Religion is not evil

[Nicole Friedman]

Yet, you know about it, how is that?

No, I don't. I'm just open to the possibility.

 

[the PC apeman]

That's semantics; the lack of a belief is a belief that something is not there.

Dear, dear, dear. Perhaps now is a good time to review the rules about holes.

 

[Nicole Friedman]

If someone came up to me and told me that a dead loved one was in heaven, that person also would not know what exists after death, for the same reason. That person would also be trying to take away the comfort I feel in accepting death immediately, rather than going into denial where I'd need to drag out the stages of grief.

Unfortunately, many theists think that because atheism wouldn't provide comfort and closure to them, then the way I as an atheist deal with grief must be irrelevant and worthy of no respect.

Do you think theists usually avoid telling an atheist that his recently-deceased loved one is in heaven?

Do you think I would be justified in punching a theist in the face, if they did tell me that?

Or are only theists allowed to silence others with violence, when they feel like it?

You are not the only one to assume things I have never said on this forum. Obviously it goes both ways! If someone who knows you're an atheist tries to tell you that your loved one is in heaven while you're trying to grieve in the way that you're comfortable with, that person is an a-hole, and yes, they would deserve a punch in the face:} I didn't say that verbatim before because it seems common sense to me that no matter what you believe, you need to be as considerate as possible to someone who is grieving.

 

[westprog]

By reading all the posts you have made to protect religion, i can tell you are already to far gone from the brainwashing, .

The world is full of crazy people who just refuse to SEE THINGS THE RIGHT WAY. They must be BRAINWASHED. HAVE TO BE.

 

[Cleon]

No, atheism is not a religion. That doesn't seem to stop some people from treating it like one, though.

 

[Mudcat]

OK when people think that looking at archaeological historical evidence to prove or disprove God is a good idea

I never said it was a good idea nor do I think it is. You can only use archaeological historical evidence to examine the Bible itself and it's historical claims. God will require a separate science that doesn't exist yet and might never exist and even should it exist I doubt the question of God will ever be settled

then I know that they have absolutely no idea what religion and myth are. Unfortunately, that's most people.

Mythology is the anthropomorphized stories told by early man in order to suss out a world that confused them, frightened them and otherwise was outside the grasp of their reasoning.... I miss anything?

 

[Nicole Friedman]

Archeological and historical evidence point toward that the exodus is a mythical event that never took place in history. What do you make of that?

Pharaohs obviously used slaves for their labor force. The Hebrews lived close by. Even if there was no story of an exodus, common sense says that minimally there was some kind of contact between the two groups. Furthermore, Pharaohs were known for erasing embarressing moments from their history; Hatshepsut's son went about destroying/altering many of her obelisks and statues as soon as he took power. If a large group of slaves escaped, it seems logical that the Pharaoh at the time, be it Ramses II or someone else, tried to eradicate any evidence of it. As for archaeological evidence of biblical characters, archaeologists have recently found what they think may be Sodom & Gamorah for starters. Also, keep in mind that the Torah was passed down orally for years prior to being written down. Combined with the fact that the Passover story has been shared annually for several thousand years, my gut says that there is some truth to the story; probably not the parting of the Red Sea (which probably was a mistranslation anyhow- many believe it was really the sea of reeds), but certainly the idea that the Hebrews were slaves in Egypt is very plausible.
Aside from that, the question of whether or not the characters or stories from the Torah or any other scripture really is not important. They were not meant to be taken literally; if you take them literally you miss the beautiful ideas and metaphor. Of course you can pick any scripture apart and find things that you don't like or don't agree with, or that only made sense 1000s of years ago- I personally do not believe in putting someone to death for not obeying the sabbath, polygamy or keeping slaves. However, the idea that there is a right and wrong, that there is a deeper meaning to life- those are beautiful ideas that stand the test of time. Proving that Adam and Eve didn't actually exist misses the entire point.

 

[Limbo]

... I miss anything?

Pretty much everything.

My advice, which people never take, is to step away from the computer for a while and read the books I gave you...

 

[RedRatSnake]

The world is full of crazy people who just refuse to SEE THINGS THE RIGHT WAY. They must be BRAINWASHED. HAVE TO BE.

LOL The right way ? what believing in a church as a salvation to something, i don't think i need salvation from anything, you get one life to live and i am not spending it worshiping burning candles so i can have a better next one, this one is just fine and i'll take full advantage of it.

