Merged New video! Architects and Engineers - Solving the Mystery of Building 7

[beachnut]

10 years of nonsense from 911 truth. No one is able to turn the fantasy video into reality based claims. Followers of 911 truth repeat failed claims and project their lazy traits to those who figured out 911.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nWRVqPYs-E

The opening post, without comment, exposes Gage's fellow liars as delusional. The video is nonsense, delusional claims which keeps 911 truth in the nut case paranoid conspiracy theorists category of crazy. 911 truth followers need to stop replying to JREF posts and relax. How much would people pay to have delusions and fantasy? We pay big bucks to go to Disneyland for a few days, 911 truth followers have Fantasyland for free.

There is no comment from 911 truth followers, because they have no evidence or skills to make a rational argument.

 

[Oystein]

I prefer not to speculate on these sort of fantasies. If RedIbis and other truthers like to pretend that NIST deliberately chose not to incorporate useful information into their model, that is of course their prerogative, but any deductions drawn from this incorrect assumption are worthless. The actual situation was that steel was not identifiable, and therefore analysis results on individual pieces of steel could not provide a useful input to the model. Asking me to speculate on what it would have meant if NIST had deliberately ignored useful information is no more relevant than asking me to speculate on whether widespread auditory injuries and barotrauma on 9/11 would have indicated CD of the towers; it didn't happen, so there's no real point in speculating on its implications if it had.

Dave

Fair enough

 

[Oystein]

Wouldn't column 79 have potentially been identifiable though? It was not exactly like every other one in it's connections to the rest of the framing. As someone who "needs" to visualize problems I would personally find it extremely frustrating not to be able to look at all the framing pieces to see if they were at least consistent with our hypothesis. However, since NIST was still working on the report 6 years after the fact, is it possible that by the time they had formed this particular hypothesis the steel was no longer available at all i.e. having perhaps been shipped to China, etc.?

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that I agree with RedIbis, just wondering about how the whole thing progressed. Were they able to look at steel, but determined that they couldn't identify anything in particular? Were there photos taken during the cleanup with the specific purpose of providing information for the collapse investigation?

The highlighted par is highly plausible, but I have not looked at the WTC7 report and its technical references, which would certainly include earlier FEMA work, closely enough to call it this or that way.

 

[NoahFence]

Unfortunately the moderators here have stated that lying is permissible, which is why the more lazy amongst the Official Story supporters here rely on it so much.

MM

Where's my irony meter at? Oh man - it just exploded!

 

[funk de fino]

No. Not before 9/11 or since.

This is a bare faced lie.

 

[funk de fino]

He's going to post the collapse of the roof of a steel framed warehouse. Just remind him it's not a high rise. For some reason he seems to think this refutes NIST's admission that before 9/11 no steel framed high rise has ever collapsed due to fire.

You ran away again. Have you no shame? Answer my posts and dont snark at someone elses reply.

 

[funk de fino]

Again, that is not physical evidence. You seem to think that ballistic properties are. What you're trying to do, and why it's important for me to point this out, is that you are trying to justify NIST's admission that they didn't analyze any WTC 7 steel, when they had literally tons of of steel potentially at their disposal. Acceping NIST's conclusions is an act of faith, not of skepticism.

Source?

You do know the steel had been inspected by forensic examiners prior to the report? They pulled only a few unusual pieces from that steel for further examination. A few pieces out of tons of it.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that I agree with RedIbis, just wondering about how the whole thing progressed. Were they able to look at steel, but determined that they couldn't identify anything in particular? Were there photos taken during the cleanup with the specific purpose of providing information for the collapse investigation?

One of the problems you run into is that many connections will represent typical conditions even though there may be minor variations specific to an a-typical framing system like WTC 7 had. Unless you have those marks available there's no way to ascertain if the samples collected came from the location of interest... at least that's my interpretation. I know this is what happened when the NIST went to collect samples from the impact regions of WTC 1 & 2.

 

[Zeuzzz]

...

