Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

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RandFan said:
Look, I think it fair to bring up and criticize so long as you don't use it as McCarthy did to try and make everyone guilty by association. The idea that you must be opposed to the movement or you identify with the iconography is a fallacy.
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That wasn't the idea I was pushing either. What tends to happen in the sorts of populist movements is the organizational leaders use the public outcry as the momentum to push their own agendas. I think some of their demands are out of touch with reality, but as I was going on with towards the Tea Party movement, I sure as hell hope the protestors can self-police themselves. This anti-wallstreet sentiment can get into hardline territory way too easily.
 
RandFan said:
No, it's the right authorities. Even with Sachs considerable power (I've read just about everything Taibbi has written and I don't think that is his take) regardless the US has the ability, if it had the will, to do something about it. If Teddy Roosevelt could break up monopolies then we can do it now. We just have to convince our legislature that we matter more than the money of Sachs. That's not an easy thing to do and that's Taibbi's point. Sachs can spend billions on politicians and still that would be a fraction of its wealth. Money well spent if it brings in billions more.
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Insomuch as he thinks that Goldman Sachs is a super villain capable of building and busting massive bubbles he is an idiot, link.
 
Alt+F4 said:
And with the exception of the Google Revolution these other revolutions were violent and resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of persons.
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Thank you, yes, EXACTLY. And we don't need a violent revolution now. We just need the politicians to take OWS seriously. "Let them eat cake" will most certainly prolong the suffering and might have foreseen consequences.

OWS is not advocating violent revolution, they don't want to fix, reform or make government/society better, they want to replace government/society with their particular form of communism which they try to spin as "direct democracy".
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{sigh}

Okay, I see. You are their spokesperson. You know all. Got it.

This is just like the CT forum.
 
respect said:
Insomuch as he thinks that Goldman Sachs is a super villain capable of building and busting massive bubbles he is an idiot, link.
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Oh wow, you dug up someone who disagrees with Taibbi and THAT makes him an idiot. Sorry, not going to fly.

I should add, I think it more than fair to add the critique to the discussion. I wish you would actually read it and make a point to show you understand Taibbi's argument and the author's rebuttal. But then that wasn't your intent was it?
 
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Grizzly Bear said:
That wasn't the idea I was pushing either. What tends to happen in the sorts of populist movements is the organizational leaders use the public outcry as the momentum to push their own agendas. I think some of their demands are out of touch with reality, but as I was going on with towards the Tea Party movement, I sure as hell hope the protestors can self-police themselves. This anti-wallstreet sentiment can get into hardline territory way too easily.
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Fair enough. Thank you.
 
RandFan said:
I don't buy that. It's a statistical thing. I think to survive the status quo just need continue. Things getting worse will simply increase the likelyhood of its survival.

Odd thing is, I would VERY MUCH like for things to get better and OWS die. That would make me happy. Are the powers that be likely to actually do something to fix anything? That's the important question.

I honestly don't think most politicians give a damn about anything or anyone except the people who pay for their campaigns and what the people who pay for their campaigns want. Sadly most campaign money comes from those who want the status quo. Those who don't give a rats ass about people out of work.

God forbid that the rich should sacrifice one goddamn dime more than they already are. Because we all know that for the rich there is no such thing as enough.
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I don't know about this. Rumour has it Bill Gates is personally trying to wipe out malaria across the globe. I think that's at least as, if not more, important than a slightly higher than expected unemployment rate.

Your third paragraph highlights something very easily repaired. See, I don't think the 1% are these wicked phantom CEOs. The real "other" 1% are those who are unemployed beyond an acceptable level of unemployment. There "should" be about an 8% unemployment rate but it sits around 9% right now in the US. It's that little sliver percentage-wise that creates the illusion that everything's all ********** up.

Whether it's by government action, natural recovery, business investment, dropping trade barriers, or other tweaks, that 1% "unnatural" unemployment will be patched up and everyone will pack up their tents and go home. The difference in terms of "real change" is so small that it's likely undetectable.
 
RandFan said:
Oh wow, you dug up someone who disagrees with Taibbi and THAT makes him an idiot. Sorry, not going to fly.

I should add, I think it more than fair to add the critique to the discussion. I wish you would actually read it and make a point to show you understand Taibbi's argument and the author's rebuttal. But then that wasn't your intent was it?
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If I am to explain all of her criticisms of his hit piece in my own words it would make citing it rather pointless, but why waste all of that time typing it out when she has already done such a good job?
 
