Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[CDHost]

Agreed. Extradition would have to go through people high up in both governments. Despite the existence of the treaty, the evidence is so clearly lacking that I just don't see extradition even being requested, regardless of what the high court says. At any rate, the chances of any fair proceeding resulting in reinstatement of the conviction are zero. Given the expert testimony on appeal, this case is over.

The prosecutor should be worried about his own skin. The closing arguments at the appeal were an absolute disgrace to the legal profession. I was aghast that a closing argument consisting of nothing but character assassination and innuendo would even be allowed. They didn't even try to appeal to evidence. Just emotion and that Knox is a she-devil witch.

Showing the gory pictures of Meredith's dead body was particularly classy. Talk about insulting the victim and her family. It was also completely irrelevant to the guilt or innocence of the accused, and a naked attempt to be as inflammatory as possible to get the jury to ignore the complete lack of evidence. An American prosecutor who pulled that crap would have been cut off and found in contempt after about 20 seconds.

Oh absolutely. There are so many things Mignini does that would get an American prosecutor disbarred. The charges against Amanda's parents are what got me off the sidelines on this case. I don't think I'd ever heard of someone filing charges against a defendant's parents for repeating (not claiming personal information) sworn testimony.

Leaking false information to the press, like where Amanda's book was found, so as to influence a jury, is outright jury tampering. The Italian courts are completely out of control. This trial has made me fully agree with Berlusconi / PDL on that.

 

[Freddy]

It would be helpful for me if you could use your connections or your status as an Italian citizen to obtain the records documenting exactly what Amanda said on Day One. Please get Days Two, Three and Four while you're at it. If these records are not available, then what basis are you using for your persistent, unfounded, non-cited claims that Amanda was proven to have lied?

Didn't you know? Because of budget cuts, they didn't record the interrogations. That's right, they had money to bring in a bunch of detectives from Rome so that they could stay fresh while tag teaming Knox and wearing her down to the point of exhaustion in an all-night interrogation worthy of the Inquisition, but they didn't have the money to record an interrogation of their prime suspect in the biggest and highest profile murder case in the history of the town. Anyone buy that?

 

[Dan O.]

.

But for all the PMF crew and those intent on 'preserving' the 'integrity' of the ILE in Perugia, let me give you this:

I believe that the Perugia police and prosecutors were absolutely negligent in this case. I believe that they misguidedly railroaded Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito despite having utterly insufficient evidence to support any case against them. I believe that Mignini's conduct was utterly negligent in this case, but I also believe that he might have some kind of mental deficiency that led him to do so. I believe that Comodi was and is an utter disgrace to her position, given the ridiculous statements that have been attributed to her in the press and given the ridiculous and unsupported claims she made in court.

So, sue me.

Would you like a corn dog with that?

 

[Scorpion NITE]

Didn't you know? Because of budget cuts, they didn't record the interrogations. That's right, they had money to bring in a bunch of detectives from Rome so that they could stay fresh while tag teaming Knox and wearing her down to the point of exhaustion in an all-night interrogation worthy of the Inquisition, but they didn't have the money to record an interrogation of their prime suspect in the biggest and highest profile murder case in the history of the town. Anyone buy that?

I think that might be a tad unfair.

You see, they couldn't divulge the real reason why it was not recorded.

You see...the person who was to press the 'record button' had gone to the kitchen to make tea.

Chamomile tea...no less.

 

[Freddy]

I think that might be a tad unfair.

You see, they couldn't divulge the real reason why it was not recorded.

You see...the person who was to press the 'record button' had gone to the kitchen to make tea.

Chamomile tea...no less.

Is that the latest excuse? Because budget cuts were blamed at one point. It's hard to keep track, the story changes so frequently. Much like the prosecution's theory of the case. It's clear enough that either it was recorded and the recording destroyed because it made the police look bad, or else the police knew in advance it would make them look bad, so they didn't record it. There is no plausible innocent explanation I can think of. Can anyone help me out?

