Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Rolfe]

Hey, I have done my share of posting!! I have a message for that Gogerty-Marriott bunch!

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!

They really do believe this. I came across a post yesterday simply taking it as read that an army of people were being paid by the tweet. PMF posters frequently wish aloud that Gogerty-Marriott would update its script of approved talking-points because they think they've heard it all before. And so on.

The homoeopaths think there's a well-funded conspiracy paying people to argue against them too. Hence the "anti-homoeopathy illuminati" joke. They can't imagine that they're simply wrong, and people like to point out when others are wrong in the hope that they'll become less wrong, or at least that third parties will realise that they're full of it.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

We don't know if these 6 lay persons on the jury [....] have a proclivity to view her and Sollecito as suspect.

Maybe not, but Dave made an extremely good point about that above.

Rolfe.

 

[DarkStar2011]

Because you see it was made up, not true, and was a talking point fed to Deanna by the Gogerty-Marriott supertanker who have been paid $2 million and counting so far to manipulate public opinion to be favourable to Knox. They're paying everyone here who posts as if they believe in Amanda's innocence, and they probably paid Conti and Vecchiotti to falsify their report to the court.

O.K. I just started posting here a few days ago, so fill me in...when should I be expecting my first check?

 

[Dougm]

They really do believe this. I came across a post yesterday simply taking it as read that an army of people were being paid by the tweet. PMF posters frequently wish aloud that Gogerty-Marriott would update its script of approved talking-points because they think they've heard it all before. And so on.

The homoeopaths think there's a well-funded conspiracy paying people to argue against them too. Hence the "anti-homoeopathy illuminati" joke. They can't imagine that they're simply wrong, and people like to point out when others are wrong in the hope that they'll become less wrong, or at least that third parties will realise that they're full of it.

Rolfe.

I think the reason the guilters keep reading the same points over and over is because they have not ever been able to explain why those points are not true.

 

[JREF2010]

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Bob,

I guarantee Amanda and Raffaele will be acquited. Here is the post where I explain my reasoning for saying this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7619778#post7619778

Dave

interesting...

what do you think?
the police where out to get Amanda (Raffaele was a unavoidable)....or was this gathering of the police and local "team" a normal response to being attacked from the outside-world, aka all the attention?

I dont really believe the conspiracy because they had many opportunity's to frame them but didnt, but at the same time there was the obstinate behavior of the prosecution and Stefanoni etc...which makes it seem like they went out of their way to build the case against them (maybe ignoring evidence in the defense favor)...

 

[komponisto]

There are comments here saying that Hellman allowing the verdict to be televised shows that he's going to aquit, because he wouldn't beam Raff and Amanda's disappointed faces around the world.

Massei's guilty verdict was televised.
I do think we overdo the certainty of the aquittal here at times. It appears to be more likely that they will be set free, but you can't trust anything in this case.
To those who thought that they'd go free in the last trial, Massei was of an obviously different cast to Hellman in virtually every little decision he made. There wasn't really anything he ever granted to the defense.

The decision to allow televising of the verdict means only that there is a large amount of media interest in the case.

(Also, the Massei verdict was the press-room feed. I think Hellmann may have granted the use of cameras in the actual courtroom.)

There are plenty of good reasons to believe the verdict will be acquittal:

1. the Conti-Vecchiotti report;
   
2. the appointment of Conti and Vecchiotti;
   
3. the fact that Amanda and Raffaele are factually innocent;
   
4. the fact that a substantial portion of first-level decisions in Italy are overturned;
   
5. the denial of the prosecution request for a re-review of the knife and clasp;
   
6. the denial of other prosecution requests (e.g. relating to records);
   
7. Hellmann's comment about the possibility of contamination other than in the lab;
   
8. Zanetti's comment about Meredith's death being the only certainty in the case;
   
9. Comodi's comment about the possibility of acquittal;
   
10. the tone of recent media coverage.

As you can see, Hellmann's TV decision doesn't even figure in the top ten.

 

[Dougm]

O.K. I just started posting here a few days ago, so fill me in...when should I be expecting my first check?

Get in line, buddy!

Actually, I am way, way behind several of the folks here, who have been fighting the good fight for a long time, explaining why the case against Amanda and Raffaele makes no sense. It is always interesting to see new posters, lwho says basically "I read up on this case, and did not understand what the big deal was, then I spent some time reading about it, and holy moly, I said WTF is going on here!! These kids are clearly innocent!!

