Merged Does CERN prove Einstein wrong?

[Border Reiver]

If there is any information about who owns all the debt in the world, then the top owners could be identified. I doubt however that such statistics is available to the public.

So, no then?

 

[Anders Lindman]

Not really. This isn't bleeding-edge; this is basic comprehension of special relativity, necessary to perform any of the calculations done on a daily basis by astronomers, particle physicists, or even people designing GPS systems.

Any college student with a physics background should be able to give you the same answer. That you appear to have found someone who when given some phrasing of a question disagrees is, well, of no importance.

GPS devices using relativity calculations would definitely show that Einstein's relativity is true.

"each GPS receiver has built into it a microcomputer that (among other things) performs the necessary relativistic calculations when determining the user's location." -- http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html

Except, if the satellites somehow could send fake codes to the receivers in a way that they add relativity adjustments just to fake Einstein's relativity! A far-fetched conspiracy theory? Not compared to faking the moon landings. Or faking nuclear weapons!

 

[twinstead]

The first years after the 9/11 attacks I totally believed in the official 9/11 story. It didn't even enter my mind to question it. I would say that I was way too gullible then. Today I look at all kinds of speculative theories. But I'm willing to drop theories if they turn out to likely be false.

I have not seen you exhibit the ability to drop theories if they turn out to likely be false. You have a propensity to ignore evidence contrary to your opinions, this nuclear weapon thing is a good example.

You see, I consider you the gullible one for falling for some of your "speculative theories". The saying goes, if you open your mind too much, your brains fall out.

 

[Anders Lindman]

So, no then?

At least as far as I know. I have no interest in investigating it further. If there is any truth to the theory then it's a good idea to play it safe.

 

[nomuse]

Well, there are grad-student experiments that are fairly trivial -- take an extremely accurate clock in a plane, or just to the top of a campus building.

Or you can calculate the position of Mercury and compare it with observation. Or you can point a scope in the right direction to witness a nice gravitational lens. These are all done daily.

 

[Travis]

He is right about Little Boy not being tested, though. They figured nothing significant could go wrong. Fat Man, like Trinity, was the much trickier implosion type -- which also allowed them to use a more-available material.

As far as "failures" go, the Demon Core demonstrated a thorough willingness to go supercritical at any opportunity. I bet it was a relief to finally scatter the thing into plutonium dust across the desert at Los Alamos.

Actually I think the Demon Core got scattered across the South Pacific.

 

[Anders Lindman]

I have not seen you exhibit the ability to drop theories if they turn out to likely be false. You have a propensity to ignore evidence contrary to your opinions, this nuclear weapon thing is a good example.

You see, I consider you the gullible one for falling for some of your "speculative theories". The saying goes, if you open your mind too much, your brains fall out.

Some time ago I dropped the theory that Jackie Kennedy shot JFK. Now I believe it was the driver who pulled the trigger, with a remote control push button. And Jackie held JFK in a position to create a free passage for the bullet(s) from the bottom of the backseat of the car. Not so kooky theory as it first might seem, when you investigate it a bit.

 

[beachnut]

So what has Einstein's relativity theories to do with the atom bomb?

E=mc², 1905. You are making joke...

Einstein published his theory of general relativity 1916, almost 30 years before the first atom bomb. Some conspiracy researchers say that the ruling elite make plans stretching several decades, so who knows, maybe the main purpose of Einstein's bogus theories was to decades later fake a super weapon.

Bogus? E=mc² is not Bogus, your claims are Bogus.
Special Relativity, 40 years prior.

Another possibility is that Einstein's theories were published as a smokescreen for the real physics, such as discovered by Nikola Tesla involving zero-point energy and things like that. Only a few people are selected in universities to become real scientists, working above the public level, while the rest are fed disinfo science like Einstein's relativity theories (that not even experts seem to really know how to really apply for even such simple things as the velocity between two photons).

Delusional nonsense.

And, here is another speculative theory; the real science would have the capability to create REAL super weapons, which could be used to simulate atom and hydrogen bomb explosions. And even more speculative: Nuclear power plants are using another technology than they claim, such as water fuel cells, which would create hydrogen explosion risk in the case of some disaster, and that is actually what happens. Hydrogen explosions that they claim come from some incredible reaction with a special metal. Also, the nuclear disaster in Japan probably didn't produce any radioactivity if this outrageous conspiracy theory is true.

Real science and physics made real super weapons, A-bombs, and H-bombs. There is no way to simulate a real hydrogen bomb explosion.

Doctor Heinz Doofenshmirtz tells me one kg of U238 has 20 terajoules of energy, and one kg of TNT only has 4.6 megajoules of energy.

To simulate a nuke you need 4,350,000 more times TNT than the Uranium used for the atom bomb, but you will be missing the excess radiation and other radiation issues you don't get from simulation. But you don't do science, so you don't know why your claims are crazy. Wait till we get to fusion, which runs the sun and H-bombs which has many time more the energy of uranium. Why lie about science?

You deny the sun exists. good job

 

[tsig]

I'll tell you what, I can't even imagine living in Ander's world where all the scientists on Earth are in on some kind of plot to fake nuclear bombs. Worse, they are all apparently in on the plot to hoax the WTC collapses.

Hell, I'd be paranoid too

They brought down the towers using nuclear bombs they don't have.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Well, there are grad-student experiments that are fairly trivial -- take an extremely accurate clock in a plane, or just to the top of a campus building.

Or you can calculate the position of Mercury and compare it with observation. Or you can point a scope in the right direction to witness a nice gravitational lens. These are all done daily.