Dave you seem like a pretty level headed guy have you ever had any personal doubts about some of the official account of 9/11?

Curious as to whether people ever fluctuate from one side to another here or if its generally black and white for most.

 

[Zeuzzz]

To be honest, I don't recall that I read a recent post by you and thought to myself "yes, this proves a lie". Rather, my impression was, as I stated "they are both mildly dishonest about semantics"

I agree but I don't pick up intentional dishonesty from either, seems to be the type of argument over semantics where both sides are trying to have the final word rather than stick by their original point.

Sorry I'm a b it late to this thread, I'd like to know why there is no physical evidence left considering it was a crime scene? I am aware that about 130,000 tons of steel was shipped off to random locations in asia and promptly destroyed (within weeks?) but surely given this is the biggest terrorist crime committed in American history people collected at least some samples that can be analyzed and studied still? Where can scientists get these samples?

 

[Oystein]

I agree but I don't pick up intentional dishonesty from either, seems to be the type of argument over semantics where both sides are trying to have the final word rather than stick by their original point.

Yes, quite possible.

Sorry I'm a b it late to this thread, I'd like to know why there is no physical evidence left considering it was a crime scene? I am aware that about 130,000 tons of steel was shipped off to random locations in asia and promptly destroyed (within weeks?) but surely given this is the biggest terrorist crime committed in American history people collected at least some samples that can be analyzed and studied still? Where can scientists get these samples?

I think the problem is that the NIST investigation into the collapse of WTC 7 didn't begin to produce preliminary results until long after GZ was cleared of all scrap metal, and also the forensic investigation at Fresh Kills had stopped. Indeed much of the steel from all buildings had been shipped off by then. In the case of WTC 7, it was difficult to do an inventory of steel pieces and their respective properties (failure modes...) as people didn't know at the time when its debris was being physically investigated what to look for and where - there wasn't a guiding theory to start from.
By the time NIST had a hypothesis around column 79, none of that material was around any longer for more detailed re-examitnation.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I agree but I don't pick up intentional dishonesty from either, seems to be the type of argument over semantics where both sides are trying to have the final word rather than stick by their original point.

Sorry I'm a b it late to this thread, I'd like to know why there is no physical evidence left considering it was a crime scene? I am aware that about 130,000 tons of steel was shipped off to random locations in asia and promptly destroyed (within weeks?) but surely given this is the biggest terrorist crime committed in American history people collected at least some samples that can be analyzed and studied still? Where can scientists get these samples?

Excellent point.

 

[George 152]

Excellent point.

Not so.
All those remaining parts are buried at Fresh Kills.
All you have to do is get a shovel and permission to show whatever strange thing it is that you wish to show

 

[Miragememories]

"Around here that's called lying. I just think you're misinformed, wrong, incorrect or too lazy to find out for yourself."

"Unfortunately the moderators here have stated that lying is permissible, which is why the more lazy amongst the Official Story supporters here rely on it so much."

"If there were a rule here against lying, not one of you 911 kooks could make it past two posts before you would violate it. It's rare you any of you say anything that doesn't include some lie or another."

The biggest problem with your most recent lie, The Platypus, is motivation.

People, well adults, do not normally lie without cause.

I cannot think of any credible reason why so many adults would spend a great deal of their time performing careful research, and then knowingly posting lies about 9/11 being an inside job?

What motive is there for me, or any other patriotic citizen, for wanting to believe in that worse case scenario?

Believing in the Official Story is certainly going to make one more accepted by family and friends, and allow for a better night's sleep.

On the other side of the coin, if believers in the Official Story are so comfortable with that conviction, how do they justify lying, and such vicious opposition to those who are merely seeking clarity about 9/11?

It creates the impression that they are hiding from, or trying to suppress, their worst fears about 9/11.

MM

 

[Zeuzzz]

All those remaining parts are buried at Fresh Kills.

They dumped peoples bodies along with evidence from a major crime scene in a landfill?

