• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.
LondonJohn said:
No, of course not. It's what's known as selective indignation. By contrast, there's been a full court press on Michelle Moore's two-word insult. There have even been alleged solicitors claiming that this will have harmed Knox's chances! (For the record, if Michelle Moore did indeed say that to Mignini in court, it was stupid and improper, and might have ramifications for Michelle Moore herself. But it will have no bearing whatsoever on the case against Knox/Sollecito.)

It will also be interesting to see whether the Kercher family make any comment about the nasty stunt pulled by their own lawyer in their own name. I suspect that there might be some selective indignation and selective criticism taking place there as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks, LJ. Sorry for the rants this morning (for me). Woke up on the wrong side of the park bench, I guess.
 
LondonJohn said:
BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno invokes results of independent experts & says that the presence of #rudyguede proves he was the only assassin in room. #amandaknox


So what were all the "well-informed" pro-guilt commentators saying about the defence teams "abandoning" the lone-assailant theory?

But apart from that, I'd say that Bongiorno isn't technically correct (if this has been properly reported). It's more appropriate to say that the evidence in Meredith's bedroom only proves the presence of one person - Guede - and that it's consistent with Guede being the lone killer. I don't think the evidence proves that Guede was the lone killer though.
Click to expand...

She's arguing that 'absence of evidence is evidence of absence', and in my opinion, she's right to argue this, as it goes towards showing that not only is the 'evidence' against them bogus (and hence they should be found not guilty because of reasonable doubt), but that the evidence they don't have is actually indicative of innocence. I think there's room in her summations for both a 'negative' phase of argument (proseuction haven't proved their case, reasonable doubt, etc) and a positive phase of argument.
MOO :)
 
katy_did said:
Yep, it was obviously just a shock tactic. From what I saw of the pro-guilt sites there was mostly just cheering on of Maresca, though perhaps I missed some objections, not sure. If anything is exploiting the victim, it's what Maresca did yesterday. I have to say that Moore's article on this is very good and very powerful.
Click to expand...

The graphic, obscene, desecrating photographs shown today had no evidentiary value. No legitimate purpose was served by the photographs. Nothing about the murder scene was in dispute in this session. Nothing about Meredith’s death, her condition at the time of death, or her body was in play. In short, there was no reason in the entire legal world to show detailed photographs of the violated body of his clients’ child and sister. No reason except money. The display was gratuitous, designed to horrify and shock a jury. And it horrified. And it shocked. But maybe only the conscience of decent people. Several people left the courtroom, and many were left traumatized.
Click to expand...

All I can say is in your sig, all truth with malice in it is personified in Maresca.
 
bri1 said:
She's arguing that 'absence of evidence is evidence of absence', and in my opinion, she's right to argue this, as it goes towards showing that not only is the 'evidence' against them bogus (and hence they should be found not guilty because of reasonable doubt), but that the evidence they don't have is actually indicative of innocence. I think there's room in her summations for both a 'negative' phase of argument (proseuction haven't proved their case, reasonable doubt, etc) and a positive phase of argument.
MOO :)
Click to expand...


I almost agree! But the point I'm trying to make is that I think it's overreaching to state that absence of evidence is proof of innocence. I think the proper argument to be made here is that absence of evidence of Knox/Sollecito in the murder room is highly indicative of their non-participation in the murder. My point is that I don't think one can say it's any sort of proof of non-participation.
 
courtneycwalsh courtneycwalsh
Before Knox hearing 2day PM Mignini says he did not approve of civil lawyers calling Amanda "a witch". Nor of pics of Kercher yesterday.

Mio dio, what a liar. He started with the whole satanism / cult baloney. He really is the most shameless, disingenuous, horrible man. Him and Maresca should get married.
 
LondonJohn said:
I almost agree! But the point I'm trying to make is that I think it's overreaching to state that absence of evidence is proof of innocence. I think the proper argument to be made here is that absence of evidence of Knox/Sollecito in the murder room is highly indicative of their non-participation in the murder. My point is that I don't think one can say it's any sort of proof of non-participation.
Click to expand...

I getcha :)
And also agree.
 
bri1 said:
courtneycwalsh courtneycwalsh
Before Knox hearing 2day PM Mignini says he did not approve of civil lawyers calling Amanda "a witch". Nor of pics of Kercher yesterday.

Mio dio, what a liar. He started with the whole satanism / cult baloney. He really is the most shameless, disingenuous, horrible man. Him and Maresca should get married.
Click to expand...

LOL. I don't think I would have called him (just) evil.
 
katy_did said:
Unfortunately I don't think judicial panels are immune to these kinds of shock tactics/character assassination, even with two professional judges involved (after all, Pacelli's speech was no different really to the one he gave in the first trial, where the jury convicted). The judges are all human, after all. However, I do think that in this case, both the professional judges have shown they're unlikely to be swayed by this sort of blatant manipulation.

