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UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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Garrison said:
I'm afraid we've had that; it consists of Ufology's 40 year old recollection that he has 'refined' and which cannot, according to his unimpeachable memory, have been anything so mundane as a firefly.
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Which does not actually meet any real definition of "evidence" that science or discussion can use.
 
Garrison said:
I'm afraid we've had that; it consists of Ufology's 40 year old recollection that he has 'refined' and which cannot, according to his unimpeachable memory, have been anything so mundane as a firefly.
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And which, we must remember, could just as easily have been some prankster god putting a vision in his head so eventually he would go around telling people he saw aliens. After all, there is nothing, absolutely nothing about the story (stories actually, being as how they've been tweaked and changed along the way) that makes aliens a better explanation than gods. It could all be part of a big ol' cosmic practical joke, the unwitting victim of which just happened to be ufology.
 
Garrison said:
Ah it does if you accept Ufology's special definition of such terms as 'UFO', so yes in real terms its worthless.
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Yes. But my definition of what "Jreff", "forum" and "reply" means he owes me several billion pounds sterling for quoting me in some of his responses. We can redefine what ever we want now right?
 
ufology said:
ehcks:

Things don't have to be proven to define their intended meaning. For example the word "tomorrow" can never be proven to exist, yet we use it without reservation because we assume it will happen. We don't define it as, "The day we believe will happen after today but hasn't been proven will happen".
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Epic fail. The word 'tomorrow' denotes an abstract concept. As does 'yesterday', 'happiness', 'bravery', 'fun'. Get the idea? Abstract nouns. Taking one word ('UFO') and pretending it means something else entirely ('alien spaceship') has nothing to do with abstract nouns.

ufology said:
Grant it, it doesn't hurt to add some context when needed, but such context can always be added at the time the word is used. Also note that the word "alien" does not necessitate an extraterrestrial craft, just one that is alien to human civilization.
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So you keep saying. If not extraterrestrial ('outside of earth') then whence from, folo? Inside earth? Under the sea?
 
I guess we're all just sitting here waiting for ufology's memory to "correct itself," ie. for him to do a few quick calculations in Google Earth to figure out exactly how high ⅔ of the mountain is, and Photoshop himself up some new "evidence."
 
ufology said:
carlitos:

Now in addition to your projection reactions you add trivial criticisms of my typos ... nobody is buying into your diversion. You were the one who asked for evidence, so define "evidence" for us and provide your references. Since you have a built in spell checker and are so intellectually elite, it should be really easy for you. So let's have it.
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ufology said:
Garrison:

I have no idea what you are talking about. Please provide an in context example so that we can make a proper comparison.
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Us??? We???

I have some tragic news for you, Mr Fology.
 
Tomtomkent said:
I'm just killing time until the next dodge.
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Tomtomkent:

In order to establish parameters, please choose an independent definition for the word "evidence" and include your references. Then we can discuss the evidence ( if any ).
 
ufology said:
Tomtomkent:

In order to establish parameters, please choose an independent definition for the word "evidence" and include your references. Then we can discuss the evidence ( if any ).
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Stop it stop it stop it.

You have nothing beyond an ill-remembered anecdote and feverish hearsay from other ET enthusiasts. If you had something more you wouldn't be posting here, pimping your website, you'd be banking real money.
 
Resume said:
Stop it stop it stop it.

You have nothing beyond an ill-remembered anecdote and feverish hearsay from other ET enthusiasts. If you had something more you wouldn't be posting here, pimping your website, you'd be banking real money.
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'The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths.' - Aleksandr Pushkin

;)
 
Cuddles said:
Interestingly, this has been suggested as a reason why some woos come here in the first place. We point out all the obvious flaws and inconsistencies, and they try to patch over them. Obviously no-one here is going to be fooled, since we've already seen all the wildly varying and inconsistent claims. But when they now take these stories somewhere else, all the people there see is the new, much more consistent story.

If this were true in ufology's case I might have expected him to do it sooner than now, given how long he's been playing at running a UFO club. But on the other hand, he's not exactly been honest about his intentions so far. Maybe he's not really trying to drum up visitors to his site, but just trying to iron out his story so it sounds more credible when he goes to present it somewhere else. After all, he does an awful lot of talking about this single unrecorded, unverifiable person experience for someone who's supposed to be presenting us with the best research and evidence that shows UFOs are aliens.
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Also he can claim to have explained it to those nasty JREF skeptics, cherry pick a few quotes to prove his point, confident that no one will read thru the 13000 posts in this thread.
 
