Are Agnostics Welcome Here?

[Nicole Friedman]

I don't take people who type 'G-d' seriously.

I don't cotton to what you describe as "hopeful agnostics", only "atheists-in-all-but-name-and-absolute-certainty agnostics".

How possibly could typing G-d this way offend you, and why should I not have hope?

 

[kerikiwi]

How possibly could typing G-d this way offend you, and why should I not have hope?

Complexity in no way said typing g-d offended him. He said he can't take serioulsy people who do that.
You can have all the hope you want. It's wishful thinking in no way founded on reality but nobody said you shouldn't do it.
But seriously, why hope for Jahweh and not Zeus? Or Krishna?
Is there any evidence at all that Yahweh is real but the others not?

 

[Nicole Friedman]

Complexity in no way said typing g-d offended him. He said he can't take serioulsy people who do that.
You can have all the hope you want. It's wishful thinking in no way founded on reality but nobody said you shouldn't do it.
But seriously, why hope for Jahweh and not Zeus? Or Krishna?
Is there any evidence at all that Yahweh is real but the others not?

As I've already stated several times, I have hope that there is some higher intelligence in the universe. Call it whatever you want. And ok if I didn't offend him, but to not take me seriously over how I spell a word seems trivial.

 

[laca]

As I've already stated several times, I have hope that there is some higher intelligence in the universe. Call it whatever you want. And ok if I didn't offend him, but to not take me seriously over how I spell a word seems trivial.

It's not as much how you spell it, but why. Also, you seem to make quite a few Freudian slips like the one above... You surely understand why we're skeptical.

 

[Nicole Friedman]

It's not as much how you spell it, but why. Also, you seem to make quite a few Freudian slips like the one above... You surely understand why we're skeptical.

As by him I meant Complexity. I've already explained why I spell G-d this way. I get that people in the past claimed to be agnostic or atheist but were really trolls looking for arguments- so in that I can understand your being skeptical. From my perspective, I've already explained my views- I'm not looking for people on here to agree with them; they are what they are. The reason I started this thread in the first place is because I saw that many on this website seem to be atheist or leaning towards it. I wanted an honest reaction to views by someone like myself, who obviously is coming from a different perspective than many others on here.

 

[kerikiwi]

I've already explained why I spell G-d this way. .... I wanted an honest reaction to views by someone like myself, who obviously is coming from a different perspective than many others on here.

We understand why you spell god as you do. And the honest reaction is that some of us think it pointless and silly.
Howdo you pronounce g-d when you use it in conversation?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... The reason I started this thread in the first place is because I saw that many on this website seem to be atheist or leaning towards it. I wanted an honest reaction to views by someone like myself, who obviously is coming from a different perspective than many others on here.

If it's any consolation, I'm an atheist and people here argue with me all the time. There are even some who claim I can't be a true atheist and I must be an agnostic.

 

[Naive1000]

Welcome, always good to see people up for a good debate. I'm new here myself so my welcome probably means little .

I agree that if you call yourself an agnostic that's what you are. But, I can understand the others position: agnostics do not believe in one specific religion just the possibility that there is a god, so they commonly do not follow or defer to their superstitions and practices which you clearly do. I disagree with this position because it ignores the fact that you're questioning the existence of a god which is agnostic by definition.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

We understand why you spell god as you do. And the honest reaction is that some of us think it pointless and silly.
Howdo you pronounce g-d when you use it in conversation?

G[glottal stop]d, obviously.

 

[Trent Wray]

We understand why you spell god as you do. And the honest reaction is that some of us think it pointless and silly.
Howdo you pronounce g-d when you use it in conversation?

Most of the time it's pronounced "Voldemort".

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Nicole:

Let’s say you make up your mind and decide to believe in God. Not a Jewish God, but just a God some general sense of some force out there.

How would this change you? How would this change what you believe, how you act, what you value? Would God want or expect certain things from you? Would you want or expect certain things from God? Would God care? Would God be able to provide them? If believing in God means that there is some force driving toward some purpose and that you are part of that purpose, how do you know what that purpose is? How do you know how to assist that purpose? How do you know that the purpose is good and that you should assist that purpose?

If you did believe in God, what would God be like? How would you know that God is like that?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

[G-d] seems more respectful to me. ....

