Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[snook1]

With us so far ??

Who do you mean by us? Is there someone else in the room with you?
Ding Dong, perhaps?

Excuse me, but judicial procedures sometimes are not that easy to understand. Yes, I'm a dork.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Yeah, the saving face part will be tricky indeed. To be honest, that;s something that I fear the most.

Ideally, this should not be about saving face. This should be about overturning an unfair conviction, or upholding the conviction, if it is found to be fair. Hellman came from outside Perugia so he could view all objectively. Italian nationalism should not play a part here. But this is ideally. Realistically, who knows...

 

[Ammonitida]

For me, one thing is for sure. There will be no upholding, nor increasing the sentence. This is out of the question.

The reduced sentence is rather a mysterious one.

Acquittal is, for me, most possible.

After seeing the gender make-up of this jury, I'm now bracing myself for a conviction that recommends an increased sentence with several months of solitary confinement. When I first saw that jury photograph, my heart just dropped.

 

[bolint]

Barbie Nadeau
Latest universinet.it poll on verdict. 48% guilty 44% not guilty in Amanda Knox case. Of guilty responses 68% are female.

 

[smkovalinksy]

After seeing the gender make-up of this jury, I'm now bracing myself for a conviction that recommends an increased sentence with several months of solitary confinement. When I first saw that jury photograph, my heart just dropped.

OMG, we are twins, as I knew it was finished for Amanda when I saw the picture of the jury.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Barbie Nadeau
Latest universinet.it poll on verdict. 48% guilty 44% not guilty in Amanda Knox case. Of guilty responses 68% are female.

Surprise, surprise.

 

[bolint]

Barbie Nadeau
Latest universinet.it poll on verdict. 48% guilty 44% not guilty in Amanda Knox case. Of guilty responses 68% are female.

This seems to be the original:

Sondaggio su Amanda Knox: per le ragazze è colpevole, per i maschi no

Leggi tutto: http://www.cronacalive.it/sondaggio...-colpevole-per-i-maschi-no.html#ixzz1Ze6PXsTa

ROMA / Sono colpevoli secondo un sondaggio condotto tra le ragazze universitarie Amanda Knox e Raffaele Sollecito. E’ quanto emerge dai numeri di un test condotto dal portale Universinet.it. Se per 7 ragazze su 10, per l’esattezza il 68%, i due giovani sono colpevoli, tra i ragazzi invece le proporzioni si invertono. Solo il 21% dei ragazzi ritiene che Amanda sia colpevole.
In generale gli intervistati, in totale 6130, si dividono equamente proprio tra colpevolisti e innocentisti. I primi al 48% i secondi al 44%. Chi ritiene Amanda e Raffaele innocenti pensa che non ci siano prove sufficienti (72%), chi punta il dito contro di loro adduce soprattutto due motivi: Amanda avrebbe mentito troppe volte dopo l’arresto (45%) e avrebbero fatto uso di droghe e ucciso (43%).
Per i colpevolisti, colpisce dunque il fatto che Amanda abbia cambiato troppe volte la versione dei fatti

Leggi tutto: http://www.cronacalive.it/sondaggio...-colpevole-per-i-maschi-no.html#ixzz1Ze6ANbZF

 

[moodstream]

We are now witness to a change of messaging from those who believe in guilt:
No longer are Amanda and Raffaele acquitted (or convicted) of the crime until the Supreme Court confirms the ruling of the appeal court.

Weren't they the ones using the circular logic after the Massei ruling that they are guilty because they were convicted by Massei?

Just asking...

Yes, but the difference this time is that Knox and Sollecito will be free to respond directly to any accusations. I predict that no more than 30 days after they are released from captivity virtually no one will think they are guilty. That included Pilot Padron and Lion King. Once you see them in person, in interviews, read interviews with them, the truth will be obvious to all.

The only reason there is any question of her innocence is because Mignini has successfully created a wall between K/S and the world, creating the opportunity to give some credence to the prosecutions idiotic construction of events.

That is why I am inclined to believe that although Knox and Sollecito will be acquitted, they will not be freed.

 

[Ammonitida]

OMG, we are twins, as I knew it was finished for Amanda when I saw the picture of the jury.

There is still a smidgen of hope here. Hellmann and pretty Raff who is due to give statements on Monday (though the defense lawyers would be wise to not let Amanda give statements).

 

[moodstream]

After seeing the gender make-up of this jury, I'm now bracing myself for a conviction that recommends an increased sentence with several months of solitary confinement. When I first saw that jury photograph, my heart just dropped.

I have always had concerns about the jury. It is supposed to be *randomly chosen by computer*. So how did it end up so lopsidedly female?

 

[js202]

After seeing the gender make-up of this jury, I'm now bracing myself for a conviction that recommends an increased sentence with several months of solitary confinement. When I first saw that jury photograph, my heart just dropped.

