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Religion is not evil

Limbo said:

I don't get.

People have been rapped, tortured, killed, forcibly converted and more in the name of religion. So it can't be both True and False at the same time. This isn't a false dilemma here because if religion is true and right about God than he's one sick fudge. If religion is false than someone owes a hell of an explanation.
 
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I don't get.

People have been rapped, tortured, killed, forcibly converted and more in the name of religion. So it can't be both True and False at the same time. This isn't a false dilemma here because if religion is true and right about God than he's one sick fudge. If religion is false than someone owes a hell of an explanation.


"Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble."
-Joseph Campbell

Read those books I gave you, and you might begin to understand why this is so.
 
Which means that by your logic, religion is merely a tool to help us understand the world around us. Seems like we have a far better one, one where people aren't generally slaughtered for disagreements over metaphores. ;)
 
Why? If someone sincerely believes that a virgin gave birth to a child or that Joseph Smith translated gold tablets or that Xenu blew up billions of beings in volcanoes...there's nothing to respect there. I respect their right to believe it but it's still pretty silly.

You quote the first part of my post, but not the second

Sadly, intolerance and hatred of those who don't share their religious beliefs is the hallmark of many religions. That's the main reason for the blowback.

If they believe these things and still tolerate the beliefs of others (as so, so many do not), then they have my respect. The fact that so many religious people are hopelessly intolerant of other beliefs is the main problem. The OP was a call for tolerance in my view and I applaud it.
 
But religion is wrong. Religious beliefs, that are factual statements, tend to be incorrect.



Do you also respect sincere belief in Norse mythology, or Greek mythology, or Egyptian mythology? If not, then why cherry-picking? Are beliefs based on Jewish mythology somehow special?
Is atheism not a belief?
 
Religion is not, in and of itself, evil. This is true.
It is in fact, quite the opposite (or the idea itself is meant to be)...
The point of religion is to provide comfort to the majority of people who find the notion of death terrifying, and would suffer unendurable grief at the loss of a loved one if not provided with some hope that "there is more!" Religion is meant to provide this hope.

The problem with the system is two-fold. In the first place, religion has progressed from a charming notion to an organized institution with a power structure; and power corrupts. Thus, even if a religion itself is not evil, those at the top of the power hierarchy with the greatest access to the collection plates are likely to become evil, or at the very least, greedy.
Second, and building on that last, there is more than one organized religion. Hence the need to quarrel and squabble and ultimately wage wars over which religion is "correct". The charming notion of "do not despair; there is something else out there" becomes the far more unpalatable "we know the exact name of the something else, and we know he wants you to give your tithes to this religion and no other."

As to a solution to the problem; regrettably, there probably isn't one. The need for hope that lost loved ones are still okay will never be absent from humanity, and as such, religion will never entirely 'go away'. The best that can be hoped for would be making religion into a more individual aspect of life rather than an institutional one (Jesus himself suggested this, see Matthew 6 and 7; but sadly, most of Jesus' biggest fans have never actually read the Bible), or failing that, somehow getting the major religions to declare a cease-fire and admit that there are enough tithes for everyone.

The common tactic of the "Internet Atheist Activist" on the other hand, only makes matters worse. These are the ones who scream and complain that Christians demand everyone else believe the same thing they do, and then they target a Christian and follow him through a dozen threads demanding that he believe nothing. Pointing out things like 'pot and kettle' and 'fight fire with fire' and 'hypocrisy' rarely has any effect except to anger the so-called atheist, and his attacks have no effect on the Christian except to strengthen his existing beliefs with a layer of indignation and self-righteousness.

Atheists need to focus all of their energy not on 'converting' others away from the church, or on 'attacking God' and calling his followers stupid, but merely on making sure the division between church and state remains in place. It is when the churches gain power, enough to influence things like the public education system, and start trying to have their 'beliefs' accepted by the courts as 'laws' that they cross over into what could categorically be defined as evil.
A very thoughtful post.
 
As I have been *sigh* arguing all along, it provides hope and comfort to millions, and practical aid to the poorest. Those 99% occupying everywhere? While I support them and their motives, they have it sweet compared to many thousands in Somalia or Cambodia who have no food or clean water.
Unfortunately many atheists feel that because religion doesn't provide comfort to them, or that they believe that it provides "false" comfort, then religions are automatically irrelevant. First of all, no one can honestly say that religions provide false comfort, for unless you're actually dead, how can you know what exists or doesn't exist after death? Would you go up to a person and tell them that their father who recently died didn't go to heaven or somewhere else, that they're really gone forever? If someone said those words to my husband's face I would punch them out- because taking away a person's hope is just as evil if not more so than some of the things people on this board are accusing religion of. If you do not want religion spreading their dogma, what makes your dogma any better? The problem as others have clearly stated is not necessarily the religions themselves but people who twist religion to their own advantage, or the power structure of organized religions. If everyone in the world were atheists I'm sure that people would be fighting over something else. Weed out the corruption, evil and hate but let people believe what they believe, as you would want to be free to believe in what you believe.
 
Unfortunately many atheists feel that because religion doesn't provide comfort to them, or that they believe that it provides "false" comfort, then religions are automatically irrelevant. First of all, no one can honestly say that religions provide false comfort, for unless you're actually dead, how can you know what exists or doesn't exist after death? Would you go up to a person and tell them that their father who recently died didn't go to heaven or somewhere else, that they're really gone forever? If someone said those words to my husband's face I would punch them out- because taking away a person's hope is just as evil if not more so than some of the things people on this board are accusing religion of. If you do not want religion spreading their dogma, what makes your dogma any better? The problem as others have clearly stated is not necessarily the religions themselves but people who twist religion to their own advantage, or the power structure of organized religions. If everyone in the world were atheists I'm sure that people would be fighting over something else. Weed out the corruption, evil and hate but let people believe what they believe, as you would want to be free to believe in what you believe.

Western democracies (U.S. included) are becoming more and more secular; there is a pushback against religion and the wish-thinking inextricably linked with it. Are you going to punch us all in the face?
 
Simply because you say atheism is not a believe does not make that statement true. Until science can prove that God does not exist, atheism is a belief.

Atheism doesn't have to be the belief that God does not exist. Atheism can be the lack of belief that god exists.
 
Western democracies (U.S. included) are becoming more and more secular; there is a pushback against religion and the wish-thinking inextricably linked with it. Are you going to punch us all in the face?
Read what I said carefully. Expressing your views during a debate is one thing. But to tell an individual who lost a loved one, who has hope that their loved one is in a better place, that their beliefs are BS- what you are doing is simply and utterly wrong. I find it ironic how many atheists on here lambast religion for "brainwashing" people, but get extremely upset when people don't agree with atheism. What's wrong with letting people have their beliefs? Perhaps instead of calling people idiots or taking away their individual hope, focus on YOUR beliefs- push for science. Push for education. Move our civilization in the right direction. But you don't need to do that with bully tactics.
As for your comment that more and more people are becoming secular... I think it's that more and more people are turning away from organized religion. That does not necessarily mean that they don't believe in a higher power or have faith in something. Case in point; I've been teaching global history for 8+ years. Every year I get to teach religion (probably my favorite topic of the entire curriculum). I always survey my students- I usually have one or two fervent atheists, a couple of agnostics... but the majority of my students every single year seem to believe in something. As I teach in NYC, their beliefs tend to be diverse; I usually have a mix of different types of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, even a few Buddhists! The diversity of their beliefs is fascinating to me and to my students; they usually enjoy learning about each other. To imagine a future classroom where everyone believes the same thing, whether it's atheism or Judaism or Christianity just strikes me as wrong.
 
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