 

[HumanityBlues]

Didn't you know? Because of budget cuts, they didn't record the interrogations. That's right, they had money to bring in a bunch of detectives from Rome so that they could stay fresh while tag teaming Knox and wearing her down to the point of exhaustion in an all-night interrogation worthy of the Inquisition, but they didn't have the money to record an interrogation of their prime suspect in the biggest and highest profile murder case in the history of the town. Anyone buy that?

They did 36,000 different wiretaps associated with this case. The budget cut excuse is ********. They purposely didn't record the interrogation or they recorded it and got rid of it. Either way, Mignini is lying.

 

[Scorpion NITE]

Is that the latest excuse? Because budget cuts were blamed at one point. It's hard to keep track, the story changes so frequently. Much like the prosecution's theory of the case.

Erm...yes, of course....at least that's what Mr Mugninny told me. my friend.

Unfortunately, he never did disclose where the money came from for all those other recordings and the thousands of wiretaps etc...

 

[HumanityBlues]

Is that the latest excuse? Because budget cuts were blamed at one point. It's hard to keep track, the story changes so frequently. Much like the prosecution's theory of the case. It's clear enough that either it was recorded and the recording destroyed because it made the police look bad, or else the police knew in advance it would make them look bad, so they didn't record it. There is no plausible innocent explanation I can think of. Can anyone help me out?

Mignini mentioned the budget cut excuse in an interview with CNN I believe. I will try and find the translation for you.

ETA:

Here ya go

12’51’’ CNN: Why wasn’t there any video or transcript of those hours?

13’00’’ Mignini: Look, that’s, I was at the police station, and all the…let’s say…when I made investigations in my own office, I taped them. I taped them, we have an apparatus for that, and I transcribed them. For example, there’s the interrogation of the English girls, Meredith’s friends, it was all taped. The interrogations of Amanda in prison were taped, and then transcribed, and we have the transcripts of… But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else. Also because, I can tell you, today, even then, but today in particular, we have budget problems, budget problems that are not insignificant, which do not allow us to transcribe. Video is very important…I completely agree with you that videotaping is extremely important, we should be able to have a video recording of every statement [verbale di assunzione di informazioni] made Because what is said is very important, but it’s maybe even more important how it is said, the non-verbal language. Because from the non-verbal language you can [missing words].

15’14’’ Mignini: It isn’t only Amanda, it’s always like that. But I wanted to say that I agree with him that it’s fundamental, only there’s a problem, especially when the witnesses are so numerous, and in fact just recording, I mean recording the sound, isn’t enough according to me.

15’38’’ CNN: It doesn’t cost much, he says.

15’40’’ Mignini: Well we have significant budget problems, that’s what it is.

ETA 2: What's really amazing here is the people from the sick site translated Mignini's interview thinking he would come off well. The man is clearly a rambling idiot.

 

[Draca]

Andrea Vogt - Guilters on

One of the wicked step-sisters of Perugia is digging in to promote Amanda's guilt. Andrea Vogt insinuates she MAY still have been in volved. I wish I could conduct my own media Witch Hunt. I would torch this one.


andreavogt Andrea Vogt
#amandaknox judge says in recorded interview defendants "may know" or be responsible, but no proof, hence acquittal. http://bit.ly/n19D2i

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Italian gossip mag gives away free knife set w/copy of "amanda is free" edition. Spotted by @MaundyGregory: http://wp.me/p1v1KX-gA" #sowrong

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
@Telegraph has staff working this story from UK, Seattle, Italy: #amandaknox judge: She may know the 'real truth' http://tgr.ph/reimMN"

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Judge Hellman on TG1: Rudy knows truth. Sollecito & #amandaknox may too, but "judicial truth sometimes different from truth in reality."

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
What impact did airbrushing/tutelage of #amandaknox image by PR campaign ultimately have? Jury's still out. http://nyti.ms/reMLKn

 

[Minadin]

So, sue me.

Lash, I always appreciate reading your posts, especially on legal matters, as they are always well-reasoned and persuasive. I imagine that you're a pretty good attorney, based on that.