Alt+F4 said:
Yes, I am their spokesperson. So are you, Ketchup and the guy that wrote "V for Vendetta". We are the 99%!
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That's not in good faith. Everyone has the right to speak from themselves. The issue at hand is that no person gets to speak for everyone else. A group might elect a spokesperson for that group. As far as I know you speak for yourself.
 
respect said:
Insomuch as he thinks that Goldman Sachs is a super villain capable of building and busting massive bubbles he is an idiot, link.
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Inasmuch that Taibbi is asking that Wall St. be held accountable for its part in the crisis, the author of the piece you quoted is in agreement with him:

Which is not to say that I disagree with Taibbi's project. Wall Street is an arrogant beast that more than held up its half of the devil's bargain which drove us into our current ugly straits. Bankers who thought they were geniuses were deceived by models that assumed away the possibility of a second great depression. They made a terrifying amount of money doing it. And now that the taxpayers have bailed them out at considerable expense, we don't even get a goddamn fruit basket. Instead they merrily go along paying themselves gigantic bonuses for the singular feat of not driving our economy entirely back to the stone age. I think some populist rage is more than warranted.
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My bold.
 
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Democracy Simulator said:
Inasmuch that Taibbi is asking that Wall St. be held accountable for its part in the crisis, the author of the piece you quoted is in agreement with him:



My bold.
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Right, pointing out errors in his claims does not require that the person pointing them out be in disagreement with him on every possible issue.
 
stilicho said:
I keep forgetting this thing is in the US Politics forum. That's why everyone's proposing US solutions. But there are Occupy Whatevers all over the place except in the communist countries where everyone's apparently very pleased with the economic situation.

Shouldn't this thread be in Social Affairs or Economics/True Crime or something? Sports? Humour?
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I keep forgetting that too, then I catch myself and try not to dump in too much occupy Canada stuff

Oops, can't resist.

According to a report on the radio this morning, our local occupy Victoria group had to call the police 8 times this past weekend. They've been letting the homeless hang around but the drug use is getting to be a little too much.

The cops say it's a confusing situation, they have campers calling them to evict other campers.

Umm yea, that "on Indian time thing" Bikerdurid will clear that up for us.
 
respect said:
If I am to explain all of her criticisms...
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I didn't ask for that. It's easy to argue via link especially when you are not even able to understand the content of the link. All I ask is that instead of posting a link in drive by fashion that you actually demonstrate that you understand the article in question. Do you?
 
respect said:
Right, pointing out errors in his claims does not require that the person pointing them out be in disagreement with him on every possible issue.
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Well, hang on, you did conclude that Taibbi is an idiot. If your source otherwise agrees with Taibbi it calls into question the conclusion. Perhaps you could have noted that Taibbi isn't always right and capable of error. What do you think?

Otherwise your point seems to simply be poisoning the well. Taibbi is wrong about X therefore Taibbi is an idiot and we can't trust him on anything else. Right?
 
Vichy Oakland continues to attempt collaboration:

To add to the confusion, the Administration issued a memo on Friday, October 28th to all City workers in support of the “Stop Work” strike scheduled for Wednesday, giving all employees, except for police officers, permission to take the day off.

That’s hundreds of City workers encouraged to take off work to participate in the protest against “the establishment.” But aren’t the Mayor and her Administration part of the establishment they are paying City employees to protest? Is it the City’s intention to have City employees on both sides of a skirmish line?
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As the officers go on to note, Oakland is in the midst of a budget crunch and trying to get property owners to agree to an increase in property taxes. At the same time, they are encouraging city employees to take a free day off tomorrow and support the occupying force, which has already pledged to attempt to shut down any businesses that try to remain open.

All banks and corporations should close down for the day or we will march on them.
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So not only are banks and corporations being forced to pay additional property taxes to help finance a free day off for Oakland's workers, but they will be forced to pay their own people to take the day off as well.

Hilarious.
 
How you are getting screwed (unless you are rich).

So, GDP is up. Corporate profits are up. The rich are getting richer. And the middle to lower class? Drum roll please.....


income.jpg


That's right. You are getting hosed by a system that is set up to hose you. But laugh at OWS and it will make you fell better. Why are you getting hosed?

The Top 1% Vs YOU

 
Brainster said:
So not only are banks and corporations being forced to pay additional property taxes to help finance a free day off for Oakland's workers, but they will be forced to pay their own people to take the day off as well.
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Poor, poor banks. Damn. To think, we bail them out and they use that money to pay their management huge bonuses and how do we pay them back...

Wait, what?
 
respect said:
Right, pointing out errors in his claims does not require that the person pointing them out be in disagreement with him on every possible issue.
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Indeed, I just thought that it would be worthwhile to point out Megan McArdle's thoughts about Wall Street, as you seem to hold her economic analysis in some esteem.
 
Those rich kids sleeping in the park are probably closer to the 1% than they realize.
 
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