Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[smkovalinksy]

Good grief, look at this.

Rolfe.

Well, sentimental, yes - she was a beautiful and vibrant young woman, but is she less so if Knox and Sollecito are innocent? Why can she not be a beautiful martyr if she died at the hands of Guede? Why are Knox and Sollecito so necessary to her image for them? Let others answer this....

 

[Rolfe]

Ok I assume you accept that one significant difference between Amanda and Meredith is that one was brutally murdered whilst the other (Amanda, just to clarify) is appealing her conviction for the others (Meredith) murder! So in your mind what is more relevant is that they (Amanda and Meredith) and the following in common; sex, drugs, alcohol and partying habits!

Have I missed some here?

Yes, pretty much the whole point.

It was a matter of pure chance which of these two very similar students was the murder victim. It was Meredith's appalling luck that she was the one to return to the empty flat while Rudy was lurking. Another evening, or slightly different circumstances, and it could have been Amanda.

And if it had been, it could have been Meredith who returned to find the locked door and the broken window, and said or did a couple of things the Keystone Cops found suspicious.

The way it is, it's Meredith who is the pure perfect saint, and Amanda who is the witch and she-devil.

But it's pure chance it wasn't the other way about, and in that case, there's no reason the characterisations wouldn't have played the other way too. Because the girls were actually very similar. Neither saints nor demons, just students. Smoking pot and drinking beer and sleeping with their boyfriends.

If you're the murder victim, you're a saint. If you're the unfortunate who is wrongly accused, you're obsessed with sex, drugs and alcohol. All on the same behaviour set.

Rolfe.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Actually, I think the reason so many of us focus more on Amanda is because Raffaele is not the one being so loosely and viciously and groundlessly called names like "double-souled witch," "Luciferina," "seductress," and etc. Poor Raffaele spends much of his time suspended in a vacuum amidst this despicable calumny. I'd also note that, though it might have benefited his case *years ago*, Raffaele has never joined in in these accusations of Amanda.

If nothing else, this case has revealed a profoundly backward misogyny in Italy, and even if I believed Amanda Knox guilty, I would be incredibly offended by this. It is an absurd diminution of Western Civilization as a whole in the 21st century, for God's sake.

Come on don’t blame misogyny on the Italians; that’s what sells newspapers; that what makes people tune into their particular news channel around the western world.

 

[smkovalinksy]

“Million Dollar Campaign” To Try To Influence The Jury Is Being Widely Reported To A Startled Italy

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

It looks like a perfect storm is flaring up in Italy for the hapless Knox PR campaign. Just about every media outlet in Italy seems to be running a variation of this report.

Next Monday will see delivered the verdict against the girl in prison since 2007 on charges of murder of her British roommate Meredith Kercher. The decision was confirmed today by a judge of the court in Perugia.

Meanwhile there transpires shocking news: The Amanda Knox clan has spent a million dollars to change her image and influence the jury. This is one of the allegations made by the prosecutor during the summations of the appeal of Amanda Knox.

“Have you ever seen a defendant who takes on a large public relations firm?” asked the prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, which the people on the benches behind the lawyers deny. “Behind her was a communication campaign for a million dollars.”

The much touted executive jet waiting at the airport to whisk her home gets considerable mention in a very negative way, as does the fact that a freed Knox stands to make many millions.

 

[Rolfe]

Just one other thing. Does PMF honestly believe that Marriott is powerful enough to order all those journalists to Perugia? Ganong's latest blog certainly suggests it. Is there any logic in that? Just curious.

If Marriott was that powerful, these press articles would be a lot more positive than they are. And we'd have heard about real people (not mischievous trolls) having been offered money to write in a certain way.

Rolfe.

 

[js202]

Ok I assume you accept that one significant difference between Amanda and Meredith is that one was brutally murdered whilst the other (Amanda, just to clarify) is appealing her conviction for the others (Meredith) murder! So in your mind what is more relevant is that they (Amanda and Meredith) had the following in common; sex, drugs, alcohol and partying habits!

Have I missed some here?

Yes, you have missed Rolfe's point entirely. I hope for your sake that this is out of deliberate obtuseness, because it should have been plain enough to any person of average intelligence.

 

[yeti101]

So in response to your comment, I wonder if you have ever defended yourself against an onslaught of a professional?

yes the police accusing me of a crime I didn't commit.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, you have missed Rolfe's point entirely. I hope for your sake that this is out of deliberate obtuseness, because it should have been plain enough to any person of average intelligence.

Thank you. I have tried to explain it again, but I have little hope that he will comprehend.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Well, sentimental, yes - she was a beautiful and vibrant young woman, but is she less so if Knox and Sollecito are innocent? Why can she not be a beautiful martyr if she died at the hands of Guede? Why are Knox and Sollecito so necessary to her image for them? Let others answer this....

