Merged Electric Sun Theory (Split from: CME's, active regions and high energy flares)

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GeeMack said:
So moving forward with everyone in agreement that magnetic reconnection exists and is a reasonable explanation for the energy release in solar flares and for the heating of the corona...
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Nope. We all agree that current reconnection happens. CURRENTS ARE INDUCED based on changes to the B field. So what if INDUCTION HAPPENS? That has NOTHING to do with B field lines ENDING, DISCONNECTING, and then RECONNECTING to some other B line again. Any change in the B field flux will indeed INDUCE E fields according to pretty much EVERYONE.
 
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Michael Mozina said:
Nope. We all agree that CURRENTS ARE INDUCED based on changes to the B field. So what if INDUCTION HAPPENS? That has NOTHING to do with B field lines ENDING, DISCONNECTING, and then RECONNECTING to some other B line again. Any change in the B field flux will indeed INDUCE E fields according to pretty much EVERYONE.
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Oh, for a minute there it looked like Somov's work was being offered as an acceptable source on the issue of solar physics. Apparently not. We wouldn't, of course, want to cherry pick some individual words and phrases from Somov while neglecting what amounts to the gist of the remaining body of his work.
 
GeeMack said:
Oh, for a minute there it looked like Somov's work was being offered as an acceptable source on the issue of solar physics. Apparently not. We wouldn't, of course, want to cherry pick some individual words and phrases from Somov while neglecting what amounts to the gist of the remaining body of his work.
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Pffft. You're the one ignoring Chapter 16 *ENTIRELY*, cherry picking ONE OR TWO SENTENCES out of his book, and ignoring the rest of the book! That's because you're evidently all too cheap to actually buy a book on plasma physics and learn anything about plasma physics. "Electrical discharges in plasma? What discharges?" Oy Vey. :)
 
tusenfem said:
wow did you learn a few more words to capitalize?
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You're right. I'm getting carried away these days. I guess I'm just frustrated because between the three primary haters in the thread (GM, RC and Clinger), not a single one of them has read a single plasma physics text book to my knowledge, so not a single one of them understands that electrical discharges can and do occur in plasmas. The whole conversation is a little surreal from my perspective.

Clinger is over there trying to get something from nothing in terms of kinetic energy, and trying desperately *NOT* to induce any E fields at that X point. :) He's literally painting himself into a zero energy corner just to AVOID inducing an E field and AVOID that "electrical discharge" Dungey talks about.

It's really frustrating arguing with creationists and EU haters that refuse to educate themselves and that are too cheap and too lazy to read a related textbook. After awhile I guess I start shouting. ;)
 
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Belz... said:
Are you okay ? "Might" includes "might not", you know ?
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You know Belz....

It's entirely possible that after reading Dungey's paper or Paratt's quote, or any of the other references that I've provided that you'll come to understand and accept the fact that electrical discharges can and do occur in plasmas. That *SINGLE* revelation/piece of knowledge would put you way ahead of every EU hater in this thread.

For all I know you could end up becoming a very powerful and educated ally. Like I said, I'm willing to risk it. You seem like a pretty intelligent guy.
 
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Michael Mozina said:
The whole conversation is a little surreal from my perspective.
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Imagine how it looks to people who know a little physics.

Michael Mozina said:
It's really frustrating arguing with creationists and EU haters that refuse to educate themselves
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That's funny.

You can't stop anyone from being wrong on the Internet.

[size=-2](Except, perhaps, by not saying anything on the Internet.)[/size]
 
W.D.Clinger said:
Imagine how it looks to people who know a little physics.


That's funny.

You can't stop anyone from being wrong on the Internet.

[size=-2](Except, perhaps, by not saying anything on the Internet.)[/size]
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I'm still waiting to see how you get kinetic energy out of a couple of zero points in a magnetic field, without induction and without current. Aren't you done yet?
 
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W.D.Clinger said:
Imagine how it looks to people who know a little physics.
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FYI, in your case the term 'little' is the operative word. I doubt you've ever read a single plasma physics textbook in your entire life. If you had done so, you'd already realize that you're going to NEED to induce an E field at that X point to get any kinetic energy. You'd already know that currents reconnect at that X point, and you'd already know that electrical discharges occur in plasmas.
 
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Michael Mozina said:
W.D.Clinger said:
Imagine how it looks to people who know a little physics.
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FYI, in your case the term 'little' is the operative word. I doubt you've ever read a single plasma physics textbook in your entire life. If you had done so, you'd already realize that you're going to NEED to induce an E field at that X point to get any kinetic energy.
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If I knew a little physics, I might know that the energy density of a magnetic field B in vacuum is B·B/(2μ0), regardless of any E field that may or may not be present. I might also know that this energy can be converted into kinetic energy by the Lorentz force acting on charged particles that move through the B field, once again regardless of any E field that may or may not be present.

Unfortunately, I refuse to educate myself as Michael Mozina recommends. To be fair, I cannot deny that Michael Mozina's approach to education has achieved the results seen in his posts.
 
W.D.Clinger said:
If I knew a little physics, I might know that .......
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If you knew a little bit about plasma physics, you might know that electrical discharges occur in plasmas. You don't know that much. You might know that an E field is INDUCED at that X point. Since you don't seem to know these two very BASIC things, it's been a problem communicating with you. When did you intend to acknowledge the FACT that electrical discharges occur in plasmas?
 
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Michael Mozina said:
It's entirely possible that after reading Dungey's paper [...]
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James Dungey was one of the pioneers in the development of the magnetic reconnection concept as it applies to solar physics. But since it would be dishonest and wholly unscientific to cherry pick some individual words and phrases from Dungey's research to argue against magnetic reconnection, while neglecting much of the remaining body of his work which described and fully supported the science of magnetic reconnection, maybe we should just discard his work entirely.
 
GeeMack said:
James Dungey was one of the pioneers in the development of the magnetic reconnection concept as it applies to solar physics.
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Yep and he explained that electrical discharges occur in plasmas during that "process".

But since it would be dishonest and wholly unscientific to cherry pick some individual words and phrases from Dungey's research to argue against magnetic reconnection,
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You're like the minister of disinformation. I'm arguing FOR 'current reconnection', "induced E fields" and those pesky parts of plasma physics which you personally know NOTHING about.

while neglecting much of the remaining body of his work which described and fully supported the science of magnetic reconnection, maybe we should just discard his work entirely.
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I embrace ALL of his work GM, including those electrical discharges and those induced E fields at the X point, not just one word that you happen to like from his work, aka "reconnection".
 
GeeMack said:
Good, then we're back to where we all agree that magnetic reconnection exists
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Nope. I only agree that "current reconnection', 'induced E fields' and "electrical discharges" occur at that x point. The PROCESS has a stupid name. That wasn't Dungey's fault.
 
W.D.Clinger said:
I might also know that this energy can be converted into kinetic energy by the Lorentz force acting on charged particles that move through the B field, once again regardless of any E field that may or may not be present.
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I missed this statement earlier.

Um, I hate to burst your bubble, but "What charged particles"? You claimed to do your 'reconnection' magic in a "vacuum" didn't you?
 
Michael Mozina said:
Nope. I only agree that "current reconnection', 'induced E fields' and "electrical discharges" occur at that x point. The PROCESS has a stupid name. That wasn't Dungey's fault.
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So magnetic reconnection has a stupid name, but that wasn't Dungey's fault. Who was it that coined the name "magnetic reconnection"?
 
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