But of course, according to the guilters, anyone who thinks that is delusional, and would only post that opinion because we are being paid by some PR firm in Seattle. What I have never heard explained is, where did the $2 million come from? If the Knox/Mellas clan did not have a daughter behind bars, they would have to find this kind of stuff really humorous.

Let's hope they get to laugh about it soon.

 

[DarkStar2011]

Rolfe,

maybe they just have issues with women who are free of sexual hang-ups?

That might have a lot to do with it, but there's one other factor -- Sollecito is a native Italian, while Knox is -- gasp! -- an American.

Don't overlook the provincialism and bigotry that exist elsewhere in the world regarding U.S. citizens. Having grown up (part of my youth) in Europe, I can vouch for it. There's a certain feeling, not altogether unjustified, that Americans feel like they can barge in, disregard the mores of the other country, and shove their own standards down everyone else's throats. (And I would expect that feeling to be especially strong in Italy, after the experience of the skiers killed through carelessness by USAF pilots, plus those pilots walking away scot-free.)

Don't get me wrong -- sexism plays a large part in this case. But I think there was the notion that "here's another American, coming here and thinking she could easily get away with murder." Certainly, had Amanda Knox been an "Italian girl" from Rome, Naples, or Milan, I doubt she would ever have been a suspect in the case at all -- or, at worst, the unwilling, manipulated tool of her boyfriend.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Maybe not, but Dave made an extremely good point about that above.

Rolfe.

Yes. And I would agree with him. (in terms of the incendiary remarks about Amanda paralleling the sentiments in Salem, and the reversal of the Oedipus complex)...But that does not give one much hope, then. ETA: Or maybe you are referring to his guarantee of acquittal, which I am just now reading....

I NOW GUARANTEE (RIGHT HERE AND NOW) THAT AMANDA AND RAFFAELE WILL BE ACQUITTED OF ALL CHARGES INCLUDING (if Hellmann is even half the critical thinker I believe him to be) THE "ACCUSATION OF LUMUMBA" SLANDER CHARGE!!!

How can I say this? It's possible because I know enough about jury psychology to be able to point out that if Maresca's tactic had actually worked, every one on the jury (judges and lay-judges) would have been so incensed at Amanda and Raffaele that not one of them would have laughed the next day at the eskimo nose kissing reference made by Ms. B.

Some (if not all) of the jury actually laughed with the defense here. Think about that. Can you drop any bias you might have and actually have the ability to wrap your mind around this idea? Let me ask you this. Did Mignini (if he was awake) laugh at this?

You can ridicule or deride or argue the point with me all you want, but I don't care, because you'll see for yourself in less than a week,

Dave

This is good psychology, and I hope it holds up. It seems it should...

 

[DarkStar2011]

that sounds almost sadistic, if its not an acquittal.

But would it be thought as sadistic, if you really thought they were guilty? I can imagine it would be, if you thought they were innocent but intended to convict them again anyway, but, if you thought they really did all the prosecution charged them with, you might find having the world see their reactions when once again justly found guilty to be their just desserts.

 

[lane99]

What I find odd here is that it is Amanda who is demonised and not Raffaele....But why didn't we hear any of that being levelled at the boy? Why only Amanda the she-devil?

I think it really is some sort of deep misogyny...

Yes, it's one very plausible explanation. Some sort. Rooted in cultural differences that will now seem anachronistic to most, in say, the UK or North America.

The notion is developed further in the book which is being discussed (at this very moment, apparently) on blogtalkradio.

...Next you'll be telling me she didn't always wait for the green man at crossings either!...

Ha. Indeed.

Or that she sometimes played the music too loudly during parties.

Oh, wait, they've already nailed her for that. And the anti-Knox culties trumpeted it as proof that she had a "criminal record".

 

[AmyStrange]

O.K. I just started posting here a few days ago, so fill me in...when should I be expecting my first check?

-

Hi DarkStar2011,

well I've been posting here since June, but only just received my driver (which is really annoying because all he does is sit around going vrooom vrooom and then eats all my twinkies), but the Mercedes is no where to be seen.

Bastards,

Dave

 

[Dan O.]

Has anyone ever suggested the cops put it there? Are there any reasons not to suppose this?

The lamp would have been plugged into the extension cord that crosses the floor just inside Amanda's room. If anyone had wanted to use that lamp to light Meredith's room after the murder, they would have left it plugged into that cord so as to cause minimal disruption in the murder room. That the cord is not moved is indication that the lamp was moved prior to the murder and this would most likely have been done by Meredith sometime in the preceding week.

