even hair back there. It was blown away. Some of his head was blown away and his brains were fallen down on the stretcher." ("High Treason," by Groden and Livingstone 454)

From the HSCA

Paul Peters, (Assistant Professor Of Urology):
"I could see the occipital lobes clearly.... I thought it looked like the cerebellum was injured, or missing, because the occipital lobes seemed almost on the foramen magnum."

Malcolm Perry (Assistant Professor Of Surgery):
"The parietal occipital head wound was largely evulsive and there was visible brain tissue...and some cerebellum."

Dr. Kemp Clark, Associate Professor and Chairman of Neurosurgery:
"There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region." "Both cerebral and cerebellar tissues were extruding from the wound."

From: "JFK Conspiracy of Silence Charles A. Crenshaw, M.D.

"Had I been allowed to testify, I would have told them that there is no doubt in my mind that the bullet that killed President Kennedy was shot from the Grassy Knoll area...The entire right hemisphere of his brain was missing...based on my experience with trauma to the head from gunshots, I knew that only a high velocity bullet from a rifle could dissect a cranium that way. Part of his brain, the cerebellum, was dangling from the back of his head...The hundreds of trauma cases involving gunshots that I have seen and treated since 1963 further convince me that my conclusions about President Kennedy's wounds were correct....The men on the Commission heard exactly what they wanted to hear, or what they were instructed to hear and then reported what they wanted to report or what they were instructed to report.... the Warren Report (is) a fable, a virtual insult to the intellilgence of the American People."

Finally: Paul O'Connor, the man whose job it was to extract the brain of the President at Bethesda prior to the autopsy:
"My job was to remove the brain... there was no brain to remove. There was no brain." -- Lifton, "Best Evidence"

Thus, either the Warren Report is a lie, or all of these observations constitute a lie of multiple proportions. It strains credulity to think all these witnesses were simply mistaken. Somebody asked "Why is the Warren Report a Whitewash?" This is your answer.

Coming soon: The Final Nail in the Lone Nutter Coffin

,

>groan<

Tomtomkent · Nov 8, 2011

Robert Prey said:
The Fatal Bullet from the Grassy Knoll

There is so much evidence relating to the JFK assassination that it takes an entire book to just cover a small portion of it. In this post, I will only cover what I consider to be the Best Evidence, namely the fatal wound(s) to the President's head. That leaves out the single bullet controversy, the Dealey Plaza witnesses, the Zapruder film, the expert and counter expert conclusions about the spray of brain tissue, the ballistic "experts", the acoustic evidence and the many, muddled and clearly fraudulent interpretations of the autopsy and its alleged photos and x-rays.All we have left is that which cannot be altered or forged after the fact, mainly, the contemporaenous eye-witness accounts of those doctors, nurses and attendents at Parkland Hospital, before the FBI got to appraise them of the "offiicial script."

First the obvious but necessary explanation of entrance as versus exit wounds caused by a bullet.

From: Explore Forensics
http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/entrance-and-exit-wounds.html

Understanding Injuries > Entrance and Exit Wounds
Entrance and Exit Wounds
Author: Jack Claridge - Updated: 20 July 2010 | Comment
Entrance And Exit Wounds Gun Shot Bullet

"...The entrance wound is normally smaller and quite symmetrical in comparison to the exit wound..,."
"Exit wounds...are usually larger than the entrance wound and this is because as the round moves through the body of the victim it slows down and explodes within the tissue and surrounding muscle. This slowing down of the projectile means that as it reaches the end of its trajectory it has to force harder to push through. This equates to the exit wound normally looking larger and considerably more destructive than its pre-cursor - the entrance wound."

According to the Warren Report:
"The detailed autopsy of President Kennedy performed on the night of Nov. 22 at Bethesda Naval Hospital led by the three attending pathologists to conlude that the smaller hole in the rear of the President's skull was a point of entry and that the large opening on the right side of the head was the wound of exit. The smaller hole in the back of the President's head measured one-fourth of an inch by five-8ths of an inch... The dimensions of that wound were consistent with having been caused by a 6.5 millimeter bullet fired from behind and above..."

For some reason, the Warren Commission did not want to actually see the autopsy photos or x-rays, perhaps because they might conflict with their pre-determined script, but instead relied on drawings by H.A. Rydberg, under the direction of autopsy doctors Humes and Boswell as shown here.

These drawings obviously support a small alleged entrance wound in the back of the head and a larger wound of alleged exit at the right front. The problem with this interpretation is that it counters all of the accounts of the doctors, nurses and attendants at Parkland who observed a large wound in the back of the head, indicating a probable shot from the front -- from the Grassy Knoll. Here is a sampling of these observations:

Dr. McClelland:

"I was in such a position that I could closely examine the head wound, and I noted that the right posterior portion of the skull had been blasted. It had been shattered, apparently, by the force of the shot so that the parietal bone was protruded up through the scalp... as well as some of the occipital bone being fractured in its lateral half, and this sprung open the bones that I mentioned in such a wasy that you could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue had been blastd out."
The wound McClelland described would look like this drawing, a drawing that he approved for publication. -- (From "Not in your Lifetime" by Anthony Summers quoting McClelland's Warren testimony.)