I agree that Maresca's showing of the pictures was partly aimed at the press (as Frank says in his latest post, it's significant that Maresca's 'apology' was about 'forgetting' to ask for the press to be sent out - the press, not the audience). But I also think it was just a final, desperate attempt to get a conviction, using whatever shameful tactics he could think of.
Click to expand...



I wonder how showing the pictures was received by the Kercher family?
I can't image they were happy about that.
 
RoseMontague said:
Let me ask this to anyone that reads here and you can answer wherever. Is there anyone that thinks these pictures will not eventually be plastered all over the web? Will it have been worth it?
Click to expand...

Of course it will make the internet.

I think they will make the internet, but only the few who are really watching this case would be interested from a investigative standpoint, those who've already seen this type of picture.

There might be some others who are attracted or excited by this type of gore sites. There are websites of it, so they might stumble across it. Crime scene photos/ horror sites.

For the family, I am sickened for them that Maresca did such a foul and self indulging play. He stooped to an all time low ...
 
More updates

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno says Guede had met #amandaknox but not #sollecito.
19 minutes ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno tells jury that prosecution failed in demonstrating a connection between #amandaknox #sollecito and #rudyguede.
20 minutes ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno trying to justify calling Alessi the babykiller to the stand, says felt judicial obligation after he contacted her. #amandaknox
23 minutes ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Dating the time of death has been difficult because of numerous errors by police, so Bongiorno says the phone records are key. #amandaknox
29 minutes ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno talking about the "black box" in this case, how #meredithkercher phone records do date the time of death. #amandaknox
31 minutes ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
@
@morsels I realize that, but court reporting is mind-numbing.
31 minutes ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Blood in basement apartment was frm a wounded cat, not connected to murder. this has always been a "pet" argument for Bongiorno. #amandaknox
42 minutes ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
"Sangue di gatto" makes a return from the first trial. The cat did it? #amandaknox
44 minutes ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno implies the investigation was guided by suspicion of suspects, not by analysis of evidence. #amandaknox
46 minutes ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno finished with the DNA part of her closing arguments. Moves 2 murder dynamics & how knife is not murder weapon. #amandaknox
48 minutes ago
»

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
by BLNadeau
Bongiorno showing crime scene video of forensic techs and pointing out sloppy handling. #amandaknox
56 minutes ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno back 2 bra clasp. Obvious key to #sollecito 's freedom and she has intertwined it into every aspect of closing argum. #amandaknox
1 hour ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno: If #amandaknox or #sollecito were in the room there would be a trace. They weren't there.
1 hour ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno: Why isn't there a footprint of #amandaknox and #sollecito in the murder room?
1 hour ago
Click to expand...
 
Bongiorno talking about the "black box" in this case, how #meredithkercher phone records do date the time of death. #amandaknox

Yes, this is good, I hope she clearly makes a point of the cell logs versus Mignini's fictional 11:30pm ToD... and also all the other earlier ToD supporting evidence.

Tow Truck driver, Alessandra, Rudys admission, stomach contents, cell logs,
 
I dont get the cat blood topic?
Can anyone explain?

This seems a very odd ending to her closing? cat blood downstairs? what?
 
JREF2010 said:
I dont get the cat blood topic?
Can anyone explain?

This seems a very odd ending to her closing? cat blood downstairs? what?
Click to expand...


I'm still trying to get my head around the "cat operating the mobile phone" thing. I can't recall the defence teams ever making any sort of claim along those lines, and they wouldn't have done so during prosecution/civil closing arguments.
 
katy_did said:
Yes, I wonder if they'd been told what he was going to do beforehand...
Click to expand...


I can't help but think that most of the lawyers in this trial (and the Massei trial previously) have allowed the massive media attention to influence their performances. I strongly suspect that with the exception of Bongiorno, all the other lawyers on all sides of the case have never before been involved in a case with such intense (and international) media scrutiny and presence. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if this has made them speak and act in ways that they would never have done in their usual courtroom work.

I think there's plenty of evidence that certain lawyers have got totally swept up by the occasion, and have started grandstanding and employing excess melodrama. Pacelli appears to be the worst culprit, but Mignini, Comodi and Maresca have all - in my opinion - shown similar tendencies. I wonder how many of them think that they could make a name for themselves through their work in this case.
 
My comments here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/newsdebate/f/t-10237146/p-1/index.html
(under philosopher29)

Are currently being tweeted by someone who's been following the case on Twitter, Noel Dalberth.
I wonder if anyone knows if she posts here/IIP?

ndalberth noel dalberth
The whole PR supertanker is a fantasy that betrays a complete ignorance of the way media /PR actually works in the real world #AmandaKnox
14 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
noel dalberth
ndalberth noel dalberth
b) enlist the support of a small PR firm to help schedule media interviews. PR companies can't buy positive press. #AmandaKnox
14 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
noel dalberth
ndalberth noel dalberth
Interesting comment on Daily Mail trashy story site:Amanda's supporters decide to (a) speak to media & correct portrayal of her #AmandaKnox
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom