Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Caper]

London John,

Since you seem most familiar with this case, I will ask you. Is that stomach contents of the victim in this case and the computer evidence from the boyfriend (closing of the movie file) the biggest piece if evidence to support Amanda Knox's and her boyfriends innocence? I would think it is. Was wondering if you felt the same.

 

[Verklagekasper]

Do you reject the notion of coerced false confessions outright, and if so why?

I don't reject it outright, but I don't believe it. The reason is that I've seen coverage of the first process. What I've seen did not look like a fragile girl frightened by police but like a self-confident woman who wasn't too bothered by the situation she was in.

 

[Machiavelli]

I'm wondering if perhaps there are language/translation issues in your perspective. Nowhere in the handwritten note of Nov 6 does Knox falsely accuse anyone or demonstrate "malice and manipulative deception".

If you believe she accuses Lumumba in that letter, then I'm afraid you simply don't understand english well enough.

Don't take that as an insult, I'm a native english speaker and live in Sweden. Most Swedes speak english many orders of magnitude better than most Italians, and I encounter regular misunderstandings. Indeed the fact Swede's speak English so well makes misunderstandings more likely, as both sides tend to assume they understand everything.

The hand written note is a false accusation, in English as well translated into any other language. Don't take it as an insult, but maybe you don't understand the law.

 

[Keeper]

I'm wondering if perhaps there are language/translation issues in your perspective. Nowhere in the handwritten note of Nov 6 does Knox falsely accuse anyone or demonstrate "malice and manipulative deception".

If you believe she accuses Lumumba in that letter, then I'm afraid you simply don't understand english well enough.

Don't take that as an insult, I'm a native english speaker and live in Sweden. Most Swedes speak english many orders of magnitude better than most Italians, and I encounter regular misunderstandings. Indeed the fact Swede's speak English so well makes misunderstandings more likely, as both sides tend to assume they understand everything.

If it's not an odd question, do you like cricket?

 

[Keeper]

Can I ask a question about the translator? I read about the behaviour of the translator but also remember complaints about no translator being present.

At what points during her questioning did Knox have a translator present?

Thanks.

 

[icerat]

The hand written note is a false accusation, in English as well translated into any other language. Don't take it as an insult, but maybe you don't understand the law.

So let me get this right - you're not disputing there was no accusation made against lumumba, your disputing my belief that since there was no accusation means there cannot have been a false accusation ....

uhuh.

 

[CDHost]

I will not anyone free of writing "many people in my town thinks he is mentally unstable". I think who one writes this, has to prove it.

That wasn't what the claim was over. The claim against her parents was over repeating Amanda's claim that she was struck in interrogation. And they can point to transcripts and Massei as proof of the claim that Amanda said such things.

As for saying people think he is mentally unstable. That is not an accusation of him having committed a crime, it is an accusation that he is unfit for office. That is not calumnia. But using your example as if it were the statement in question... it is a criticism of a public official in terms of capacity to perform their duties. Absolutely that is protected speech, that is arguably the most protected form of speech.

If you se this as an equivalent of Stalin or Inquisition, in my opinion you are making a very inappropriate link.

Reread what I wrote, I was pretty clear that the inquisition never did anything of the sort when confronted with quotes of sworn statements. Even they wouldn't go that low. Stalin is just the only example of someone I can think of who held the Magnini position. If you can think of a better example then present it.

This is very stupid. The people who think about malice or conspiracy on these grounds, should also think at the rationale behind it. Four hard drives control boards were damaged; but then the data was recovered from three.

Actually no it wasn't. The data was not recovered. It was permanently lost. If the data had been recovered no one would have been agitated about it.

The fourth drive is unrelated to defensive claims, except for the claim of happy photos together which is something totally irrelevant. if this was willfull and planned, what was the purpose of this damage (followed by repair)? Where is the logic?

Well in Raffaele's case to prevent him from having an alibi for the hours around 11:00-11:30 when Mignini, contradicting his own Medical Examiner, was claiming a murder was taking place. If Raffaele was using his computer he was slicing up and raping Meredith in another part of the city.

Even worse for Magnini would be if it showed evidence of Amanda's usage, though that was less likely.

No, I see Mignini sueing criminals. Just like I believe Bruce Fisher is a criminal and I would sue him if I were Migninior Stefanoni or Guede. What does it mean to sue people for "accusing Amanda for crimes she didn't commit?". Who accused her?

The media, your PMF friends. Lets start with unproven statements about different drugs.

She was indicted (actually she is indicted, and convicted). That's not Mignini's task to sue possible Amanda's accusers. His duty is to sue the accusers of himself.

I agree that on statements related to a the murder they should have immunity. But not for anything else, using his logic. Under my logic of course they would, as she is a public figure.

 

[icerat]

If it's not an odd question, do you like cricket?

(a) It is an odd question
(b) yes

 

[snook1]

Aaah, the famous translator and her even more famous suggestion that Amanda was traumatized and she should really try to imagine something.

But the question is a good one. I, too, was confused about the translator issue.

 

[Keeper]

(a) It is an odd question
(b) yes

Yeah, guess there was no 'if' about that really

I saw someone from Stockholm arguing a similar pov on a cricket forum and their writing style is not dissimilar to yours. Although Stockholm could have more than one pro-innocent cricket lover I guess.

 

[Mary_H]

Read about all the lies in Knox's account before her false accusation. Everything she says in her e-mail is false: that is a false and fictional story. This can be proven.