 

[theRealBob]

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Bob,

I guarantee Amanda and Raffaele will be acquited. Here is the post where I explain my reasoning for saying this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7619778#post7619778

Dave

I have no inerest whatsoever in arguing against them going free. It's obviously what I want to see happen, and the only fair result.
But in this case you never know do you.

They have posted on the dark side that Hellman has previously stated an interest in some position at the top of the Peruggian Judiciary and he'd have to be a brave man to ruffle so many feathers.
He also has the option, after being sickened by the offal they currently have mis-running the show, to really get into them and be the one that cleans it all out.

I personallly want to see Mignini, Steff and co come under serious attack and really suffer the full consequences for their roles in these trials.

They deserve to have their lives ruined.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Ron Hendry on arresting Rudy

But how could they have known to find and arrest him as early as that? It took time for the fingerprint to come up against his immigration records, which was what did it, and by then he was in Germany I think. Then they had to get his DNA to see it it matched the unknown that was coming up from the crime scene. It wasn't immediate.

But they still tracked him down, with the help of his friend of course, and that part of the investigation went perfectly. A fair collar, competently carried out.

If only it hadn't been for the side-show and the intransigence and the face-saving....

Rolfe.

Rolfe,

Ron Hendry wrote that it would have been possible to arrest Rudy very quickly.

 

[charlatan]

But how could they have known to find and arrest him as early as that? It took time for the fingerprint to come up against his immigration records, which was what did it, and by then he was in Germany I think. Then they had to get his DNA to see it it matched the unknown that was coming up from the crime scene. It wasn't immediate.

It's always been a little unclear to me exactly when and how the authorities identified Rudy. Certainly the police should have realized the palm print was critical to their investigation. It shouldn't have taken them more than a couple days to run it, and they wouldn't have needed DNA to make him a person of interest. Plus, investigators (at least according to what they told Amanda) were asking her friends about any and all men who might have come in contact with Meredith. If they hadn't had their hands full wiretapping Amanda and Raffaele they might have had more time for good old-fashioned detective work, like checking lists of names against criminal records and police reports.

 

[theRealBob]

I agree; despite hopeful signs it is not a done deal, in any sense. We don't know if these 6 lay persons on the jury have been absorbing all the propaganda about Knox for 4 years, or if they have a proclivity to view her and Sollecito as suspect. In the first trial, I don't recall actually seeing the verdict live, though. There were reporters on the courthouse steps moments after it was announced, which they translated into English. But I did not know the defendants faces were shown.

I am certain that there are people who post here who are substantially more in touch with the case than the jurors.

Also I hate both Raff and Amanda's lawyers, they're worse than useless. Some of the regulars here who have posted that the best defense is to read out in court, just a list of slanderous misppropriated evidence one item after another (and how bad the cops were at every twist and turn) are right, and would do a 1000% better job than R & A's overpriced defence teams.

 

[AmyStrange]

I have no inerest whatsoever in arguing against them going free. It's obviously what I want to see happen, and the only fair result.

But ni this case you never know do you.

Bob,

I understand what you mean. I used to be worried big time about what was going to happen, but not anymore, because I now know exactly what's going to happen.

It was like one of those new fangled religious revelations you hear about now and again.

Check it out for yourself (right under my highlighted guarantee):

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7619778#post7619778

It might not convince you 100%, but trust me. You won't regret it.

 

[Grinder]

O.K. I just started posting here a few days ago, so fill me in...when should I be expecting my first check?

For all you claiming not to be getting your just deserts please PM me your SS#, bank account number and mother's maiden name.

I'll make sure to take of you all forthwith!

 

[theRealBob]

It was a news clip, la stampia or something.

here's what I think is different than the Massei trial...
today the President of the Court, Claudio Pratillo Helllmann, gave his permission to "live television coverage and photo shoots during the reading of the device." In the front row, to film the reactions of two main suspects, including the likes of CNN networks worldwide. The fateful verdict is expected on Saturday and Monday, but for many the game is not yet closed.

is the news piece totally correct ? IDK...
I havent found any other articles claiming the same.

I dont recall, maybe Massei did allow photographers in the front row to film the reaction of the suspects?



that sounds almost sadistic, if its not an acquittal.

I guess we can guess for a few more days....then the verdict will be read.

It's possible that even Massei wasn't that sadistic.

If you're right about the cameras showing the defendants faces it does sound like a certain aquittal.
I hope you're right.

If Hellman despatches the right people to where they really belong, I think that when this is all done and dusted the Solleitos are going to go after everyone......BIG TIME