Split Thread Could the WTC columns have been covertly replaced by weaker versions?

[bill smith]

No. The idea is silly.Completely silly, for a number of reasons, I won't bother to list, since you are one of the few who can't see it, and you will ignore it anyway.



We don't even know if it was a 4 ton section.

Hans

Just for fun Hans try listing the rreasons why the columns on the impact side couldn't have been replaced with lighter, weaker sacsimsiles or the originals just weakened. I mean only the sections in the impact area.

Split from: New video of David Chandler: rockets at the World Trade Center.

Posted By: Gaspode

 

[Dash80]

Just for fun Hans try listing the rreasons why the columns on the impact side couldn't have been replaced with lighter, weaker sacsimsiles or the originals just weakened. I mean only the sections in the impact area.

Because people are not blind, they would notice this structural work occuring on the exterior of the building.

 

[bill smith]

Because people are not blind, they would notice this structural work occuring on the exterior of the building.

Not if they hung that green netting over the work areas Dash like we all see every day.

 

[bill smith]

Because people are not blind, they would notice this structural work occuring on the exterior of the building.

Not if they hung that green netting over the work areas Dash like we all see every day on tall buildings.

 

[deeper]

Not if they hung that green netting over the work areas Dash like we all see every day on tall buildings.

You mean the green netting they cover scaffolding with?

 

[Dash80]

Not if they hung that green netting over the work areas Dash like we all see every day on tall buildings.

Debunking yourself there bill, the netting doesn't make structural work or scaffolding invisible. It would still be visible. People would still be able to see this work going on.

I find it really funny that you think green netting placed over an area spanning 5-7 floors and some 150ft in width would go unnoticed.

 

[NoahFence]

Not if they hung that green netting over the work areas Dash like we all see every day.

??

So people wouldn't have noticed the green netting?

Just stop. Really.

 

[Dash80]

??

So people wouldn't have noticed the green netting?

Just stop. Really.

Not the special invisi-net our NWO construction workers use, nobody can see that or whatever is behind it... Magic!

 

[twinstead]

InvisiNet^tm ROCKS!

 

[NoahFence]

Not the special invisi-net our NWO construction workers use, nobody can see that or whatever is behind it... Magic!

You know, I think they may have used a giant tarp, printed to mimic the exterior of the trade towers, put that over the green netting, and put the green netting over the exterior walls.

I'm still trying to figure out how the office workers didn't notice the construction port-a-potties in the middle of the aisle. I'll get back to you on that.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Not if they hung that green netting over the work areas Dash like we all see every day on tall buildings.

That's to prevent construction material from falling on the heads of people below. But go ahead and think that it's CAMOUFLAGE.

 

[TsuDhoNimh]

Just for fun Hans try listing the reasons why the columns on the impact side couldn't have been replaced with lighter, weaker facsimiles or the originals just weakened. I mean only the sections in the impact area.

The columns came in pre-fab sets of 3 box-beams 30 feet long, connected by being welded to 3 sheets of steel that had the floor support flanges welded to it. The unit overlapped floors, so removing one column affects 4 floors.

Each set was bolted into place on top of the lower set, with access holes in each end of the columns. The horizontal connectors were bolted to the next set of columns. The floor supports (steel pan with truss under it) were bolted to the flanges and concrete was poured into the pan. Then the columns were covered by an aluminum cladding (bolted to the steel) that also provided the mounting for the windows.

Just for fun, let's step through replacing ONE column in the impact zone (at any time post-occupancy) with a lighter, weaker version.