I just thought the animation was incredibly tacky. There are some very nice photos of Meredith around, but that montage is something else.

Rolfe.

 

[Dougm]

I think this was pure Mignini, trying to score a point against the story about the executive jet.

I wouldn't be surprised if the travel arrangements were tricky, because of the parents' health issues. However, I seriously doubt the sudden "can't afford the fare" thing. It smells like pure theatre. Which is why I would hope the Kerchers might be a little embarrassed if they realise the posters on PMF are putting the hat round, and people who themselves have very little are prepared to make sacrifices to this end.

Rolfe.

Probably the thing I agree with most is that someone should have been helping the Kerchers with the expenses to get to Perugia, weather they can afford them or not. I do think it must be hard for them, with the trial changing dates, and the health issues of the parents.

 

[js202]

Come on don’t blame misogyny on the Italians; that’s what sells newspapers; that what makes people tune into their particular news channel around the western world.

Oh? Are the press responsible for putting those words in Mignini's, Maresca's and Pacelli's mouths?

I most certainly do place the blame on the Italians. I doubt very seriously I will ever return to their country again. The French have now permanently won my affections in the old debate over the respective merits of those two ancient European cultures.

 

[smkovalinksy]

I just thought the animation was incredibly tacky. There are some very nice photos of Meredith around, but that montage is something else.

Rolfe.

It was. But did you get my point?

 

[smkovalinksy]

Probably the thing I agree with most is that someone should have been helping the Kerchers with the expenses to get to Perugia, weather they can afford them or not. I do think it must be hard for them, with the trial changing dates, and the health issues of the parents.

I think it would behoove Maresca to pay the airfare and hotel.

 

[Rolfe]

It was. But did you get my point?

Yes. You said, let others answer this. So I'll let them....

Rolfe.

 

[Dougm]

Rolfe's a she.

Tell me then, why did she refer to them in the same way (sainted etc) and what have the Kerchers to be embarrassed about?

I knew that (that Rolfe is a she) actually. Forgot.

She was not referring to the Kerchers, which has been explained multiple times. She was referring to the PMFers, and how they make the Kerchers out to be "sainted". The implied idea is that no one is "sainted", not Knox, or the Kerchers, or anyone involved. It doesn't mean there is a thing wrong with them. Any reference to the Kerchers being embarrassed was about being embarrassed about how they are referred to by others, not any actions of their own.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

If you're the murder victim, you're a saint. If you're the unfortunate who is wrongly accused, you're obsessed with sex, drugs and alcohol. All on the same behaviour set.

Do you believe that Amanda parents would rather swap places with the Kercher family, because the way you post you make Meredith and Amanda’s current (unfortunate) positions appear to be more or less the same?

If it were one of my daughters I would rather her be alive than a saint!

 

[AmyStrange]

I think it was the conflicting statements of the two which created the arrest. At first they were together all night then he says they were not and she says she's not sure if they were together or not.

-

I'm not saying you are wrong CH, and I'm not trying to be mean here; it's just that Amanda saying she can't remember if Raffaele was with her and then saying she confusedly remembers Patrick doing this and then Meredith doing that and then holding her hands over her ears, but not one thing else about Raffaele. It's like she was excluding him from her statement.

I just don't buy it, because the question still remains the same. Why did they arrest Raffaele? Because she doesn't remember him being there? Nope sorry. Not buying it.

But that is just my opinion,

Dave

 

[smkovalinksy]

Yes. You said, let others answer this. So I'll let them....

Rolfe.

You were the others I had in mind.

 

[Rolfe]

Do you believe that Amanda parents would rather swap places with the Kercher family, because the way you post you make Meredith and Amanda’s current (unfortunate) positions appear to be more or less the same?

If it were one of my daughters I would rather her be alive than a saint!

That comment has precisely NOTHING to do with the point I was making. Amanda is alive. Unless she becomes suicidal, she will always be better off than Meredith, no matter what happens. And her family still have her, which is better than not having her, no matter the circumstances.

But that is SO not what I was saying.

Neither Amanda nor Meredith is/was a saint. Neither is or was a she-devil either. They were similar girls. It is ridiculous to canonise Meredith, who smoked pot and got drunk and was sleeping with a slightly dodgy character. It is ridiculous to vilify Amanda, who was doing almost exactly the same thing.

If Amanda is a murderess because she "was into sex and drugs and alcohol", then almost every student there ever was is a potential killer. Including Meredith.

Rolfe.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Yes, you have missed Rolfe's point entirely. I hope for your sake that this is out of deliberate obtuseness, because it should have been plain enough to any person of average intelligence.

Well clearly I am below average intelligence or maybe I just have a different perspective.

It’s interesting; I have no need to question yours or anyone else’s intelligence simply because you have a different perspective, or dear I say it; opinion. I’ll shuffle back to my cave now whilst my knuckles drag on the floor.