Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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You know, when you think outside the box about this, why didn't Patrick tell the court Amanda wasn't there while he was up there pleading for two hours in front of the court?

You want to know why he didn't?

BECAUSE HE WASN'T THERE!!!

So how could he say anything about Amanda not being there?

Just like Amanda wasn't there either,

which is why she couldn't tell anyone he wasn't there either?

Dave
 
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I don't see how she could have known who killed Meredith. But I didn't realize Patrick pleaded innocence before her eyes. I would like to know if that hearing provided a way for her to clarify that she had NOT been at the cottage and had NOT seen Patrick at the cottage.

All three were there, lawyered up, before Matteini so it could have provided a way to clarify.
Amanda, however, exercised her right to silence.
 
how on earth would she know that Patrick was innocent?

Knowing the real murderer provides some clue.

She's already retracted the confession after writing the note and been accused of 'changing her story.' Therefore she's no longer saying she was at the cottage and thus couldn't know if Patrick was there

There she was before Matteini and she did not retract anything. She opted for silence.
 
Would you mind saying a bit more about that?

I assume you're talking about the November 9th Matteini ruling. I didn't realize Lumumba defended himself for two hours in front of Knox. Is there a description of that hearing somewhere?

I don't see how she could have known who killed Meredith. But I didn't realize Patrick pleaded innocence before her eyes. I would like to know if that hearing provided a way for her to clarify that she had NOT been at the cottage and had NOT seen Patrick at the cottage.
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WH,

there was other evidence introduced (besides Amanda's statement) to indicate Patrick might have been at the cottage that night. How could Amanda stand up and say she didn't see Patrick at the cottage if she didn't know if he was or wasn't? She could have started out by saying, I wasn't at the cottage...

Then what? What specifically could she say after that to prove he wasn't there?

Dave
 
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WH,

there was other evidence introduced (besides Amanda's statement) to indicate Patrick might have been at the cottage that night. How could Amanda stand up and say she didn't see Patrick at the cottage if she didn't know if he was or wasn't? She could have started out by saying, I wasn't at the cottage...

Then what? What specifically could she say after that to prove he wasn't there?

Dave
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Also, I think the prosecution introduced at least one witness that said they saw Patrick and Amanda together near the cottage that night,
 
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Let me ask you and everyone else here. How many cops signed her statements as witnesses? I think it was at least eight. Why so many witnesses if they weren't that many people there interrogating her?


The 1:45AM minutes is signed by 5 people (all listed in the preamble):

Amanda
Anna Donnino (translator)

Rita Ficarra
Ivano Raffo
Lorena Zugarini




The 5:45AM minutes is signed by 4 people (all listed in the preamble):


Amanda
Anna Donnino (translator)

Miginini
Rita Ficarra
 
I see Ganong has just upped the ante on the cost of the "PR Supertanker" to $2 million! If ever anyone needed a demonstration of just how detached from reality and common sense this woman is, this is a pretty good example. I strongly suspect that the entirety of PR/Communications activities carried out for Knox's family (the vast majority of which involve nothing more than handling media requests and scheduling interviews) barely ran into five figures.

Just consider things in the logical way: the Knox/Mellas family has a very limited pot of funds to work with - even if they are hoping for remuneration via interview payments with Knox post-acquittal. Now, the question then becomes this: where are these limited funds best employed, in order to maximise the chances of the optimum result? The optimum result here is twofold: to get Knox (and Sollecito) acquitted - by far the main objective, and to rehabilitate her in the eyes of the US public - a minor but still significant objective.

So with that in mind, how should Knox's family best spend their money? The only reasonable suggestion is that the vast majority of available funds should go towards providing direct legal assistance (and expert witness consultancy) to Knox and Sollecito for the first trial and then the appeal trial. And the remainder should go towards providing family support in Italy. It's obvious to see that this use of funds is the best way of maximising chances of success in the Italian courts, and therefore of achieving the primary objective of acquittal.