 

[jiggeryqua]

As far as I am aware, there is no significant religion on this planet that teaches that there may be 'something' in the universe that we do not know anything about but we have no way of knowing anything at all about it and therefore we shouldn't draw any conclusions about it or what it did or didn't do or does or doesn't want or how its existence or non-existence might or might not impact on our lives.

The Tao that can be known is not the true Tao.

 

[dlorde]

As for your comment that more and more people are becoming secular... I think it's that more and more people are turning away from organized religion. That does not necessarily mean that they don't believe in a higher power or have faith in something. Case in point; I've been teaching global history for 8+ years. Every year I get to teach religion (probably my favorite topic of the entire curriculum). I always survey my students- I usually have one or two fervent atheists, a couple of agnostics... but the majority of my students every single year seem to believe in something. As I teach in NYC, their beliefs tend to be diverse; I usually have a mix of different types of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, even a few Buddhists! The diversity of their beliefs is fascinating to me and to my students; they usually enjoy learning about each other.

Your personal experience may not a reliable guide to the decline of country or world-wide religious belief. Try googling for 'increase in secularism' and you'll find plenty of evidence that contradicts it.

To imagine a future classroom where everyone believes the same thing, whether it's atheism or Judaism or Christianity just strikes me as wrong.

It strikes me as wrong that if only one of those worldviews is correct, so many people believe deeply in something that is false.

 

[Resume]

Aside from that, the question of whether or not the characters or stories from the Torah or any other scripture really is not important. They were not meant to be taken literally

There are millions of sincere believers that would disagree with you vehemently.

 

[dlorde]

.. the lack of a belief is a belief that something is not there.

No. Just.. no.

 

[Resume]

However, the idea that there is a right and wrong, that there is a deeper meaning to life- those are beautiful ideas that stand the test of time.

There are volumes of enobling literature that express and explore these same themes much more beautifully than these alleged holy books. Every culture on earth has some to offer.

 

[dlorde]

Religion has influence beyond the doors of the church. I can't believe you seriously think the answer to unpleasant ideas is to let the people who believe them just get on with it unchallenged.

Indeed. There are plenty of answers to 'what's the harm?', even disregarding extremism and fundamentalism. For example: What's The Harm?.

 

[Pup]

You are not the only one to assume things I have never said on this forum. Obviously it goes both ways! If someone who knows you're an atheist tries to tell you that your loved one is in heaven while you're trying to grieve in the way that you're comfortable with, that person is an a-hole, and yes, they would deserve a punch in the face:} I didn't say that verbatim before because it seems common sense to me that no matter what you believe, you need to be as considerate as possible to someone who is grieving.

Then why did you bring up only the one side? Do you think atheists are more apt to disrespect theists who've lost loved ones, than vice versa?

Honestly, the most well-known example of obvious disrespect at funerals that I can think of, comes from the Westboro Baptist Church, who usually target fellow Christians as well as other theists. Fortunately they're considered fringe nutjobs by most people, regardless of faith or lack thereof.

 

[dlorde]

.. keep in mind that the Torah was passed down orally for years prior to being written down. Combined with the fact that the Passover story has been shared annually for several thousand years, my gut says that there is some truth to the story;

Seriously? You feel there may be some truth in it because it's a really really old story?

 

[Mudcat]

Pharaohs obviously used slaves for their labor force.

Yes, and we have evidence for them. We also have evidence for slavery having existence of slavery here in the united states. It is embarrassing and we have every motivation to want to remove the evidence... and yet we still have the evidence for it.

The Hebrews lived close by.

The Hebrews did not live close by, the Canaanites did. The Hebrews were nothing more than Canaanites until long after the time that Exodus was supposed to take place.

Edit: Also the the whole "it was an oral tradition long before it was written" should speak volumes about the reliability of the Torah.

 

[fishbob]

Oh, that wonderful real understanding. If only everyone had the gift.

Hey - if you look for understanding without preconceptions, you at least have a chance of finding some.

 

[The True Scotsman]

If that were what I was talking about, then I would agree. Religious charities use the money they receive (voluntarily) from their congregations - in part - to build toilets in Somalia and help poor families in Cambodia develop their local industries. And for many, the hope is not false.

Well, I apologize if I mistook you're argument. It didn't seem clear to me that paragraph 1 and paragraph 3 of your OP were covering the same concept.