Then why do you continually refuse to prove it?

The police "built" no false story.

Amanda realized that an unknown stranger had been in the house (her admission). He also knew that there was blood in the bathroom, that the front door was left open but no one was around,

So you think Amanda and Raffaele committed the murder without Rudy, since Rudy was an unknown stranger to her?

that Meredith didn't answer and her door was closed. She felt a sense of disconfort by her own admissio as she realized these things, she felt this sense of worrying as an urge to leave immediately the house.
If she had been innocent, she would have had anyway all reaons to worry, to consider possibility of danger.
She did not even call Meredith or check if she was there in that moment. Her behaviour would be in any case unacceptable. This failure to give alarm is also a crime. This person is dangerous and deserves no trust.

Did Meredith not answer or did Amanda not call Meredith or check if she was there? Make up your mind.

Nonsense. This is false. There was no black man's hair. There was a long blonde straight hair instead. Moreover "black man's" hair do not exist: a hair does not say anything about skin colour. All this makes no difference.

You say this only because your hair takes to cornrows so nicely.

Sollecito changed entirely his story, withdrew her alibi, and accused her of having asked him to lie.
You are missing the detail.

Black man hairs, again. Ludicrous. They "might": are you speculating this on your own? where did she report about this "offer"? There is no claim of this, there is no evidence: this never happened.

No one is allowed to speculate now?

Amanda refused to speak before the judge and then decided not to speak for weeks. Sh could have made spontaneous declarations and chose not to make them. She admitted her confession was a false accusation only later, after Guede's arrest.
Amanda didn't say anything but lies.

Except for "(her admission)," that is, what you choose to believe when it is convenient for you.

 

[Diocletus]

The hand written note is a false accusation, in English as well translated into any other language. Don't take it as an insult, but maybe you don't understand the law.

Then why didn't Massei use the handwritten note as the basis for his calunnia conviction? Instead, he just used the two statements that were illegally taken during the night.

 

[icerat]

Yeah, guess there was no 'if' about that really

I saw someone from Stockholm arguing a similar pov on a cricket forum and their writing style is not dissimilar to yours. Although Stockholm could have more than one pro-innocent cricket lover I guess.

lol, nope, not me! Haven't been posting on any cricket forums. I guess we just both speak svenglish (svenska/english)

 

[smkovalinksy]

I wonder if there is truth to this closing statement RE Massei vs Hellman: I am assuming this is in effect more TJMK bravado and hyperbole, and nothing to be concerned about? ( and yes, thanks to Londonjohn, I no longer am impressed by "our Italian lawyers", but am wondering if there is anything to the piece):

A slam dunk in effect. Evidence overkill.

But few of the busy people in the US and UK media have read the Massei Report and no one in the media to our knowledge has extensively analyzed or quoted from it. None of the books out so far go into the Massei Report in depth.

WHY did the Italian Ministry of Justice fail to fully distribute the Massei Report, and in particular not post it on their website? And is the Supreme Court of Cassation aware of this huge shortfall in its distribution?

This is such a serious mistake that our Italian lawyers believe that the Supreme Court or even the President of the Republic of Italy if he is petitioned could throw out the entire Hellman proceedings, verdict and sentence.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

 

[icerat]

does that mean all Italian cases before the invention of the web are invalid?

 

[smkovalinksy]

does that mean all Italian cases before the invention of the web are invalid?

It would seem so. Do not know why I always expect that people will take defeat with calm, reasonable dignity.

 

[Katody Matrass]

I wonder if there is truth to this closing statement RE Massei vs Hellman: I am assuming this is in effect more TJMK bravado and hyperbole, and nothing to be concerned about? ( and yes, thanks to Londonjohn, I no longer am impressed by "our Italian lawyers", but am wondering if there is anything to the piece):

LOL, now this is quite a something

Italians forgot to put Massei's ("illogical and inadequate" as Hellmann said) on the net, from this follows that the trial must start over from the beginning

Looks like that guy nicknamed "Fast Pervert" running that site really got a mental breakdown after Monday

And if it's really a collective work by the major guilters, well, all I have to say is they wandered far into the la-la land. I guess recent events must have been hard on their sanity...

 

[icerat]

It would seem so. Do not know why I always expect that people will take defeat with calm, reasonable dignity.

though, more seriously, there could indeed be a law stating decisions need to be published on their website within a certain time frame. I (a) note they didn't cite any such law (b) doubt it would have any legal effect on the appeal anyway

 

[Diocletus]

LOL, now this is quite a something

Italians forgot to put Massei's ("illogical and inadequate" as Hellmann said) on the net, from this follows that the trial must start over from the beginning

Looks like that guy nicknamed "Fast Pervert" running that site really got a mental breakdown after Monday

And if it's really a collective work by the major guilters, well, all I have to say is they wandered far into the la-la land. I guess recent events must have been hard on their sanity...

Fortunately, PMF/TJMK DID put it on the net. So, that cured any defect and will save Amanda from going back to prison.

Oh the irony.

 

[Poppy1016]

As I have stated before, I believe that some of those claiming to believe in guilt, are merely practicing debating by taking the opposite view of nearly every item posted in regards to innocence. Those posters have no real desire to find the truth, but merely the opportunity to debbate. They are quite good at debating, but do not care about truth. Their arguments are beginning to sound desperate and outrageous, therefore it is obvious to me what they are doing. They could not possibly believe the many wild claims they make because they seem very intelligent. MOO.