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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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smkovalinksy said:
I feel sorry for the Kerchers, and feel they were exploited by Mignini and Maresca. The likely truth is, their daughter surprised a burglar, and paid with her life. And he is sitting in prison for just this crime.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...mother-siblings-in-shock-at-knox-verdict.html
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I agree, this quote from Barbie's interview with the Kerchers may help to explain things. Lyle said :

Each time Knox's name makes headlines, the Kercher family grieves a little more. Lyle says he follows the press coverage of the developments and sometimes skims the blogs. “I skip the paragraphs describing the actual crime,” he says. “It's just too much to bear or look at.”
http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/politics/kerchers-we-cannot-forgive-1703310.story

I said that earlier that I doubted if the Kerchers reviewed the gruesome details, what family member could? I surely could not. Instead they rely on M&M for their input, and we know how distorted that is.

It's such a sad, sad story.
 
LondonJohn said:
... it's still cheaper to do things via commercial flights and overnight stays in hotels. But it's not an order of magnitude different....
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Just an observation here: A third alternative would have been to hire a private charter just from Perugia to London, then fly BA commercial on to Seattle. The short-haul charter would have been much cheaper than an intercontinental private flight, maybe not much more than the fares and hotel costs that they paid out, and it would also have made the statement that "I'm getting out of this country as fast as I can!" I'm frankly surprised that they didn't do it that way, unless it possibly had something to do with renewing her passport at the embassy in Rome.
 
Micromegas said:
No, she didn't. She just said she was at the house (since the cops falsely claimed they had evidence placing her there), cowering in fright while Lumumba killed Meredith.

I don't want you to think I believe this means Knox herself killed Kercher. But neither do I believe the woo-soaked notion that the police brainwashed her into fabricating an accusation against Lumumba. As for the cops exploiting Knox's trauma and nightmares, let's not be hypocritical here. The UK tabloids were wrong to revile Knox for not being sufficiently torn up about Kercher's death; if her behavior didn't betray trauma, that doesn't mean she was guilty. But it doesn't mean she was traumatized, either.

I'm just trying to make it clear that it's not so wacky to have been skeptical of Knox's innocence, given behavior like accusing an innocent man of a brutal murder. Are we allowed to be skeptical?

-Mike
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I look forward to an extremely detailed description from Amanda on the interrogation.

Now she can freely speak about it.
 
halides1 said:
Good point. I am not sure that the logical underpinnings of the guilty verdict are sound, besides having other doubts.
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The interesting thing about holding the 1:45 statement to be the product of illegal coercion, but not the 5:45 statement, is that it would drive a wedge between Mignini and the cops, and point the finger away from the judicial authorities (Mignini) and instead at the local cops. This is because the cops were responsible for the 1:45 statement (and the hitting, etc.), and Mignini was responsible for the 5:45 statement.

If the court does decide along these lines, which would make a lot of sense to me, it could make Mignini's appeal of Hellmann's verdict and the cops' slander claims against the Knoxes disappear very quickly after the Motivations are issued.
 
It seems like the issue of what the exact meaning of the not guilty verdict is one that can be determined categorically but it remains in dispute here.

1. Did Hellman specifically refer to 530.1 in the verdict? I just listened to a translation and I didn't hear him explicitly refer to 530.1.

2. Even if he didn't was his statement that the crime was not committed equivalent to a finding based on 530.1?

3. Bolint has stated that Italian law does not recognize two different kinds of not guilty verdicts any more. This is contradicted by a news article I saw and the apparent belief by Mignini that Italian law does recognize two different kinds of not guilty verdicts based on his discussion of 530.1 and 530.2. But it seems like Bolint didn't make up his claim out of thin air so what's going on here?

It seems like this issue might be important with regards to any civil trials remaining. Not guilty by reason of insufficient evidence to meet a beyond a reasonable doubt criteria might still leave open the possibility for a civil claim based on a preponderance of the evidence finding.

Disclaimer: From my perspective, this is all a bit academic. For all practical purposes a conclusion that RS/AK are completely innocent is justified.
 
daydreamer said:
I agree, this quote from Barbie's interview with the Kerchers may help to explain things. Lyle said :

Each time Knox's name makes headlines, the Kercher family grieves a little more. Lyle says he follows the press coverage of the developments and sometimes skims the blogs. “I skip the paragraphs describing the actual crime,” he says. “It's just too much to bear or look at.”
http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/politics/kerchers-we-cannot-forgive-1703310.story

I said that earlier that I doubted if the Kerchers reviewed the gruesome details, what family member could? I surely could not. Instead they rely on M&M for their input, and we know how distorted that is.