I don't get it. I respect your choice and think it's silly to complain about that choice. I'm sure I have a odd habit or two myself.

But I don't get how g-d is more respectful. And is it respectful of a particular group of theists? I've never even heard of it. We know about some Muslims who don't think any likeness of Mohammad should be displayed because some of them rioted and murdered a few years ago. But upon closer exam, it turns out this was unique to a group of Muslims and there are many depictions of Mohammad that have been painted or created by Muslims themselves. It's possible the attack against the cartoon was fomenting of the masses for political gain, not a true 'commandment'.

Is there a particular Biblical or Torah text that instructs followers to only spell part of the name, God, when writing?

 

[MaGZ]

In Judaism you're not supposed to spell out the word G-d. I don't always use the hyphen but I do feel more comfortable doing so.

Isn’t it about time you abandon this G-d superstition?

 

[MaGZ]

Most of my life I've been an empiricist; I like to be able to see evidence for something before believing in it, no matter what it is. Perhaps this was rebellion as I grew up with a mother who believed in everything paranormal and spiritual:}
I recently got married to a man who I love more than life. He has been returning to his Jewish roots and while extremely scientific oriented, he is without a doubt a believer in G-d. Is he influencing my views? Of course, but due to my skeptical nature, I may be stuck in agnostic limbo for a while longer.

I don’t think you should come to this forum as a cheap way to seek therapy.

 

[Leumas]

G-d = Circumcised God

The very definition of G-d would mean that there cannot be more than one, at least according to the Judeo-Christian belief. As for myself, when I refer to G-d I'm thinking of any higher intelligence. That is a possibility for myself; multiple Gods just simply does not make any sense to me.

Seriously...... you include Christianity in the ONE god assertion?

In Christianity there are THREE (at the very least ....see later) GODS..... YHWH + Jesus+ Holy Ghost.

They are not one....because if you look at Revelation Jesus sits at the right hand of YHWH on bejewled thrones....TWO thrones....

But also there are the ANGELS and the SAINTS and the DEMONS. All of these are GODS......and yes they are GODS..... even in the Greek and Roman cultures There was one big creator god and created gods.

And then there is SATAN = Lucifer = The Devil = Beelzebub etc.

He can even outsmart Jesus and YHWH and they HAVE WARS and battles.

Satan is even the stoker of the Hell fire ....FOREVER.....so he is just as eternal as YHWH or Jesus or the other SPIRITS.

He is a "fallen" angel....so the other angels then are just OBEDIENT GODS.


So does the above make sense to you? Why is it any different from any POLYTHEISM?

What Christians believe in is a POLYTHEISM by any definition. In fact it is called TRINITY..... poly = more than one.

Actually, I explained that I'm not just talking about a Jewish G-d, but any form of higher intelligence that may exist in this universe.

Really.....is Satan a higher intelligence? Are the Angels?

Was the snake in Eden of higher intelligence than Adam and Eve? It knew what the trees were for. It knew that YHWH lied about its killing effect and it knew enough to DEFY god and trick his play things.

It seems more respectful to me. As I've said, I hope that there is something out there; maybe it's a signifier of my hope.

And why would YHWH care how you spell God.....he did not call himself God....he called himself YHWH and even in Hebrew when we spell YHWH we spell it out in full with the vowels and all. So there is no DISRESPECT to YHWH to spell out his name on paper. The only taboo is in SOUNDING out his name......his NAME....not his title....since we do sound out his OTHER TITLES.

We do say Adonai....we do say Elohim.... we do say HaShem and in fact ALLLLLLL the other words in the Bible that describe YHWH are spelled out and pronounced in full....the only taboo is at the word YHWH which is SPELLED OUT IN FULL but not pronounced.

Since God is a title .....and is in English so most likely YHWH does not even acknowledge it since he only can speak Hebrew..... then I cannot see how it would be any more or less respectful to spell it out as God instead of mutilating the word just like a PENIS......

So you want to CIRCUMCISE the English word God to be more respectful to YHWH just like you want to circumcise little boys' penises???? and all out of imagined RESPECT for a god you are not even sure exists and just hoping s/he/it would exist so that all that FEAR and servility would pay off.

Because I am 100 % they do not exist.