My girlfriend and I went out to dinner on Thursday night here in NYC with two other couples; one man and woman were from Italy. The topic of Amanda Knox came up, and the male Italian jokingly said, "Ah, don't worry, we have put up Amanda in our very best hotel!" As if on cue, the woman pitched in: "There are no innocent people who are convicted."

I looked up to see my girlfriend looking at me sympathetically, bit my tongue, and then excused myself to go to the men's room to recompose myself. Suffice it to say that we will not be having dinner in the company of this couple again.

With admiration for posters like LondonJohn who have argued for an exclusively rationalist and intellectual approach to this case, I confess I can't help but be somewhat emotional in the face of this kind of stupidity.

 

[bolint]

Andrea Vogt
Culinary sources in Perugia say a catering service is organizing lunch & dinner Monday for Amanda Knox jury. Long deliberations?

Not big surprise.
This judge paid always attention to lunches.

 

[Ammonitida]

I have always had concerns about the jury. It is supposed to be *randomly chosen by computer*. So how did it end up so lopsidedly female?

If the computer part is true, then there would have to be more women judges in Italy than men. Much more. I find that unlikely though.

 

[bolint]

I have always had concerns about the jury. It is supposed to be *randomly chosen by computer*. So how did it end up so lopsidedly female?

It is not so lopsided.
In 7 cases of the total of 64 possible cases this happens (0 or 1 male)
Similarly 7 cases for the corresponding "lopsidedly male" jury (0 or 1 female).

 

[smkovalinksy]

There is still a smidgen of hope here. Hellmann and pretty Raff who is due to give statements on Monday (though the defense lawyers would be wise to not let Amanda give statements).

True. And I agree, Amanda should keep her mouth shut.

 

[smkovalinksy]

My girlfriend and I went out to dinner on Thursday night here in NYC with two other couples; one man and woman were from Italy. The topic of Amanda Knox came up, and the male Italian jokingly said, "Ah, don't worry, we have put up Amanda in our very best hotel!" As if on cue, the woman pitched in: "There are no innocent people who are convicted."

I looked up to see my girlfriend looking at me sympathetically, bit my tongue, and then excused myself to go to the men's room to recompose myself. Suffice it to say that we will not be having dinner in the company of this couple again.

With admiration for posters like LondonJohn who have argued for an exclusively rationalist and intellectual approach to this case, I confess I can't help but be somewhat emotional in the face of this kind of stupidity.

 

[moodstream]

It's more than that. It's that they convicted her on behavior much less extreme than she devil. They made hay over the cartwheels, kissing, buying sexy underwear, eating pizza, and other "odd" behaviors.

The PG sites have spread stories of pranks, insensitive remarks made to co-workers, diving into a mud puddle and more. They have argued whether she was a psychotic or just a sociopath Mignini even used a british tab report on the noise ticket that was totally bull.

A priest saying she shows none of the bad behaviors does have value even if not in court.

That's right. Lion King was saying character evidence did not matter because people with good character kill. However, in this case Knox's character is key to guilt or innocence. Obviously, if she is a stable, well adjusted woman, she did not commit the crime. There is no motive as the prosecution admits. Knox and Sollecito both would have to be unhinged. It is not the thing normal people do, even if high.

So the question I still put to Lion King is, are the several character testimonials credible, especially the ones by the priest and the parliamentarian?

Also, I was think the most credible of all may the the Italian prisoner who wrote a book favoring Knox. She could have made a fortune describing Knox as a wild vixen. (btw -Does anyone remember the article where Nadeau implied Knox was having a lesbian relationship in jail?). But she did not, instead she published a book favorable towards knox.

And speaking of jail house witnesses, where were Mignini's? Where are Knox's co prisoners who are willing to tear down Knox's image of innocence? Or Sollecito's? Don't tell me Mignini is reluctant to call them! They don't exist... that's the truth.

 

[JREF2010]

No. He gives it for the murder night.

The satan seeking prosecutor ignored a lot if information too.

 

[bolint]

In the first instance trial jury there were 2 men and 3 women and one with the name Andrea which in Italian could be either male or female, though male is much more likely.
The assistant judge was female.

 

[pilot padron]

Pretty uncomplimentary from one who has dealt with her

Patrick Lumumba

1) called her 'the world’s best actress' in an interview with Britain’s Sunday Times.

2) says: He is living proof of her guilt.

3) says: I went to prison unjustly. I was called an assassin. Who said that? Amanda. I'm the proof that she is involved in the murder.

The 'actress' comment seems particularly timely in view of tomorrow's widely anticipated 'spontaneous declaration'.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2011/10/02/knox-is-world-s-greatest-actress.html