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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Also innocentisti do that, as they cite Guede's testimony about a time of death around 9:30.

I don't see what's wrong with cherry picking his statements. His estimation for when Meredith was attacked is reliable as it's unlikely he would have been confused by an unrelated scream since he was there at the cottage when the murder went down. Further, he had no reason to fabricate the time of the attack because his TOD gives the ones he falsely accused an alibi (the electronic opening of Naruto at Raff's house). Plus, his TOD is consistent with the scientific evidence concerning Meredith's digestive state. The same can not be said for Nara's TOD. She wasn't there at the crime scene, so there is no way to tell if the scream she heard came from Meredith or from an unrelated woman. Recall the "blond Italian" who had been seen washing his hands of blood at a fountain, yelling "I killed her", the morning after the murder. That could have been incriminating for Raff since he fits that description. It turned out that it was unrelated. Mere coincidence. It's very possible that the scream Nara heard is also unrelated and merely coincidental. Rudy's TOD, on the other hand, is corroborated by scientific evidence and by the fact that he was there and had no reason to falsify his TOD. I'll take that over the anonymous screams that were reported at a later time.
 
Toshiba and Knox's drive

Except Mach is stating the drives were not destroyed and data was recovered. I've not heard or read anything, anywhere, that would support that which is why I asked for a link.

As for incompetence and/or corruption.. as noted a million times; no lawyer, no recording, destroy drives, one and done DNA tests, deliberately lying to elicit desired responses, etc. Mignini's criminal record speaks for itself. Preston and Spezi's experiences with Mignini a year earlier was all I needed to consider Knox's accusations as credible.
TruthCalls,
Knox's team asked the court to release her drive to Toshiba, but they were turned down. I think it would have been wise to get an independent expert to examine all of the computer forensics of this case.
 
People heard a scream, a clue or no big deal?
No one saw a white male who looked like Harry Potter and a white chick running away, nor how they were dressed. For all we know, anyone of any color skin could have made that scream.

Maybe it even had something to do with the crazy dude that was found the next morning with blood on him, heard saying something such as "I killed her".
Long time followers of the case will have heard of him...

RW

Good point. The screams reported by Nara and the other witness could easily be coincidental. Their testimony is not reliable as a TOD.

On the other hand, we have a TOD given by the rapist of Meredith that is consistent with the scientific evidence concerning her digestive state. That's reliable.
 
<snip>
From court testimony: "From about 4pm or 4:30pm onwards, Meredith Kercher spent the evening with her English friends Robyn Butterworth, Amy Frost and Sophie Purton. They prepared and ate a pizza, looked at Halloween photos from the previous evening, watched part of a film and prepared and ate an apple crumble.". The sequence of events was provided by the witnesses. We agree on the meal beginning at 6pm (18:00). No one suggested Meredith stood around and watched everyone else eat. Of course the prosecution wants to stretch things out as far as possible, but it's not realistic to think Meredith waited two hours after everyone else to eat pizza. And there is still the matter of looking at photos, watching part of a two hour movie and then preparing and eating apple crumble, which isn't a 10 minute task. They left the house at 8:45'ish, so stretching out Meredith's first bite of food to 20:00 simply isn't logical.
<snip>


You know what I find incredibly hard to believe?
It's that none of the English gals, who were all warm and cozy inside an apartment, and had a laptop turned on and available to tell the time with, can not do so specifically with enough accuracy to pinpoint the exact time they ate dinner and then later, when they started to cook that apple crumble.

And these gals were not even drinking, nor smoking a THC laced spinello, nor even using heroin.
These gals were interviewed by police the very next day! And they couldn't even get the time exactly right when Mignini traveled to Bergamo, in northern Italy, to interview the gals. Nor could they do so when in court.

But a bench park bum, high on opium, who did not tell the cops that very next day that he saw a guy who looked like Harry Potter and a gal standing around, and arguing the night of the murder, was able to state in court that this happened at exactly 9:27/9:28pm, because he, a guy high on smack who really has no where to go, just happened to have looked at his watch at that exact time.

I don't believe it.
This guy even forgot to wear this watch, or any other on the day that he had to go to court to testify. Wouldn't he want to show up on time?
"Hmmm, it's 8:00 o'clock, big day today, time to roll up my blankets and head over to the courthouse."

Toto's testimony is bull crap...
 
I don't see why anyone is so interested in people who only claim to have heard something anyway. No matter what they heard, they have nothing to contribute as regards who made the sound, and thus cannot implicate Knox and/'or Sollecito.

Rolfe.
 
TruthCalls,
Knox's team asked the court to release her drive to Toshiba, but they were turned down. I think it would have been wise to get an independent expert to examine all of the computer forensics of this case.