Therefore, isn't the above, probably bad advice?

(IANAL)

 

[RWVBWL]

Didn't you know? Because of budget cuts, they didn't record the interrogations. That's right, they had money to bring in a bunch of detectives from Rome so that they could stay fresh while tag teaming Knox and wearing her down to the point of exhaustion in an all-night interrogation worthy of the Inquisition, but they didn't have the money to record an interrogation of their prime suspect in the biggest and highest profile murder case in the history of the town. Anyone buy that?

Hi Freddy,
You must know that there had to have been some deep budget cuts if the police photographer also had to help collect DNA evidence, as per LJ:

To be clear: there was no proven mixed blood evidence. The swabs taken from the bowl of the sink contained mixed DNA, but this was very likely Meredith's blood plus Knox's DNA from normal washing or tooth-brushing. The video of the swab collection shows that the evidence in the sink bowl was extraordinarily improperly collected: the collector (who evidently doubled as the police photographer!) swabbed the sink in long, wide sweeps, almost as if trying to clean the sink rather than delicately collect forensic evidence

.
Budget cuts? Sure sounds like it!

I think that might be a tad unfair.

You see, they couldn't divulge the real reason why it was not recorded.

You see...the person who was to press the 'record button' had gone to the kitchen to make tea.

Chamomile tea...no less.

Too Funny, Scorpion NITE,
Here I had thought it was because the button pushers had gone over to Raff's pad and were surfin' the internet on his computer.
See you,
RW

 

[Fine]

How Amanda Destroyed Italy

Prior to the verdict, this article predicted the reaction by some people to the acquittal of the lovebirds.............

"Some observers go further - and say the entire Italian justice system is on trial. This is why left-leaning papers like La Repubblica and La Stampa have been warning that the Perugia appeal court should not feel bamboozled by the 'friends of Amanda'.

Yesterday, La Stampa talked of an international referendum on Italian justice that was building into a "tsunami" ready to crash over Italy." (HERE)

///

 

[Freddy]

Mignini mentioned the budget cut excuse in an interview with CNN I believe. I will try and find the translation for you.

ETA:

Here ya go

12’51’’ CNN: Why wasn’t there any video or transcript of those hours?

13’00’’ Mignini: Look, that’s, I was at the police station, and all the…let’s say…when I made investigations in my own office, I taped them. I taped them, we have an apparatus for that, and I transcribed them. For example, there’s the interrogation of the English girls, Meredith’s friends, it was all taped. The interrogations of Amanda in prison were taped, and then transcribed, and we have the transcripts of… But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else. Also because, I can tell you, today, even then, but today in particular, we have budget problems, budget problems that are not insignificant, which do not allow us to transcribe. Video is very important…I completely agree with you that videotaping is extremely important, we should be able to have a video recording of every statement [verbale di assunzione di informazioni] made Because what is said is very important, but it’s maybe even more important how it is said, the non-verbal language. Because from the non-verbal language you can [missing words].

15’14’’ Mignini: It isn’t only Amanda, it’s always like that. But I wanted to say that I agree with him that it’s fundamental, only there’s a problem, especially when the witnesses are so numerous, and in fact just recording, I mean recording the sound, isn’t enough according to me.

15’38’’ CNN: It doesn’t cost much, he says.

15’40’’ Mignini: Well we have significant budget problems, that’s what it is.

ETA 2: What's really amazing here is the people from the sick site translated Mignini's interview thinking he would come off well. The man is clearly a rambling idiot.

Much appreciated. How much does it cost to record an interrogation? The cost of a black DVD-R? That's what, 20 cents if you buy in bulk?

Does Italian law really allow a prosecutor to make all these statements to the press about an ongoing criminal case? Combined with the failure to sequester juries, that's a recipe for wrongful convictions in any high profile case. Very simple reforms would make the system much safer for the innocent without compromising the ability to convict the guilty. The first step is making an example of Mignini. His conduct has been, and continues to be, a disgrace to the legal profession.