1. Put a suitable crane in place above the column you with to work on.
2. Remove the 8 windows at the sides of the column, being careful not to drop them. Set them aside.
3. Remove the interior wall finish as necessary around the window area on all four floors to expose the aluminum cladding retaining system bolts and the 2 access holes for the column bolts.
4. Remove the aluminum cladding to expose the column exterior and set it aside.
5. Secure the column to the crane that will lower it.
6. Unweld the column from the spandrels (There are 6 welds, each about 30 inches long, on the outside of the spandrel.)
7. Unbolt the top and bottom of the column.
8. Hammer on the column until you free it from the columns above and below it.
9. Lower the column to the ground, being careful not to let wind smash it into any part of the building.
10. Hoist the weaker replacement column into place, being careful not to let wind smash it into any part of the building.
11. Hammer on the column to wedge it into position between the columns above and below it.
12. Bolt the column to the columns above and below it.
13. Weld the column to the spandrels.
14. Unfasten the column from the crane, reel in the cable.
15. Replace the aluminum cladding and the windows that you set aside during step 2.
16. Repair the interior finish to cover all traces of your activity.
17. Repeat as desired.

NOTE: Removing and replacing a 3-column unit could probably be done without any welding, but you need to remove more windows and cladding, destroy more interior wall finish, hammer out some of the concrete flooring to expose the floor pan bolts, and get a bigger crane.

 

[GlennB]

The columns came in pre-fab sets of 3 box-beams 30 feet long, connected by being welded to 3 sheets of steel that had the floor support flanges welded to it. The unit overlapped floors, so removing one column affects 4 floors.

Each set was bolted into place on top of the lower set, with access holes in each end of the columns. The horizontal connectors were bolted to the next set of columns. The floor supports (steel pan with truss under it) were bolted to the flanges and concrete was poured into the pan. Then the columns were covered by an aluminum cladding (bolted to the steel) that also provided the mounting for the windows.

Just for fun, let's step through replacing ONE column in the impact zone (at any time post-occupancy) with a lighter, weaker version.

1. Put a suitable crane in place above the column you with to work on.
2. Remove the 8 windows at the sides of the column, being careful not to drop them. Set them aside.
3. Remove the interior wall finish as necessary around the window area on all four floors to expose the aluminum cladding retaining system bolts and the 2 access holes for the column bolts.
4. Remove the aluminum cladding to expose the column exterior and set it aside.
5. Secure the column to the crane that will lower it.
6. Unweld the column from the spandrels (There are 6 welds, each about 30 inches long, on the outside of the spandrel.)
7. Unbolt the top and bottom of the column.
8. Hammer on the column until you free it from the columns above and below it.
9. Lower the column to the ground, being careful not to let wind smash it into any part of the building.
10. Hoist the weaker replacement column into place, being careful not to let wind smash it into any part of the building.
11. Hammer on the column to wedge it into position between the columns above and below it.
12. Bolt the column to the columns above and below it.
13. Weld the column to the spandrels.
14. Unfasten the column from the crane, reel in the cable.
15. Replace the aluminum cladding and the windows that you set aside during step 2.
16. Repair the interior finish to cover all traces of your activity.
17. Repeat as desired.

NOTE: Removing and replacing a 3-column unit could probably be done without any welding, but you need to remove more windows and cladding, destroy more interior wall finish, hammer out some of the concrete flooring to expose the floor pan bolts, and get a bigger crane.

So, what's the problem?

 

[TsuDhoNimh]

So, what's the problem?

You have to do work on 4 contiguous floors, plus the crane location, simultaneously, without anyone noticing you are there. No one feels a draft from the missing windows, the welding fumes don't trigger a fire alarm, no one sees the crane or the stuff you are hoisting, no one sees your crew working on the exterior, no one hears the crane or the welding or the hammering.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

You have to do work on 4 contiguous floors, plus the crane location, simultaneously, without anyone noticing you are there. No one feels a draft from the missing windows, the welding fumes don't trigger a fire alarm, no one sees the crane or the stuff you are hoisting, no one sees your crew working on the exterior, no one hears the crane or the welding or the hammering.

Glenn was joking man. He's one of the good guys. Trust me.

 

[GlennB]

You have to do work on 4 contiguous floors, plus the crane location, simultaneously, without anyone noticing you are there. No one feels a draft from the missing windows, the welding fumes don't trigger a fire alarm, no one sees the crane or the stuff you are hoisting, no one sees your crew working on the exterior, no one hears the crane or the welding or the hammering.

I'm sorry. Didn't even mean to post that. While I was wondering about adding a I went off on another rant in a different thread. Ah, the fun we have

 

[Dash80]

So, what's the problem?