It's such a sad, sad story.
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It certainly is. If reasonably, the arrest of Rudy Guede had led to the Kerchers being given to understand that their beloved had died at the hands of a petty career criminal, during an escalation of a home burglary, they might have begun grieving when he was convicted (and as the sole culprit, he would be doing more time). By dragging Knox and Sollecito in, and filling their heads with bizarre stories, Mignini and Maresca selfishly did the Kerchers a grave disservice. They cannot even grieve properly.:( Theirs has been an unnecessarily protracted sorrow, on top of the sorrow which would have been present anyway, due to the untimely and violent death of their beloved daughter and sister.
 
Micromegas said:
No, she didn't. She just said she was at the house (since the cops falsely claimed they had evidence placing her there), cowering in fright while Lumumba killed Meredith.

I don't want you to think I believe this means Knox herself killed Kercher. But neither do I believe the woo-soaked notion that the police brainwashed her into fabricating an accusation against Lumumba. As for the cops exploiting Knox's trauma and nightmares, let's not be hypocritical here. The UK tabloids were wrong to revile Knox for not being sufficiently torn up about Kercher's death; if her behavior didn't betray trauma, that doesn't mean she was guilty. But it doesn't mean she was traumatized, either.

I'm just trying to make it clear that it's not so wacky to have been skeptical of Knox's innocence, given behavior like accusing an innocent man of a brutal murder. Are we allowed to be skeptical?

-Mike
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I think it is important to understand that the ILE were convinced of her guilt before the interrogation and accusation. The police chief said that they questioned her until she buckled and told them what they knew to be correct.

I don't object to them being diligent in their investigation but the interrogation was out of line and was a major part of making the investigation pathetic.
 
NoahFence said:
They're going to be granted their privacy. Just after their (paid) appearances on Nancy Grace, The View, 60 Minutes, TMZ, The Colbert Report, Sesame Street, etc..etc...etc....
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Are you as sure of this as you were sure they were taking a private jet?
 
Grinder said:
Are you as sure of this as you were sure they were taking a private jet?
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There's a quote button on the bottom of the box you're reading.

Find the post where I said they were taking a private jet, use that button and tell me I'm wrong.

Apologize when you can't find the quote.

Thanks.
 
Have we really come to a place on a skeptic forum where we're concerned about her to the point where we care what time the plane lands?

I'm sure we're going to be riveted by the whole scene, while hungry children die, murderous thugs rape and pillage the human race and the environment and hardworking people can't find a decent job.

But as long as we give this hottie her 15 minutes, we're all good.

Wake me when it ends.
 
Amanda-Knox-007.jpg


Amanda Knox: victim of Italian code which puts saving face before justice

US writer Douglas Preston argues that the rush to judgment over Meredith Kercher was to save prosecutor Guiliano Mignini, the police and the judiciary from public humiliation. Mignini has claimed that Preston is masterminding a US press campaign against him over his handling of the Amanda Knox case
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The overturning of the murder convictions of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito for the murder of British exchange student Meredith Kercher in Perugia, Italy, came as no surprise. The appeals trial showed that virtually all the crucial evidence used in the original trial to convict Knox and Sollecito was faulty, erroneous, worthless, or manipulated.

Acquittal was the only possible, rational verdict. Knox is already on her way out of Italy as fast as her family and friends can get her away. While the prosecutors may formally appeal to the Italian supreme court, the case is essentially over and Knox will never be extradited back to Italy.

But big questions remain. How could two innocent people be convicted of such a heinous crime, backed up by a 400-page opinion, spend four years in prison, and then have their convictions so resoundingly overturned? The answer lies in the Italian concept of face, la faccia, whose deep and pervasive power most Anglo-Saxons who have not lived in a Mediterranean country have a hard time appreciating.

The story begins almost a decade ago, long before Meredith Kercher's murder, when the pubblico ministero (public prosecutor) of Perugia, Giuliano Mignini, opened an investigation into the mysterious death of a doctor whose body was found floating in Lake Trasimeno in 1985.

Mignini believed the doctor was connected to a satanic sect, which had murdered him because he was about to go to the police and reveal its many crimes. Mignini believed this shadowy cult was connected to infamous murders committed by a serial killer known only as the Monster of Florence.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/04/knox-acquittal-only-possible-verdict
 
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