 

[Minadin]

Well, to transcribe them, it might cost ~ $200 more, but even if you didn't do that, at least you would have the recording.

 

[Freddy]

Well, to transcribe them, it might cost ~ $200 more, but even if you didn't do that, at least you would have the recording.

Absolutely. Transcripts are very expensive. But as you said, the video itself is not, and that would be enough to determine whether any statements were voluntary. In fact, video is much more useful than a transcript for that purpose. But I think we all know that the failure to record the interrogation was not due to budget problems.

 

[moodstream]

Massei says they are guilty of murder for other reasons, entirely different.

The only reason I remember is the 'they chose evil'.

The key to this case is motivation. Normal people don't kill for no reason. Up until now, you and those supporting guilt have been able to get away with the speculation that Knox/Sollecito are not normal. That is the only way the motivations dreamt up could become plausible.

You can't do that anymore. Judge Hellman, in a recent interview, described the pair as clean cut, normal youths. The priest and the parliamentarian who got to know Knox in prison describe her as non-violent and unlikely to have perpetrated the crime. Those who knew either before the crime describe them in the most superlative terms.

But to the many millions who are only aware of the crime and follow the news, they are dependent upon the images crafted for them. It was possible to create a fictitious evil personality for Ms Knox. Just add sex and murder and you've got yourself a lot of interested people.

Something's changed. Those days are over. Soon, within a year, everyone in the US. Britain and Italy will have the chance to get to know Knox up close and personal. Everyone in Italy and interested people in Britain and the US will come to understand Sollecito's personality too. They will be able to judge for themselves.

Then, the guilter goose will be cooked. Knox will be just as she is, just as we saw her at the airport, and I have no doubt Sollecito is going to come across just as well.

No one except perhaps a few pmf'ers will doubt their innocence. I predict the Kerchers will accept it as well.

 

[Poppy1016]

If Italy is to ever improve it's standing in the eyes of the world, there are a few laws they should inact in their legal system. 1. Require legal representation when anyone is being questioned as a witness or suspect. 2. Require video and audio recording of ANY questioning session. Require that police inform anyone that is going to be questioned of their rights in advance of questioning. These enactments would greatly reduce the type of case we saw against AK & RS.

 

[Freddy]

The only reason I remember is the 'they chose evil'.

To be fair, he also cited a lot of other evidence that has since been completely discredited.

 

[Onofarar]

<snip>

Showing the gory pictures of Meredith's dead body was particularly classy. Talk about insulting the victim and her family. It was also completely irrelevant to the guilt or innocence of the accused, and a naked attempt to be as inflammatory as possible to get the jury to ignore the complete lack of evidence. An American prosecutor who pulled that crap would have been cut off and found in contempt after about 20 seconds.

I am afraid we have to let the prosecutors - Mignini, Flush(Comodi) and Co off the hook on that classy piece of legal legerdemain. That honor belongs to the Kerchers' OWN attorney - the slime ball Maresca. Hopefully, when they have some time to reflect on it this action in particular may crystallize the concept that they have been deceived throughout by Maresca. I am sure he promised the family if they would allow him to show the pictures in court it woud swing the jury panel in their favor.

 

[Freddy]

I am afraid we have to let the prosecutors - Mignini, Flush(Comodi) and Co off the hook on that classy piece of legal legerdemain. That honor belongs to the Kerchers' OWN attorney - the slime ball Maresca. Hopefully, when they have some time to reflect on it this action in particular may crystallize the concept that they have been deceived throughout by Maresca. I am sure he promised the family if they would allow him to show the pictures in court it woud swing the jury panel in their favor.

Could the prosecutors not have vetoed that? After all, such a stunt can easily backfire. People sometimes resent such blatant attempts to manipulate them, and I would think the prosecution would have the power to prevent Maresca from doing anything that they thought might damage their case. But the whole concept of the victim's family having a lawyer who presents evidence at a criminal trial is alien to me, and it seems like a terrible idea in general.