Hehe. It could be done, but not without anyone noticing such a major alteration taking place high up on New York's two tallest, highly visible skyscrapers. You would think someone would mention that...

Eyewitness: "It's weird y'know because where those planes hit there was major work going on in the weeks before, taking out column assemblies."

Bill lives in fantasy land as usual, I don't even think he really believes the stuff he spews out. It's just desperate trolling, I'm foolish for responding to it I know... but train wrecks are fascinating.

ETA: I know you were kidding but I felt like hammering the point home a bit more for bill.

 

[Animal]

The columns came in pre-fab sets of 3 box-beams 30 feet long, connected by being welded to 3 sheets of steel that had the floor support flanges welded to it. The unit overlapped floors, so removing one column affects 4 floors.

Each set was bolted into place on top of the lower set, with access holes in each end of the columns. The horizontal connectors were bolted to the next set of columns. The floor supports (steel pan with truss under it) were bolted to the flanges and concrete was poured into the pan. Then the columns were covered by an aluminum cladding (bolted to the steel) that also provided the mounting for the windows.

Just for fun, let's step through replacing ONE column in the impact zone (at any time post-occupancy) with a lighter, weaker version.

1. Put a suitable crane in place above the column you with to work on.
2. Remove the 8 windows at the sides of the column, being careful not to drop them. Set them aside.
3. Remove the interior wall finish as necessary around the window area on all four floors to expose the aluminum cladding retaining system bolts and the 2 access holes for the column bolts.

1. 
   
   Remove existing finished ceiling in the area of work.
   
   

   [*] Remove the aluminum cladding to expose the column exterior and set it aside.

   
   Shore up the existing floor plate in the area of the column to remove load.
   Then you would have to remove the load of the column above the part you are removing by some sort of jack mechanism to remove the load off the column.
   
   

   [*] Secure the column to the crane that will lower it.
   [*] Unweld the column from the spandrels (There are 6 welds, each about 30 inches long, on the outside of the spandrel.)
   [*] Unbolt the top and bottom of the column.
   [*] Hammer on the column until you free it from the columns above and below it.

   
   That would be impossible without removing the load as described above.
   
   

   [*] Lower the column to the ground, being careful not to let wind smash it into any part of the building.
   [*] Hoist the weaker replacement column into place, being careful not to let wind smash it into any part of the building.
   [*] Hammer on the column to wedge it into position between the columns above and below it.
   [*] Bolt the column to the columns above and below it.
   [*] Weld the column to the spandrels.
   [*] Unfasten the column from the crane, reel in the cable.
   [*] Replace the aluminum cladding and the windows that you set aside during step 2.
   [*] Repair the interior finish to cover all traces of your activity.
   [*] Repeat as desired.

NOTE: Removing and replacing a 3-column unit could probably be done without any welding, but you need to remove more windows and cladding, destroy more interior wall finish, hammer out some of the concrete flooring to expose the floor pan bolts, and get a bigger crane.

 

[bill smith]

Hehe. It could be done, but not without anyone noticing such a major alteration taking place high up on New York's two tallest, highly visible skyscrapers. You would think someone would mention that...

Eyewitness: "It's weird y'know because where those planes hit there was major work going on in the weeks before, taking out column assemblies."

Bill lives in fantasy land as usual, I don't even think he really believes the stuff he spews out. It's just desperate trolling, I'm foolish for responding to it I know... but train wrecks are fascinating.

ETA: I know you were kidding but I felt like hammering the point home a bit more for bill.

As you say Dash it could certainly be done. And when better than when WTC2 was pwered down for 36-odd hours the weekend before 9/11.
http://911review.com/errors/wtc/forbes.html

 

[TsuDhoNimh]

Remove existing finished ceiling in the area of work.

Ceiling tiles ... the usual office thing.

Shore up the existing floor plate in the area of the column to remove load.

Then you would have to remove the load of the column above the part you are removing by some sort of jack mechanism to remove the load off the column.

But, but ... that's where the REALLY BIG HAMMER comes in.