So what made you 100% sure about it? Could it be cultural inculcation and childhood indoctrination and societal brainwashing?

Could it be the fact that you are living in a society that has had its ancestors browbeaten and cowed and tortured and execrated and enslaved and lobotomized (educationally) and forced by all possible horrors and vitiations that a despotic power could muster so as to make them forget the worship of the other gods that their ancestors loved and believed in just as much as you now believe in YHWH and Jesus and the Holy Ghost?....

Oh wait….you do not believe in Jesus and the holy ghost….just G-d….. why then do you write Judeo-Christianity? Or do you believe in Jesus and the Holy Ghost?

If you believe in Jesus and the Holy Ghost….isn’t YHWH offended at your BLASPHEME more than he would if you wrote out a meaningless word out in full.

Don’t you think that if YHWH was going to care how you spell out GOD he would first care about the fact that Christians are making him part of a TRIUNE god and that they pretend to eat his flesh and drink his blood and that they have Graven Images of him NAKED and that they kiss the feet of statues of Mary and that they think Jesus the son has now taken over the Kingdom and G-d is only just sitting in the background as an old dotard drooling on his jewel encrusted throne at the left hand of Jesus?

 

[Leumas]

G-d = Circumcised God ....part II

It seems more respectful to me. As I've said, I hope that there is something out there; maybe it's a signifier of my hope.

Hey Nicole,

Do you read the Tanakh in English or can you read it in Hebrew?


If you read it in English......does it have the word God?


So why is it that the OFFICIAL translation approved by the Rabbis of the Tanakh in English has the word God? Are the Rabbis who did the translation disrespectful to YHWH?

Have a look at this site.... notice verse 16 in this page.....

Remember the Hebrew is from right to left and the first highlighted word is YeHWaH spelled out in full with the vowels and the second word is Elohay spelled out in full. Notice how Elohay is translated as "God of" in English and YHWH as "The Lord" (i.e. Adonai).

טז לֵךְ וְאָסַפְתָּ אֶת-זִקְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, וְאָמַרְתָּ אֲלֵהֶם יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵי אֲבֹתֵיכֶם נִרְאָה אֵלַי, אֱלֹהֵי אַבְרָהָם יִצְחָק וְיַעֲקֹב, לֵאמֹר: פָּקֹד פָּקַדְתִּי אֶתְכֶם, וְאֶת-הֶעָשׂוּי לָכֶם בְּמִצְרָיִם.

16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them: The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, hath appeared unto me, saying: I have surely remembered you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt.

Also have a look at verse 4. Notice the word Eloheem is translated as God.

ד וַיַּרְא יְהוָה, כִּי סָר לִרְאוֹת; וַיִּקְרָא אֵלָיו אֱלֹהִים מִתּוֹךְ הַסְּנֶה, וַיֹּאמֶר מֹשֶׁה מֹשֶׁה--וַיֹּאמֶר הִנֵּנִי.

4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said: 'Moses, Moses.' And he said: 'Here am I.'

 

[Tricky]

We understand why you spell god as you do. And the honest reaction is that some of us think it pointless and silly.
Howdo you pronounce g-d when you use it in conversation?

Gunderscored.

 

[Robert Oz]

The very definition of G-d would mean that there cannot be more than one, at least according to the Judeo-Christian belief. As for myself, when I refer to G-d I'm thinking of any higher intelligence. That is a possibility for myself; multiple Gods just simply does not make any sense to me.

Well, seeing as there have been many, many more religions with multiple gods than there have been with only one, I would say the definition of 'god' certainly is not limited to one.

Why do multiple gods not make any sense? Why is the Judeo-Christian god more likely, in your opinion, then the Greek pantheon of gods? If anything, I would think a pantheon of petty, jealous gods fits better with the spectrum of good and bad things that happen in this world.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Seriously...... you include Christianity in the ONE god assertion?

In Christianity there are THREE (at the very least ....see later) GODS..... YHWH + Jesus+ Holy Ghost.

Oh my Gunderscored! Take it back to the other thread! We were having a nice discussion about agnosticism here.

 

[Brainache]

Oh my Gunderscored! Take it back to the other thread! We were having a nice discussion about agnosticism here.

I don't think Nicole is agnostic about Gunderscored, she's agnostic about Ghyphend.

Get it right!