All you have to do is get a shovel and permission to show whatever strange thing it is that you wish to show

Have people done this, would the evidence be believed by anyone here to actually be from one of the buildings if such permission was even possible to get?

 

[twinstead]

The biggest problem with your most recent lie, The Platypus, is motivation.

People, well adults, do not normally lie without cause.

I cannot think of any credible reason why so many adults would spend a great deal of their time performing careful research, and then knowingly posting lies about 9/11 being an inside job?

What motive is there for me, or any other patriotic citizen, for wanting to believe in that worse case scenario?

Believing in the Official Story is certainly going to make one more accepted by family and friends, and allow for a better night's sleep.

On the other side of the coin, if believers in the Official Story are so comfortable with that conviction, how do they justify lying, and such vicious opposition to those who are merely seeking clarity about 9/11?

It creates the impression that they are hiding from, or trying to suppress, their worst fears about 9/11.

MM

What kind of impression does solely arguing from simple incredulity create?

 

[RedIbis]

You ran away again. Have you no shame? Answer my posts and dont snark at someone elses reply.

Ran away? Or worked, nursed a cold, came home, watched Boardwalk Empire while my girlfriend fed me some soup and tea.

Take it as fair warning that if you don't wait a reasonable amount of time (about 24 hrs) when taking into consideration time differences, personal lives and work schedules, you will not get any kind of response from me.

 

[beachnut]

... I am aware that about 130,000 tons of steel was shipped off to random locations in asia and promptly destroyed (within weeks?) but surely given this is the biggest terrorist crime committed in American history people collected at least some samples that can be analyzed and studied still? Where can scientists get these samples?

The only reason to study the steel is to improve buildings. 911 truth has to make up nonsense, which you fall for, and you now think you can find evidence of a CT from the steel. What do the poor 911 truth CD nuts say about Flight 93 and Flight 77. What is the whole story?, Gage and most of 911 truth avoid detail, the big fraud might be easier to see for those who fail to use their own minds if the details of 911 truth delusions were filled in.

The steel was not shipped away in weeks, try many months next time, don't use 911 truth lies to form claims.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/steelstuffWTC.jpg

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/wtclookingforThermitenotfound.jpg
OMG, SAVE for study... oops
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/NotMelted.jpg
OMG, a scientist who is studying WTC steel.

Clean up ended in May 2002, how many weeks is that?

... promptly destroyed ...?

11 Sep 2001, to May 2002, promptly? Is this 911 truth promptly?

 

[RedIbis]

I agree but I don't pick up intentional dishonesty from either, seems to be the type of argument over semantics where both sides are trying to have the final word rather than stick by their original point.

Sorry I'm a b it late to this thread, I'd like to know why there is no physical evidence left considering it was a crime scene? I am aware that about 130,000 tons of steel was shipped off to random locations in asia and promptly destroyed (within weeks?) but surely given this is the biggest terrorist crime committed in American history people collected at least some samples that can be analyzed and studied still? Where can scientists get these samples?

It's not a semantic argument. This is supposed to be a skeptic's forum and for good reason, physical evidence is the Holy Grail of research. To summarize my persistence on this point:

A skeptic should maintain the same standards of doubt regardless of the emotional aspect of the event.

NIST made extraordinary claims in its WTC 7 report and presented two unprecedented phenomena in the history of architectural collapse.

These claims were not supported by any corroborating physical evidence.

A skeptic would be skeptical.

 

[TexasJack]

They dumped peoples bodies along with evidence from a major crime scene in a landfill?

What they did is shift evidence to Fresh Kills. The first priority was to try to save lives, thus they moved the steel to Fresh Kills where thousands of agents forensically examined the steel, collected body parts, etc. No explosives were detected. Everything you wanted to know about Fresh Kills is right here.

Further, there were bomb-sniffing dogs at GZ (that could detect thermite as well), and guess what? No explosives. No thermite.

7 is supposedly this "smoking gun" yet no explosives have been detected--no det cords, no wiring etc. It is also a building that holds no historical value.