UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[Krikkiter]

I was simply bringing Krikkiter up to speed on your personal definition of the acronym "UFO," to cultivate a better understanding of the state of the discussion.

I found that very helpful. Before that I wasn't aware that Ufology classed every Unidentified Flying Object as necessarily of alien origin. Seems bizarre to me but anyhoo...

Is that an inaccurate appraisal of your position? If not, then please clarify, for Krikkiter's benefit, your exact position regarding the definition of "UFO."

Yes Ufology, please do. Are all UFO's necessarily alien craft?

ETA: A simple yes or no will do.

 

[ufology]

I found that very helpful. Before that I wasn't aware that Ufology classed every Unidentified Flying Object as necessarily of alien origin. Seems bizarre to me but anyhoo...

Yes Ufology, please do. Are all UFO's necessarily alien craft?

ETA: A simple yes or no will do.

Krikkiter,

Have you stopped abusing your dog? A simple yes or no will do. Please get back to me after reviewing the issue in some detail. I'd be happy to clarify then.

 

[John Albert]

Krikkiter,

Have you stopped abusing your dog?

OH MY GOD, YOU HEARTLESS BASTARD!

What have you done to him? His sides are splitting!



Somebody call the SPCA!

 

[ufology]

This doesn't even matter. If you define the word UFO to mean "alien craft" you either need evidence showing alien craft exist, or you're defining UFO to refer to an imaginary object. And we're back to where we started.

ehcks,

Nothing needs to be proven to exist before a definition for it can be created. A definition merely provides a way to impart what we mean to communicate e.g. "So and so says they saw a UFO!"

 

[Tomtomkent]

Krikkiter,

Have you stopped abusing your dog? A simple yes or no will do. Please get back to me after reviewing the issue in some detail. I'd be happy to clarify then.

So the concept of saying yes or no beffudled you folo?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Marduk,

I've never claimed to have been abducted, only that I've experienced missing time. I've never claimed to be a contactee like Rael, nor would I want to be. Yes I've encountered MIB. Those were pretty weird experiences ... so what? I didn't ask for it to happen. I'm just describing what happened. And you forgot to mention without the race car video games and hair loss.

How do you know that the near miss with the Cadillac happened and was not nearly white line fever combined with the vivid imagination? What do you hope readers should gain from your offering up such a story?

 

[John Albert]

This doesn't even matter. If you define the word UFO to mean "alien craft" you either need evidence showing alien craft exist, or you're defining UFO to refer to an imaginary object. And we're back to where we started.

ehcks,

Nothing needs to be proven to exist before a definition for it can be created. A definition merely provides a way to impart what we mean to communicate e.g. "So and so says they saw a UFO!"

In case you didn't notice, that was a conditional statement. An if-then-else statement, to be precise.

If you define the word UFO to mean "alien craft" [then] you either need evidence showing alien craft exist, or [else] you're defining UFO to refer to an imaginary object.

Now can you follow the logic in that statement, or do you need me to break it down for you?

 

[ufology]

Oh, please.

You persist with this nonsense?

Can you show where anyone, even other UFO believers, subscribe to this definition?

You can't even convince other UFO believers to buy into your nonsense. Do you really expect anyone else to buy into it?

AdMan,

If you can't accept the fact that when someone says they just saw a show about UFOs or that when someone mentions the word UFO, that the vast majority of people in the world instantly visualize a flying saucer or some other alien craft, then you are so far out of touch with the word's primary meaning in modern culture that you are in a state of denial.

 

[Krikkiter]

Krikkiter,

Have you stopped abusing your dog? A simple yes or no will do. Please get back to me after reviewing the issue in some detail. I'd be happy to clarify then.

I'm sorry if you see it that way but this goes to the heart of the issue. The reason I wanted a yes or no answer was only for the sake of clarity. I've noticed you tend to avoid direct answers and steer the conversation in a different direction if you don't like the question.

Kind of like the old politician's instruction "If you don't like the question that was asked, answer the question you wanted to be asked."

In any case, I'm not sure why a simple yes or no answer wouldn't be forthcoming.

 

[ufology]

How do you know that the near miss with the Cadillac happened and was not nearly white line fever combined with the vivid imagination? What do you hope readers should gain from your offering up such a story?

Sideroxylon,

I don't hope to gain anything personally. However because I had the experience I thought that other people who have had MIB encounters might be interested. As for highway hypnosis, I wasn't tired or passing out at the wheel. Also, at that point in time the MIB weren't something I remember having read about prior to the experience. Perhaps if Ruppelt, Lorenzen or Edwards mentions them, they might have gone into my subconscious. But I didn't consciously clue into them until about 1988 when I got a Time Life book that described them. So why would I imagine something that specific and with such detail when I hadn't any prior knowledge of them? Plus I also stopped the car, got out, and walked around. The misty vapor trail or whatever it was was still hanging in the air. It dissipated after a few minutes, but there is no way it was imaginary and it was definitely some kind of trail ... not just diffused fog.

 

[John Albert]

You sure do tell a lot of crazy stories.

 

[John Albert]

Tell the one about the giant talking rabbit!

I want to hear the one about the giant talking rabbit!

 

[ufology]

I'm sorry if you see it that way but this goes to the heart of the issue. The reason I wanted a yes or no answer was only for the sake of clarity. I've noticed you tend to avoid direct answers and steer the conversation in a different direction if you don't like the question.

Kind of like the old politician's instruction "If you don't like the question that was asked, answer the question you wanted to be asked."

In any case, I'm not sure why a simple yes or no answer wouldn't be forthcoming.