Quick question: when the Supreme Court has confirmed the acquittals, will Amanda and Raffaelle have their belongings (specifically their laptops) returned to them?
 
Edited by kmortis: 
Removed personal comment and comments about previously moderated material
 
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Somebody mentioned that the PMFers were having a great time with the Jayna Murray murder. Check this out:

"Now, evidence of Jayna's 331 injuries came to light as Dr. Ripple walked members of the courtroom through abrasions, bruises and deep cuts found on her body."

331 injuries. But just one killer.
 
Somebody mentioned that the PMFers were having a great time with the Jayna Murray murder. Check this out:

"Now, evidence of Jayna's 331 injuries came to light as Dr. Ripple walked members of the courtroom through abrasions, bruises and deep cuts found on her body."

331 injuries. But just one killer.
Exactly. I do not know why they are focusing on this murder of Jayna Murray, because it disproves wholly the 3 on 1 attack. Oh, they are also gleefully conjecturing that Amanda stole money from Kercher for drugs. They seem to be reworking old ground. I thought Knox had 4K in her account???:eye-poppi
 
Quick question: when the Supreme Court has confirmed the acquittals, will Amanda and Raffaelle have their belongings (specifically their laptops) returned to them?

That's a good question, but I'm also still confused over the state of the hard drives for these machines. Were they or were they not destroyed? Or did the prosecution simply not allow the defense access to examine them (which I would think would be illegal)?
 
Somebody mentioned that the PMFers were having a great time with the Jayna Murray murder. Check this out:

"Now, evidence of Jayna's 331 injuries came to light as Dr. Ripple walked members of the courtroom through abrasions, bruises and deep cuts found on her body."

331 injuries. But just one killer.


I haven't been following this thread closely, but I am speechless that anyone anywhere would somehow try to compare the Lululemon murder in D.C. to Perugia. Brittany Norwood butchered her coworker by striking more than 300 blows with numerous objects, then staged an elaborate (and implausible) coverup that included using a pair of men's shoes to track blood all over the store. Her questioning by police was tape-recorded, and her provably false statements were part of the record against her. After she confessed and was charged, she and her lawyers never claimed that she wasn't guilty; the only issue at her trial was whether she committed premeditated murder or second-degree murder (whether she "just snapped," in her own lawyer's words). Anyone who sees anything to compare in the two cases is delusional beyond words.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...jayna-murray/2011/11/02/gIQAXdFvgM_print.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...p-fall-apart/2011/11/01/gIQA1GpudM_print.html
 
I haven't been following this thread closely, but I am speechless that anyone anywhere would somehow try to compare the Lululemon murder in D.C. to Perugia. Brittany Norwood butchered her coworker by striking more than 300 blows with numerous objects, then staged an elaborate (and implausible) coverup that included using a pair of men's shoes to track blood all over the store. Her questioning by police was tape-recorded, and her provably false statements were part of the record against her. After she confessed and was charged, she and her lawyers never claimed that she wasn't guilty; the only issue at her trial was whether she committed premeditated murder or second-degree murder (whether she "just snapped," in her own lawyer's words). Anyone who sees anything to compare in the two cases is delusional beyond words.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...jayna-murray/2011/11/02/gIQAXdFvgM_print.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...p-fall-apart/2011/11/01/gIQA1GpudM_print.html

But, see, here is the desperation of their logic, fueled by its secret animus:
  • Brittany Norwood is from Seattle
  • Brittany Norwood played soccor
  • Brittany Norwood liked yoga
  • The above 3 are true of Knox
  • Norwood stabbed a female co-worker over an argument involving theft
Ergo, we now KNOW the theory that it all began with Kercher, Guede, Knox and Sollecito over "a row over money" is true!!! Mystery SOLVED; Hellman was WRONG!!!
 
Machiavelli, the prosecution lost. That means their attempting to ignore the 9:26 opening of Naruto highly likely lost as well, it's pretty damned straight forward.

No, it doesn’t mean the “Naruto evidence” was accepted. If there is a mention of this in the motivation report, this could make the verdict invalid.
But even if it were accepted, this is not an alibi.


[/QUOTE]What possible indication might you have that somehow the Hellmann Motivations Report will ignore Naruto?
I bet they may ignore it in the motivation report, just like Massei did. They may ignore it if it was missing in the first defense computer report, because the second report was not admitted.

Did you ever post a link or evidence that they specifically denied the appeal addendum with the screensaver and keyboard light data?