This description was consistent with virtually all of the persons with only slight variations at Parkland, to wit:

The following quoted from JFK Lancer: http://www.jfklancer.com/ParklandDrs.html

Dr. Carrico:
"I believe there was shredded and macerated cerebral and cerebellar tissues both in the wounds and on the fragments of skull."
"This [wound] was a 5cm by 17cm defect in the posterior skull, the occipital region. There was an absence of the calvarium or skull in this area."
"[There was]...a fairly large wound on the right side of the head in the parietal/occipital area. One could see blood and brains, both cerebellum and cerebrum fragments in that wound."

Adolph Giesecke, Staff Anesthesiologist:
"It seemed that from the vertex to the left ear, and from the browline to the occiput on the left hand side of the head the cranium was entirely missing."

Marion Jenkins (Professor And Chairman Of Anesthesiology):
"There was a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital)...even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound. ,,,I really think part of the cerebellum, as I recognized it, was herniated from the wound...."

Charles Baxter, (Professor Of Surgery; Director Of Emergency Room)
"The right temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table."

Diana Bowron, Parkland Hospital nurse. Nurse Bowron actually cleaned the large defect and packed it with gauze squares in preparing the body for the casket. She vividly remembers that the large head wound was in the right rear part of the skull.
Doris Nelson, the supervising Emergency Room nurse, carefully inspected the body. Ben Bradlee, Jr., asked her, "Did you get a good look at his head injuries?" "A very good look," she replied. "Oh, I did see it. When we wrapped him up and put him in the coffin. I saw his whole head." She was then asked if the alleged autopsy photos were accurate. "No. It's not true. Because there was no hair back there. There wasn't even hair back there. It was blown away. Some of his head was blown away and his brains were fallen down on the stretcher." ("High Treason," by Groden and Livingstone 454)

From the HSCA

Paul Peters, (Assistant Professor Of Urology):
"I could see the occipital lobes clearly.... I thought it looked like the cerebellum was injured, or missing, because the occipital lobes seemed almost on the foramen magnum."

Malcolm Perry (Assistant Professor Of Surgery):
"The parietal occipital head wound was largely evulsive and there was visible brain tissue...and some cerebellum."

Dr. Kemp Clark, Associate Professor and Chairman of Neurosurgery:
"There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region." "Both cerebral and cerebellar tissues were extruding from the wound."

From: "JFK Conspiracy of Silence Charles A. Crenshaw, M.D.

"Had I been allowed to testify, I would have told them that there is no doubt in my mind that the bullet that killed President Kennedy was shot from the Grassy Knoll area...The entire right hemisphere of his brain was missing...based on my experience with trauma to the head from gunshots, I knew that only a high velocity bullet from a rifle could dissect a cranium that way. Part of his brain, the cerebellum, was dangling from the back of his head...The hundreds of trauma cases involving gunshots that I have seen and treated since 1963 further convince me that my conclusions about President Kennedy's wounds were correct....The men on the Commission heard exactly what they wanted to hear, or what they were instructed to hear and then reported what they wanted to report or what they were instructed to report.... the Warren Report (is) a fable, a virtual insult to the intellilgence of the American People."

Finally: Paul O'Connor, the man whose job it was to extract the brain of the President at Bethesda prior to the autopsy:
"My job was to remove the brain... there was no brain to remove. There was no brain." -- Lifton, "Best Evidence"

Thus, either the Warren Report is a lie, or all of these observations constitute a lie of multiple proportions. It strains credulity to think all these witnesses were simply mistaken. Somebody asked "Why is the Warren Report a Whitewash?" This is your answer.

Coming soon: The Final Nail in the Lone Nutter Coffin

,

For years there was much confusion over apparently conflicting photographs of JFKs head wounds. Some books (and I have a worrying feeling Best Evidence may have been one of them) suggested all kinds of odd theories. The wounds were altered, a body swapped, etc. But the simplest answer is this; the photos with wounds that don't match JFK do match the wounds one of his secret service got. Who was in the car with JFK, and who bore a passing resemblence to the president.

So is it more likely the totality of evidence in the Warren Commission is based on lies, or those few quotes were innaccurate? After all faking the Warren Commission also meant faking the Zapruda film, etc. Or perhaps understandably, as there are two folks with a passing resemblence, and massive headwounds complicating identification, the quotes are from folks who had confused the body (and curse google image searches with the wrong photo causing all this inane paranoia.)

tsig · Nov 8, 2011

I Ratant said:
.
"Uncontrolled" is putting it mildly.
Look at all these confirmed shooters!
http://davesjfk.com/

Dedicated researchers have narrowed the field of shooters and accomplices to 68!

