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The General Native American Discussion Thread

ponderingturtle said:
And why do only they deserve these rights?
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Because they didn't ask for Europeans to come here and the federal government treated them as sovereign nations. Its not an issue of one ethnic group receiving preference but the US honoring its treaty obligations.
 
seayakin said:
Because they didn't ask for Europeans to come here and the federal government treated them as sovereign nations. Its not an issue of one ethnic group receiving preference but the US honoring its treaty obligations.
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This ^^
 
L.Y.S. said:
It wasn't my idea if you feel passionately about it then you start a thread. This is what I feel very passionate about. For me, this is a purpose in life. I want to see that Native Americans receive justice and have a greater voice in America. I will never back down from this position.
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And special status's and privileges for ever as well as permanent subsides apparently.


I live in die by the above quote. Everyone deserves justice, even the Appalachians, but that isn't what this thread is about. It's about Native Americans. So if we could remain on topic, I'd appreciate it.



No one but you is making this argument.
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No one is suggesting giving these rights to anyone else.
 
seayakin said:
Because they didn't ask for Europeans to come here and the federal government treated them as sovereign nations. Its not an issue of one ethnic group receiving preference but the US honoring its treaty obligations.
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So we should give blacks these rights too right? But for some reason not people who came here as fugitives.

I really need to see your rights heirarchy of what groups get what rights and what groups don't.
 
ponderingturtle said:
And special status's and privileges for ever as well as permanent subsides apparently.
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Sorry the founding fathers gave natives this position, not us. The constitution clearly distinguishes Native Americans. And our numerous treaties recognize them as nations. Maybe we shouldn't have recognized their sovereign status in the first place? :D

Highlighted is completely wrong and false. I haven't made that argument once.



No one is suggesting giving these rights to anyone else.
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False, and this isn't the thread for it. If you want to advocate other peoples' rights then create a "other persons' general thread" and I'll join you there for discussion.
 
ponderingturtle said:
So we should give blacks these rights too right? But for some reason not people who came here as fugitives.

I really need to see your rights heirarchy of what groups get what rights and what groups don't.
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Irrelevant and bogus argument, blacks weren't recognized as sovereign nations by treaties, Native Americans were. Stay on topic and stop lying.
 
ponderingturtle said:
So we should give blacks these rights too right? But for some reason not people who came here as fugitives.

I really need to see your rights heirarchy of what groups get what rights and what groups don't.
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You're not getting this.

So you are ok with the US just ignoring any treaty it has made in the last 200 years or can the US choose the ones it should ignore based on a risk analysis of the proposed military threat from the opposing nation?
 
seayakin said:
You're not getting this.

So you are ok with the US just ignoring any treaty it has made in the last 200 years or can the US choose the ones it should ignore based on a risk analysis of the proposed military threat from the opposing nation?
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Which treaty said Indians get their very own Congressional delegation?
 
L.Y.S. said:
Most Native Americans don't want to leave America. Most want to have a greater say and a greater amount of autonomy.
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Again wanting your cake and eating it too- more independence and more support from the government. Honestly, you don't see the hypocrisy with your position?
 
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Neally said:
Again wanting your cake and eating it too- more independence and more support from the government. Honestly, you don't see the hypocrisy with your position?
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Hypocritical? It's a matter of U.S. law. The U.S. should've made different laws if it didn't want to have to deal with the issue.

WildCat said:
Which treaty said Indians get their very own Congressional delegation?
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seayakin said:
That's LYS position not mine.
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Seayakin is right, this is my position. But the fact that reservations are recognized as sovereign nations, should be reason enough to give them some greater form of representation. The only reason you want to deny them this right is because you fear that this will undermine U.S. sovereignty. That's all this is about. When in fact it will make America stronger, unite us, and make America look less hypocritical. Your ideas are all based on lies and fear.
 
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L.Y.S. said:
Seayakin is right, this is my position. But the fact that reservations are recognized as sovereign nations, should be reason enough to give them some greater form of representation.
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Non sequitur.

A sovereign nation would get no representation at all. Canada is not represented in Congress, neither is Mexico or France.
 
WildCat said:
Non sequitur.

A sovereign nation would get no representation at all. Canada is not represented in Congress, neither is Mexico or France.
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Yet congress has no power in Mexico, France, or Canada. It does have power over Native American nations and it can create laws for them. It can not create laws for other nations.
 
L.Y.S. said:
Yet congress has no power in Mexico, France, or Canada. It does have power over Native American nations and it can create laws for them. It can not create laws for other nations.
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There's a lot of Latinos in America. Should a proportion of the seats in congress be set aside for Latinos? What about Chinese?
 
To be honest I skimmed a lot of this thread :p .

The talk about "they can move" reminds me of other post-segregation groups, like inner-city Blacks and Aboriginal Aussies. I think it is disingenuous to cling to such "free movement" when the facts on the ground are very much set against it. It takes a lot of money to move even for middle class families and they would be severing the social support system they have. We have plenty of people who are similarly "stuck" in low income, low education areas, so I don't think getting over their Injun pride is the solution. In fact I doubt that dissolving the reservations altogether would change much. Cyclical poverty and the negative social outcomes are very messy even within the White Man's land.

Personally I would very much like to research the issue more, but I always stick to my self-determination bias for why we still have the reservations.
 
Virus said:
There's a lot of Latinos in America. Should a proportion of the seats in congress be set aside for Latinos? What about Chinese?
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That's not really apt at all. And I think L.Y.S. already said that that since none of those are recognised as sovereign, they are not being discussed.
 
L.Y.S. said:
I would be more than willing to give up my land so that Natives can enjoy a better existence.
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Let us know when you have given up your land to Native Americans. Preferably with evidence that it was actually done. Okay?
 
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