Marduk said:
'The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths.' - Aleksandr Pushkin
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Marduk:

Good quote ... and very interesting how it applies to the skeptics here. I personally know the truth from my own experience, but I don't claim to know all the details or have proof to back it up. My interest is in establishing the truth in whatever way is possible. Since everyone else here is so fond of promoting my website, I'll point out why USI was established:
"USI was created in 1989 by J. Randall Murphy in Calgary Canada for the purpose of providing easy access to UFO related information, and over the long term, to help establish the truth regarding alien visitation to planet Earth."
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As you can see, if what I'm hoping to do is to establish the truth, it's obviously something that I believe still needs to be done beyond what I personally believe. Perhaps the skeptics here might acknowledge that sometime.
 
ufology said:
As you can see, if what I'm hoping to do is to establish the truth, it's obviously something that I believe still needs to be done beyond what I personally believe. Perhaps the skeptics here might acknowledge that sometime.
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And the truth is you have no material evidence to advance the notion that an alien intelligence has visited this planet. You have exactly nothing, an empty cup. Perhaps you might acknowledge that sometime.
 
ufology said:
As you can see, if what I'm hoping to do is to establish the truth, it's obviously something that I believe still needs to be done beyond what I personally believe. Perhaps the skeptics here might acknowledge that sometime.
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Keeping in mind that ufology, consistent with his modus operandi, has redefined the word "truth". Let's see, how did he put it?...

ufology said:
Truth and reality are two seaparate issues. Therefore truth itself doesn't correspond to objective reality or any other reality.
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Truth in ufology's world is something quite detached from reality. Establishing the truth obviously does not mean the same thing to "ufologists" as it does to critically thinking people. The skeptics' position, quite contrary to ufology's, does not reject reality in order to maintain a belief in aliens.

So yeah, sure ufology, we'll acknowledge that you're hoping to establish the truth, your very own special pleading, argument from ignorance truth, a truth which by your own definition doesn't correspond with reality of any sort.
 
Resume said:
And the truth is you have no material evidence to advance the notion that an alien intelligence has visited this planet. You have exactly nothing, an empty cup. Perhaps you might acknowledge that sometime.
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Resume:

I have already acknowledged several times that I don't have scientific proof, material or otherwise to present as evidence. That doesn't mean alien craft haven't visited Earth or aren't still here. It just means that the evidence presented so far isn't good enough for you to accept. That's fine, I don't expect you or anyone else to blindly believe anything.
 
GeeMack said:
Truth in ufology's world is something quite detached from reality. Establishing the truth obviously does not mean the same thing to "ufologists" as it does to critically thinking people. The skeptics' position, quite contrary to ufology's, does not reject reality in order to maintain a belief in aliens.

So yeah, sure ufology, we'll acknowledge that you're hoping to establish the truth, your very own special pleading, argument from ignorance truth, a truth which by your own definition doesn't correspond with reality of any sort.
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GeeMack:

You've taken a partial quote and posted it out of context to misrepresent my position. For the benefit of the readers, I was asked to describe a situation where truth doesn't correspond to objective reality, and I illustrated how it can occur. The specific question was:

Q. Tell us about a situation where truth doesn't correspond to objective reality.

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My answer was as follows:

A. Truth and reality are two seaparate issues. Therefore truth itself doesn't correspond to objective reality or any other reality.

Truth is about a said premise. For example, it is true that in Canada, 100 cents equals 1 dollar.

So I'm presuming that what you really mean to ask is what situation could there be for a premise to be true outside the context of objective reality. In this case the answer would be a subjective situation, as described in my initial definition. To provide another example, if you have any imagination, you could close your eyes and see a small pink elephant inside a brown room with hardwood floors. And when you see that small pink elephant in that brown room with hardwood floors, that small pink elephant is truly there in the imaginary room. After all, if it weren't there in the imaginary room we would have to say that it isn't true that it is there in the imaginary room.

There are both objective and subjective truths.
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So as the readers can now see, you either don't comprehend the concept that truth corresponds to a given premise and that reality is a separate issue that provides context, making it either objective or subjective; or you do comprehend what was illustrated and have intentionally misrepresented my position. Please tell us all which one you prefer us to think?
 
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ufology said:
Grant it, it doesn't hurt to add some context when needed, but such context can always be added at the time the word is used.
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It's 'granted', not 'grant it'.


ufology said:
Also note that the word "alien" does not necessitate an extraterrestrial craft, just one that is alien to human civilization.
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Belonging to one of the other civilisations that we share the planet with, eh?

Does this have anything to do with the Space Fishes? I was lookinig forward to hearing more about those.
 
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