Must have been some of the poorest marksmen in history! With that much lead hitting him Kennedy should have turned into a pink mist.

(hilite mine)

Noztradamus · Nov 8, 2011

tsig said:
Dedicated researchers have narrowed the field of shooters and accomplices to 68!

Must have been some of the poorest marksmen in history! With that much lead hitting him Kennedy should have turned into a pink mist.

(hilite mine)

As James McKinley noted in Assassination in America, there were so many people in the conspiracy, it would have been easier for them to wait twelve months and vote Kennedy out.

Eddie Dane · Nov 8, 2011

Jesus,

The walls of text that the Cnutters generate is staggering.

They must spend more time on their conspiracy of choice then I spend on Japanese bondage videos.

Walter Ego · Nov 8, 2011

Parkland Hospital and the Head Wounds

Thanks to Tomtomken and listbynmdsue for the quotes from Robert Prey.

For some reason, the Warren Commission did not want to actually see the autopsy photos or x-rays, perhaps because they might conflict with their pre-determined script, but instead relied on drawings by H.A. Rydberg, under the direction of autopsy doctors Humes and Boswell as shown here

This is what happens when you get your history from conspiracy books rather than from history books. It was the Kennedy family who refused to release the autopsy photos and x-rays to the Warren Commission.

The fear was that gruesome photos of JFK might be leaked to the press, not an unreasonable assumption, then or now. (Assassination ghoul and huckster Robert Groden later did steal an autopsy head shot of Kennedy from the National Archives.)

Robert quotes from conspiracy author Charles A. Crenshaw, a resident physician at Parkland Hospital in November 1963, on the head wounds. Is Crenshaw a credible witness?

Crenshaw has claimed both in his book and in public interviews that the President's head wound was posterior on the right side. In "Conspiracy of Silence" he wrote, "I walked to the President's head to get a closer look. His entire right cerebral hemisphere appeared to be gone. It looked like a crater—an empty cavity. "

How does Crenshaw know such things? According to the book, he had a central role in treating Kennedy. Yet when the New York Times called up Crenshaw in reponse to his book, he backed away from the book's claims as to how central he was, saying that Hansen and Shaw [co-authors of Crenshaw's book] "took poetic license" on this issue. Crenshaw "admitted . . .that the role he played in Kennedy's case was minor." See the Times of May 26, 1992.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/crenshaw.htm

Indeed the trauma room at Parkland seems to have been very crowded that day.

There must have be three hundred people who claim there were in there that day, and there's no way that could be true. It's interesting that those of us who were intimately involved don't talk about it, and the others do.

Dr. Malcolm Perry (Posner, p. 291 footnote)

In fact it's amazing that all those people Robert quotes got such a good look at the "exit wound" on the back of Kennedy's head since Kennedy's body was never turned over at Parkland Hospital during the frantic attempts to resuscitate him. (Posner, p. 288) Or even after Kennedy was dead.

"When we decided to declare him dead," says [Dr.Pepper] Jenkins, people just started to fade away... With Mrs. Kennedy there, we were not about to start examining the wounds or turning the body over. No one even lifted the head, although a few doctors passed by and quickly looked at the wound." (Posner, p. 292)

More on Crenshaw here. More on the Parkland head wound witnesses here.

Tomtomkent · Nov 8, 2011

I'm trying to dig out some info on Best Evidence. The title rings a bell and i am thinking it might have been the book with the insane final act where JFK had his wounds "reconstructed" between hospital and the autopsy to match the LHO "story". Is that the one or has my foggy memory confused it with a different hack job. Of no importance to the (lack of) quality of evidence of course.

Walter Ego · Nov 8, 2011

Tomtomkent said:
I'm trying to dig out some info on Best Evidence. The title rings a bell and i am thinking it might have been the book with the insane final act where JFK had his wounds "reconstructed" between hospital and the autopsy to match the LHO "story". Is that the one or has my foggy memory confused it with a different hack job. Of no importance to the (lack of) quality of evidence of course.

Your memory is correct.

David S. Lifton's lengthy 1980 pro-conspiracy JFK book "Best Evidence: Disguise And Deception In The Assassination Of John F. Kennedy" spells out a fantastically-absurd theory of casket-switching, body-snatching, and head-altering surgery that was supposedly performed on the badly-damaged cranium of assassinated President John F. Kennedy by a group of unnamed conspiratorial surgeons prior to JFK's official autopsy at Bethesda Naval Medical Center near Washington, D.C., on the night of Kennedy's murder.

http://best-evidence.blogspot.com/

JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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