By contrast, throwing large sums of money at some sort of PR campaign - especially one aimed primarily at US audiences - would have been a relative waste of funds. After all, if the first objective (acquittal) is achieved, Knox will not only be able to get all the free favourable publicity she wants, but more than that, she'll actually be paid to get favourable publicity!

The only rational conclusion to draw is that Knox's family spent the overwhelming majority of funds (whether actual moneys or "IOUs" repayable on post-acquittal interviews) on legal assistance, expert witness assistance and family travel/subsistence in Perugia. I can be virtually certain that there has been no significant spend on a PR campaign. And I can be categorically certain that there has been no $1m, let alone $2m spend on such a PR campaign. Ridiculous.

Now, who was it who was talking about Goebbels earlier this week?

The rule of orchestration: Endlessly repeating the same messages in different variations and combinations.
(From Norman Davies' five rules of propaganda)

Skeptical Bystander, 9:52 pm: "Recently, someone in Seattle told me he thought that the Marriott campaign had cost the Knox/Mellas entourage over two million dollars since it was launched. Two million dollars buys a lot of erasers for snuffing out the memory of Meredith and a lot of pencils and crayons for improving the way AK is 'drawn.'"

SB, 10:34 pm: "Question: What requires an outlay of more than two million bucks and is non-existent? Answer: Nothing."

SB, 11:57 pm: "Two million bucks, give or take half a million, buys a lot of smoke and mirrors."

SB, 1:40 am: "Finally, as I noted, two million dollars (or whatever has been spent) buys a lot of media focus and spin."
 
Amanda was told by police that they had cast-iron evidence that Patrick was the murderer

Not even by her own version did they say such a thing.
That is just the exonerating myth.

They said that Raffaele no longer protected her.
Her alibi collapsed.
- Oh, yes, then it was Patrick. :)
 
Unless she knew.

She did know. She knew it was Rudy, Raf and herself. She also knew that accusing Patrick would have absolutely no negative consequences for anyone, because the police would never find out he was innocent.
 
Actually, a whistleblower did write a letter exposing the poor standards of Perugia Forensics.

http://i.imgur.com/WkouP.png
http://i.imgur.com/PBhlZ.png


The Perugian Crime: Full of Poison for the Police
Still news at the resumption of the final hearing session.


Anonymous letter sent to the court, to the experts, and to our newspaper.


PERUGIA September 22, 2011

The prosecution turns to the police in the Meredith case

The writing contains, in substance, a polemical and acidic reply to the arguments of the letter that the director of police, Director Piero Angeloni, sent to the president of the Appeal Court of Assizes, Claudio Pratillo Hellmann, in order to defend the good name and the professional status of the Italian forensic police. The aspects that concern the trial more than a little are those in which the anonymous person maintains that the suburban forensic police “are not supplied with equipment that is the norm” and that the refrigerator containers in use “are those for food.”

“Security and protection devices are not acquired for lack of funds. The coverall? It is used only when there is the video camera. Masks and head covers? They are worn only in the presence of experts and lawyers. The gloves? There is no need to waster them and the recommendations are to use them to the end and to not break them.”
Among the 17 points made there are those in which it is affirmed “that the refrigeration of samples is not assured, nor tracked,” that the “cleaning of instruments is superficial; for the DNA the norm is to perform it with alcohol and never to verify with control blanks”; that “when the biological result is not that hoped for, the amplification of the trace is forced for each despite rational scientific indications and one proceeds even when something is not found.

It will be that the result for this as well is always the presence of mixed unknowns?”, the public prosecutors’ consultant showed that during the testing operations, noted that the DNA amplifier was not placed under the fume hood contrary to what is done in the police laboratory. This is not the right place because the possibility is the highest that it can be contaminated if it is put under any fume hood”; that the “forensic police are not supplied with an adequate library and they are not furnished what needed to operate in the various sectors with the possibility to make inquiries on the international guidelines”; that biologic evidence samples are always completely destroyed, without guarantee of the repeatability of the test, the most times possible, as happens in all of the civilized countries in the world”.