My guess is that putting accurate clocks in planes is something they only do in rich gatekeeper scientists projects, and with fake data published in prestigious scientific journals. Students doing their own experiments with clocks will always come up with the conclusion that the precision in their measurements wasn't high enough. Gravitational lensing is simply a result of photons having mass. No need for Einstein's relativity there. The position of Mercury is a curious one. Can the effect of relativity really be measured through the position of Mercury?

 

[Anders Lindman]

To simulate a nuke you need 4,350,000 more times TNT than the Uranium used for the atom bomb.

You deny the sun exists. good job

Not so much TNT is needed. At the end of this video clip a mushroom cloud is created with only 100 tons of TNT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VANyY87-_Q

The sun is a fusion process, not a fission process.

 

[nomuse]

My guess is that putting accurate clocks in planes is something they only do in rich gatekeeper scientists projects, and with fake data published in prestigious scientific journals. Students doing their own experiments with clocks will always come up with the conclusion that the precision in their measurements wasn't high enough. Gravitational lensing is simply a result of photons having mass. No need for Einstein's relativity there. The position of Mercury is a curious one. Can the effect of relativity really be measured through the position of Mercury?

Nope. Chronometers accurate enough to detect relativistic effects are no longer rare playthings. And you could always scale up; the first experiment I was aware of involved taking a long-distance flight on a commercial airline. Nowadays, a good university physics department can do things like detect the effect of Earth's gravity well over a distance smaller than the height of one of the students!

Plus, well, relativistic effects are seen in the outer parts of the observable universe. So that's, again, the kinds of things any observatory (or graduate-level astronomy program) can and does deal with on a frequent basis.

 

[Anders Lindman]

They brought down the towers using nuclear bombs they don't have.

I recently learned about a new theory about how the WTC towers were largely hollow! First I thought it was a totally outrageous theory, but it's actually a valid theory. And someone said that the dust plumes from the towers were caused by cement sacks planted inside the buildings. Could be! These are not theories I believe in yet, but with more research I would if they could show some evidence.

 

[nomuse]

Not so much TNT is needed. At the end of this video clip a mushroom cloud is created with only 100 tons of TNT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VANyY87-_Q

The sun is a fusion process, not a fission process.

It isn't the shape, it is the size. All large explosions form the same mushroom cloud. They don't proceed quite the same, however! The problem you are confronting is that yield is calculable. One can measure the crater. And you arrive at tonnages that are simply unrealistic for conventional explosives.

(And that's not even mentioning such things as the neutron flux, or the radioisotope remnants)

 

[dasmiller]

GPS devices using relativity calculations would definitely show that Einstein's relativity is true.

"each GPS receiver has built into it a microcomputer that (among other things) performs the necessary relativistic calculations when determining the user's location." -- http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html

Except, if the satellites somehow could send fake codes to the receivers in a way that they add relativity adjustments just to fake Einstein's relativity!

Actually, no, they couldn't. Users in different places will have different motions relative to the GPS spacecraft. If the GPS signal was manipulated to trick one, it would be completely off for everyone else.

A far-fetched conspiracy theory? Not compared to faking the moon landings. Or faking nuclear weapons!

So, how many people do you figure are involved in these conspiracies? There would have to be thousands of us them just for GPS, wouldn't there?

 

[Anders Lindman]

Nope. Chronometers accurate enough to detect relativistic effects are no longer rare playthings.

I remain skeptical. I don't think students can pull off these kinds of experiments successfully.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Actually, no, they couldn't. Users in different places will have different motions relative to the GPS spacecraft. If the GPS signal was manipulated to trick one, it would be completely off for everyone else.



So, how many people do you figure are involved in these conspiracies? There would have to be thousands of us them just for GPS, wouldn't there?

If the relativity for the GPS receivers can't be faked, then that would be a strong indication that Einstein's relativity is true. Because otherwise all the manufacturers of GPS devices would be a part of the conspiracy which is probably a bit unlikely.

But what about this theory: The resolution for public GPS is so crude that adding or not adding adjustments for relativity makes no difference in the receivers.

 

[Anders Lindman]

It isn't the shape, it is the size. All large explosions form the same mushroom cloud. They don't proceed quite the same, however! The problem you are confronting is that yield is calculable. One can measure the crater. And you arrive at tonnages that are simply unrealistic for conventional explosives.

(And that's not even mentioning such things as the neutron flux, or the radioisotope remnants)

Can you find any video on the Web with a large mushroom cloud? Or of a large crater? They all look like possible 'model' clouds to me. (With the disclaimer that I haven't specifically searched much for large mushroom clouds.)

 

[dasmiller]

If the relativity for the GPS receivers can't be faked, then that would be a strong indication that Einstein's relativity is true. Because otherwise all the manufacturers of GPS devices would be a part of the conspiracy which is probably a bit unlikely.

But what about this theory: The resolution for public GPS is so crude that adding or not adding adjustments for relativity makes no difference in the receivers.

I know that you won't be satisfied to take my word on this, but that's simply not the case. I actually have a friend who writes GPS receiver software, and I've done a lot of GPS performance analysis myself (for more esoteric types of GPS performance). And I clearly remember working through one particular set of 'real' data and getting answers that were subtly but consistently wrong, and then someone said "relativistic effects!"

So we quickly did the basic relativistic corrections, and I remember thinking "Well, there it is!"

 

[Roboramma]

So common sense becomes wrong. Oh, what a con artist Einstein was. He could even make people abandon their common sense.

Let's say the earth is orbiting the sun, and spinning on it's axis, rather than the celestial spheres rotating above us. Common sense tells us that we'd go flying off the planet. Common sense tells us that the winds would destroy everything on the planet's surface. Common sense tells us that a dropped ball would fall not down, but sideways.

Oh, what a con artist Copernicus was. He could even make people abandon their common sense.

Luckily, Anders and I realise the truth, the earth is not moving!