Krikkiter,

I was just making a point that it's not a simple yes or no answer and to properly answer it in full requires that you review the details. I'm not switching the subject on you, but since you like the political analogy, politicians also spin surveys using limited yes or no answers to steer their results in one of two specified directions, neither of which the person in the survey feels is accurate. My answer to you is to avoid that trap. So if you want to discuss it, then let's do so.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Sideroxylon,

I don't hope to gain anything personally. However because I had the experience I thought that other people who have had MIB encounters might be interested. As for highway hypnosis, I wasn't tired or passing out at the wheel. Also, at that point in time the MIB weren't something I remember having read about prior to the experience. Perhaps if Ruppelt, Lorenzen or Edwards mentions them, they might have gone into my subconscious. But I didn't consciously clue into them until about 1988 when I got a Time Life book that described them. So why would I imagine something that specific and with such detail when I hadn't any prior knowledge of them? Plus I also stopped the car, got out, and walked around. The misty vapor trail or whatever it was was still hanging in the air. It dissipated after a few minutes, but there is no way it was imaginary and it was definitely some kind of trail ... not just diffused fog.

Reminds me of the reincarnation stories where people swear they have never read anything about given history yet describe "past lives" relating to them. You simply cannot rule out not having read about MiB before that time, can you? Also, why couldn't the vapour trail have been fog, or just dust in your headlights thrown up by your car or self? How did you manage to see so much happening in the Cadillac as it raced in front of your car?

 

[ufology]

Tell the one about the giant talking rabbit!

I want to hear the one about the giant talking rabbit!

Yup ... that what it was ... kids really do see the strangest things sometimes. What was so cool about it is that I was so young and naive that I just figured it was normal for rabbits to say hello when you found them while playing in the tall grass. We've all heard of kids having "imaginary friends" ... well maybe it was something like that, but it sure seemed real to me at the time, and I can't help but think of him every Easter

 

[Sideroxylon]

Yup ... that what it was ... kids really do see the strangest things sometimes. What was so cool about it is that I was so young and naive that I just figured it was normal for rabbits to say hello when you found them while playing in the tall grass. We've all heard of kids having "imaginary friends" ... well maybe it was something like that, but it sure seemed real to me at the time, and I can't help but think of him every Easter

So what do you expect readers might take from such a story? Are you offering it up as something that happened or to give the reader an insight into the kinds of things that go on in your imagination?

If it is supposed to be taken at face value, might I recommend you take the L Ron Hubbard approach and keep it hidden away and offer it as an unlockable sunken-cost reward for qualifying members.

 

[John Albert]

We've all heard of kids having "imaginary friends" ... well maybe it was something like that, but it sure seemed real to me at the time...

That's about the most reasonable explanation I've heard yet. You should continue in that direction: honest and straightforward.

 

[ufology]

Reminds me of the reincarnation stories where people swear they have never read anything about given history yet describe "past lives" relating to them. You simply cannot rule out not having read about MiB before that time, can you? Also, why couldn't the vapour trail have been fog, or just dust in your headlights thrown up by your car or self? How did you manage to see so much happening in the Cadillac as it raced in front of your car?

Sideroxylon,

I had read read a few of the early classics, so like I said, it is possible that I had run across a mention of the MIB someplace, but the incident was in such detail, and I don't think there is that level of detail in any of the books I'd read up to that point.

Regarding seeing the detail. Car accidents cause many people's sense of time to go into slow motion ... and the MIB mobile was only inches in front of me ... it was a really close call, my headlights were shining right into their windows, it was all I could look at and it all seemed to happen in slow motion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_Motion_Perception

As for the vaporous trail, it was well defined and not much wider than a single lane. My car went right through it, and when I got out to inspect the scene it was still there and I walked back and forth through it. It was perfectly clear everywhere else except for this odd trail. Then when I pointed the car headlamps around, you could really see how it had come down, gone across the road and continued down the other side into the valley.

There was no intersection, no creek, no culvert or other localized source for water mist. It was also unlike fog, more like a quasi-mist ... not quite dust but not liquid and it didn't really have a misty or dusty smell either. It was more like really fine crystals of something but they weren't cold either and they didn't settle ... they evaporated. Lastly and most importantly, it wasn't there before the MIB went by, the road was clear. The MIB mobile left this trail in its wake.

 

[Krikkiter]

Krikkiter,

I was just making a point that it's not a simple yes or no answer and to properly answer it in full requires that you review the details. I'm not switching the subject on you, but since you like the political analogy, politicians also spin surveys using limited yes or no answers to steer their results in one of two specified directions, neither of which the person in the survey feels is accurate. My answer to you is to avoid that trap. So if you want to discuss it, then let's do so.

Ok. I have to assume, given the following that your answer is yes:

"Part of every common definition is that because UFOs defy conventional explanation, they are thought to be alien craft, usually of extraterrestrial origin."

So, given the above can you explain this to me? When I was 12 or so, whilst lying on on grass in a field with my brother pondering the mysteries of the universe we both saw something move across the night sky. At the time I had no idea what it was and to this day I'm still not sure what it was. I have a sneaking suspicion it was a satellite.

So lets be sure about this. Because I can't explain what it was (it remains unidentified) it is necessarily and absolutely an alien craft?

 

[ufology]

So what do you expect readers might take from such a story? Are you offering it up as something that happened or to give the reader an insight into the kinds of things that go on in your imagination?

If it is supposed to be taken at face value, might I recommend you take the L Ron Hubbard approach and keep it hidden away and offer it as an unlockable sunken-cost reward for qualifying members.

Sideroxylon,

I've talked to many people about their childhood experiences; experiences that they believe were real and yet extraordinary. I believe certain people have these experiences and that they are unexplained. I realize how woo it sounds, but I don't care. Why should I or anyone else be embarrased or ashamed to describe something they experienced as a child? I share my story because perhaps if I come forward, other people will not feel awkward sharing their experiences with me. I find them fascinating and very interesting ... it's a world view that we adults forget exists.