A total “I accuse” – many points brought out and compared by the prosecutors- who, however, was entered as pure curiosity really because anonymous. Therefore not reliable, not serious, not scientific.
_____________________-

Draca,

The whistleblower's comments reminded me of an early photograph taken in Meredith's bedroom.

What's wrong with this PHOTOGRAPH?

///
 
It was vague, incoherent, and incongruous, She never says she saw Patrick kill Meredith (there may have been someone else in the other room that killed Meredith rather than Patrick, for all you can tell by her statement) nor does she say she saw Meredith die. You could even conclude from her statement that it was all a prank. Prove me wrong.

She does say in the 1:45AM session that "she remembers confusedly that Patrcik killed her".

It was a false confession lacking in any kind of detail. No time of death, she isn't able to describe the murder weapon, what Meredith or Patrick were wearing. It reads like a dream

Surely, if this confession were the only clue held against her, then similar doubts and arguments would be convincing.
But there are other clues for example those undermining their versions of how they had passed the night.
 
<snip>Surely, if this confession were the only clue held against her, then similar doubts and arguments would be convincing.
But there are other clues for example those undermining their versions of how they had passed the night.

And what might those clues be?
 
Thank you Kaosium,

I knew I could count on you for the true facts. You are a jewel.

Sorry Bolint for underestimating how many cops there were in the room with her.

By the way, where did you get the fact that she didn't say there were as many cops as K just stated. I've found K to be very reliable in stating the facts,

Do you still need it? :D
 
And what might those clues be?

The computer evidence in itself sinks Raffaele's alibi.

No amount of lamenting about "burnt hard disks" can demolish the simple fact, that the hard disks were eventually read (with the exception of Amanda's) and no activity has been found on them.
 
She did know. She knew it was Rudy, Raf and herself. She also knew that accusing Patrick would have absolutely no negative consequences for anyone, because the police would never find out he was innocent.

The Magnificient Seven:

Calvera: What I don't understand is why a man like you took the job in the first place, hmm? Why, huh?
Chris: I wonder myself.
Calvera: No, come on, come on, tell me why.
Vin: It's like a fellow I once knew in El Paso. One day, he just took all his clothes off and jumped in a mess of cactus. I asked him that same question, "Why?"
Calvera: And?
Vin: He said, "It seemed to be a good idea at the time."
 
The computer evidence in itself sinks Raffaele's alibi.

No amount of lamenting about "burnt hard disks" can demolish the simple fact, that the hard disks were eventually read (with the exception of Amanda's) and no activity has been found on them.

I'm pretty much completely new to following this case, not having read much since before the original trial, but I recall from my reading today that even the prosecution admits activity was on Raffaele's computer at 21.10, didn't they?

Wouldn't that, along with the evidence for an apparent time of death between 21.00-21.30 be a sufficient alibi in itself?

And the defence says there was other activity as well?
 
I'm pretty much completely new to following this case, not having read much since before the original trial, but I recall from my reading today that even the prosecution admits activity was on Raffaele's computer at 21.10, didn't they?

That was the prosecution'sr finding from the beginning. That was never disputed.

In the appeal, the RS defence presented a 21:26 opening of the Naruto cartoon that was not in the prosecution's finding.


Wouldn't that, along with the evidence for an apparent time of death between 21.00-21.30 be a sufficient alibi in itself?

The 21:26 would be enough for one of them (obviously Raffaele) with that time of death.

Amanda, however, has no alibi after about 20:45 (after the Popovic visit).


And the defence says there was other activity as well?

???
 
No,no,no...not evil Italian authorities...STUPID Italian authorities...there’s a difference. What is so hard to believe? This is the country that gave us the mafia...the police operate exactly the same...its clear....What you consider a CT is simply the way the family operates its business.

It is also the country putting scientists (seven of them i think) on trial for manslaughter for NOT predicting an earthquake that killed several people.

Whatever happened to the genes of the Romans who ruled most of the known world for nearly a 1,000 years?
 
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