Oh no, I didn’t post an “evidence”. I myself don’t need evidence for things that I know :)


What matters is when she had her first bite, thus for that testimony it would be 6:00 PM that mattered. There was nothing in her duodenum, that's the first stop after the stomach, thus the moment she swallows, the clock starts on that first bite, …

This is the theory, the doctrine to which all innocentisti cling: only the first bite, the rest doesn’t matter. Sorry if I flatly reject the doctrine. This theory is simply unsupported in scientific literature. This is a standard belief but not ascertained at all in the way you formulate it. There is not a proof that the subsequent assumption of food at close timings does not interfere in any way with the starting of counting. If you have literature that deal with this experimental evidence that would be an interesting reading. But there isn’t any: simply, the stomach isn’t a clock. The start of counting from the first bite is a praxis, based on some standard assumptions. But it is not something really binding to the functioning of the stomach. Just as many organs, the organs of the digestive system can be “used” in varying individualized styles. You should not decide yourself which equation has to be considered true as a mathematic result, without the backing of any real experimental research.
The time of death is uncertain. LJ’s charts report the results of experiments under a number of controlled conditions on a limited scope. Literature reports about mistakes of 12 hours based on this assumptions on stomach emptying time criterion. The assertion that the death should be around 21:00 is unsupported, unproven. Whatever anyone poster or judge believes about it, this will not work as a demonstration.


All of which showed evidence of Rudy Guede in the murder room! Imagine that!

Also showed evidence of multiple assailants, DNA of Sollecito on the bra clasp, Sollecito’s footprint in blood in the bathroom, mixed DNA traces of blood in the bathroom and other rooms, Amanda’s blood in the bathroom, no possible logical scenario to explain the isolated blood footprint attributing it to Rudy, no trace of Rudy in the bathroom nor in FIlomena’s room, and so on.


However it's too late, Toto is in jail, with all things considered he's probably a contender for the least credible witness in the history of man.

Curatolo is not in jail! He is free and he is ok.


Then do one for 11:00 PM. Incidentally, there were no disco buses on the 1st, you did that before, conflating Halloween and All Saint's Day like they didn't matter. Where is any evidence there were disco buses on the 1st?

There were testimonies saying there were disco buses running on that day. Other disco owners and other witnesses working at the service did testify there were disco buses. But his is not the point we have to demonstrate.

He was claiming to have been there when the murder happened, if he wanted anyone to believe his story he couldn't be lying about details that could possibly conflict with other evidence, like if the police had properly weighed the body and took the temperature, if anyone had heard a scream and noted the time exactly, or anyone had seen him leave. There's no reason to put himself there at the wrong time, especially when he was telling the story.

In fact, it’s exactly as you say: there is no reason for him to lie about the timing.
But he could be wrong, because he has not many points of reference, especially as he infers about the time when they probably left.
 
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Mach earlier you said that no shopkeeper would tell the truth and become involved in a case when you defended the fact that Quintavalle didn't tell the police about seeing Amanda when questioned the week of the murder.

So he should be charged, correct?

If he actually did tell a lie, and if anyone can prove it.
 
One heard a couple arguing in Italian before the scream. Would you suggest that was Amanda and Raffaele? Or Rudy and Meredith? Or ???

Nara didn't report the scream for months and only came to the attention of the police because she went on TV. She had no real idea of what time it was. It is very doubtful she could hear the running with the windows closed but Massei wouldn't test it Why not? It should be tested and she should be charged with false denunciation if the running can't be heard.

...

No, Nara reported regularly to the procura. She also spoke about what she heared immediately, just two days after, to her friends.
I already explained why her timing is meaningful.
I think Nara is a totally credible witness, this to me is undisputable, and I feel insinuations aimed to discredit her as offensive.

About the "one" who heard a scream, that was Antonella Monacchia. Of course I think the voices were Meredith and Guede or the other two.
 
If he actually did tell a lie, and if anyone can prove it.

Mach, he told the investigator that he hadn't seen Raffaele or Amanda the morning of the murder discovery. It's in Massei. He later says he did see her.

He lied at least once.

Maybe Patrick did kill Meredith can you prove he didn't. Perhaps, she wasn't killed until 3am and he didn't have an alibi for then, did he?
 
Well, everything was recovered except what the cops had already overwritten when they were surfing the web. And only some of the remaining "recovered" stuff was read, by an idiot, who didn't know where to look or what he was reading.

The cops? Why not what Raffaele had overwitten when he surfed the internet from nov. 2 to nov 5.?
 
No, Nara reported regularly to the procura. She also spoke about what she heared immediately, just two days after, to her friends.
I already explained why her timing is meaningful.
I think Nara is a totally credible witness, this to me is undisputable, and I feel insinuations aimed to discredit her as offensive.

About the "one" who heard a scream, that was Antonella Monacchia. Of course I think the voices were Meredith and Guede or the other two.

Nara didn't report the scream immediately. What does it mean that she reported regularly to the procura? Was she also a professional witness?
 
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