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The Wicked Witch of the West and Obamacare

Kid Eager said:
Ah, so that explains why your non-free costs are higher than the "free" ones then. Impeccable reverse logic there sir: you just made Milton Friedman cry.
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You are mistaking the moral cost of free healthcare for a monetary one. He was referring to the former.
 
Robert Prey said:
Milton Friedman postulated that "there is no free lunch". Obviously, that goes for heath care as well. Health care is never so expensive as when it is "free."
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Yup the same man who though monopolies are a good thing.

There is no free lunch now, we just shift the burden to the hospitals, while private insurers make money and deny care all the time.

The reason health care in the US is expensive, profit taking. A plastic tube gets jacked up beyond belief.
 
Robert Prey said:
Well then congratulations. But I sure wouldn't like to pay your gas tax prices. And if things are so good, why is your current government making such draconian cuts in spending causing the rioting in the streets of your spoiled youth? And are people still dying in the corridors of your hospitals? Just curious.
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And why should federal taxes subsidize the roads, ?

Why doesn't the gas tax cover the cost of the roads?

And that stuff about people dying in the hallway?

I wonder how many people die in ER waiting areas in the US? Or untreated at home?
 
casebro said:
It looks to me that while we lack UHC, about 99% of use DO NOT NEED Obamacare.
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So are you saying that the young adults that curently do not have health care should NEVER have health care insurance at anyy point in thier lives?
 
Robert Prey said:
Milton Friedman postulated that "there is no free lunch". Obviously, that goes for heath care as well. Health care is never so expensive as when it is "free."
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No one has ever claimed it is "free" except for the people who oppose UHC.
 
jj said:
Why is this relevant, other than to point out the USA is still remiss in dealing with energy policy?.
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Oh, the US does indeed have an Obama enforced energy policy fostered by the environmentalist wackos.
 
Robert Prey said:
Oh, the US does indeed have an Obama enforced energy policy fostered by the environmentalist wackos.
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No, you don't. If you did, half of america would be covered in windmills and solar panels. Stop trying to paint the centre-right position on the environment as the far left.
 
Dancing David said:
Yup the same man who though monopolies are a good thing.

There is no free lunch now, we just shift the burden to the hospitals, while private insurers make money and deny care all the time.

The reason health care in the US is expensive, profit taking. A plastic tube gets jacked up beyond belief.
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The reason health care is so expensive in the US, is the same reason for the inflated costs of higher education -- no market discipline. The more government money stolen from taxpayers or counterfeited by the Fed, and shoveled into the system, the more prices are bid up. The answer is to take away all the Pell Grants, all the loans and the scholarships and all the federal grants to colleges and let the free market work. Ditto for health care.
 
Robert Prey said:
The reason health care is so expensive in the US, is the same reason for the inflated costs of higher education -- no market discipline. The more government money stolen from taxpayers or counterfeited by the Fed, and shoveled into the system, the more prices are bid up. The answer is to take away all the Pell Grants, all the loans and the scholarships and all the federal grants to colleges and let the free market work. Ditto for health care.
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Her is an example of how "facts" work.

You make a claim that private colleges would be cheaper than public colleges.

Fact: in 14 out of 15 cases examined by the GAO, for profit colleges were more expensice thatn public colleges for comparable programs.

Source: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d10948t.pdf

see, I even included a source.
 
Alferd_Packer said:
Should we take this as an admission that you are making crap up without regards to reality?
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I don't make up crap. Should we take this item as an admission that facts really do not concern you?

UK Man Collapses In Hospital And Dies After Nurses Ignore Him For 10 Hours

"When 41-year-old Peter Thompson arrived in a UK hospital after having a concoction of alcohol and drugs, it’s reasonable to expect that he would have been treated. He wasn’t. Instead, he collapsed on the floor, just 200 yards from the emergency center. And there he lay, for 10 hours, as nurses stepped around him dismissing him as a mere drunk. He died because of the inaction.

But adding to the horror is how Thompson’s body was treated after he died – he was dragged through the hall like “a dead animal,” his family said."

http://thedaleygator.wordpress.com/...nd-dies-after-nurses-ignore-him-for-10-hours/
 
Robert Prey said:
I don't make up crap. Should we take this item as an admission that facts really do not concern you?

UK Man Collapses In Hospital And Dies After Nurses Ignore Him For 10 Hours

"When 41-year-old Peter Thompson arrived in a UK hospital after having a concoction of alcohol and drugs, it’s reasonable to expect that he would have been treated. He wasn’t. Instead, he collapsed on the floor, just 200 yards from the emergency center. And there he lay, for 10 hours, as nurses stepped around him dismissing him as a mere drunk. He died because of the inaction.

But adding to the horror is how Thompson’s body was treated after he died – he was dragged through the hall like “a dead animal,” his family said."

http://thedaleygator.wordpress.com/...nd-dies-after-nurses-ignore-him-for-10-hours/
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pleaseexplain how this is a result of the program and not a failure of the managmenet of the actual unit involved.
 
Alferd_Packer said:
Her is an example of how "facts" work.

You make a claim that private colleges would be cheaper than public colleges.

Fact: in 14 out of 15 cases examined by the GAO, for profit colleges were more expensice thatn public colleges for comparable programs.

Source: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d10948t.pdf

see, I even included a source.
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When citing a source, it is usually a good idea to read it, to wit:

"...students at for-profit colleges received more than $4 billion in Pell Grants and more than $20 billion in federal loans provided by the Department of Education (Education)....

...The colleges were selected based on several factors, including those that the Department of Education reported received 89 percent or more of their revenue from federal student aid."

In other words, the so-called "for profit" colleges are not private at all, but subsidized via the poor dumb taxpayer, just like the public colleges.
 
Robert Prey said:
Just as I predicted. "Facts" do not matter to you at all.
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Single anecdotes don't matter at all. If you want examples of private healthcare failing, go to the wiki list of american health insurance companies, pick a few big ones, and go through the lawsuits they've had against them or the "controversy" link - for example, Aetna, or Cigna. This doesn't prove socialised medicine to be better just as your article doesn't prove it to be worse, it just shows that both systems have their flaws, and we can't use single cases to dismiss either system.
 
I have private insurance through my employment. I work for a large regional hospital, and as such, my medical coverage is very, very good. Low copays for visits and prescriptions ($10 for primary and prescriptions, $25 for a specialist, $50 for ER, and 10% if I'm going to stay) and it's something like $100 a month. I wish everyone could get coverage like that.
 
Robert Prey said:
I don't make up crap. Should we take this item as an admission that facts really do not concern you?

UK Man Collapses In Hospital And Dies After Nurses Ignore Him For 10 Hours

"When 41-year-old Peter Thompson arrived in a UK hospital after having a concoction of alcohol and drugs, it’s reasonable to expect that he would have been treated. He wasn’t. Instead, he collapsed on the floor, just 200 yards from the emergency center. And there he lay, for 10 hours, as nurses stepped around him dismissing him as a mere drunk. He died because of the inaction.

But adding to the horror is how Thompson’s body was treated after he died – he was dragged through the hall like “a dead animal,” his family said."

http://thedaleygator.wordpress.com/...nd-dies-after-nurses-ignore-him-for-10-hours/
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And we can find horror stories about the US system too. It does not, however, prove that there is a fundamental problem with the UK or US systems. For that we just have to look at statistical information regarding clinical outcomes, extent of population treated, key health indicators, and costs.

Hint: Said statistical information does not make the current US system look very good.
 
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