Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Kaosium]

Can't wait for some more detailed summary of what went today. From the twits it looks prosecution had nothing about motive and no reconstruction of events, nothing about ToD. Any motive or ToD they give can be shot down immediately by the defence, so they will probably try to play it the last possible moment, giving no chance for a reply.

The "surprise":
After Maresca declared on TV that Rudy tells the truth, I thought for a moment that this is the surprise we'll get - that the Kerchers and the prosecution now believe Guede really had a date with Meredith and tried to rescue her. Apparently they're not far from it. Guede is now the "poor black boy", sympathetic, nice, almost innocent, who shouldn't take all the blame.

Other events revealed today what is this case really about. That chief prosecution guy who came to express his "support" for Mignini ( and in reality shake his finger at Hellmann and Zanetti), and the perugian "medalists" who decided it's good time to make a demonstration of power in front of international media and rough up that pesky Sfarzo again. It's all about defending the status quo of the rotten local clique - corrupt prosecutors, corrupt and incompetent cops enacting their small town blue code of silence.

A thought about prosecution's tactic:
They very well realise that Hellmann and Zanetti are "against them". The only points to score are with the lay "judges". Mignini is well aware that these people won't bother with reading the "10 000 pages", they're more likely educating themselves about the case from "Porta a porta" and colourful weeklies. That's why Mignini was rambling about the media so much today, that's why the appeals to "think like the Kerchers", that's why we've got the nazis, vibrators, condoms, sexy panties and a kissing couple pics. This is the last chance, what the prosecution aims for, to get a majority from the jury (and a votum separatum of Hellmann). It would probably be an astronomically rare outcome, almost unheard of, thus the pessimism among the prosecution camp.

So...what was the 'big surprise' the prosecution offered us? The Chief Prosecutor finally spoke? He supports the conviction...as long as it takes him to trot Mignini out there to makes the case? From a limited intake of the days news, it sounds like the prosecution didn't bother much with an explanation of guilt, merely tried to poke holes in the innocence narrative.

This is the summation of their evidence and arguments, right? If I've been reading LJs posts right, this is their big opportunity and they're wasting it on damage control. A positive sign for Raffaele and Amanda.

 

[snook1]

So, after today...where is the case? Who killed Meredith? What did they use to kill her? Where did this take place? When did they do it and when was the TOD ? What is the motivation? Where is the DNA? Where are the fingerprints?

If today was the prosecutions best shot (and lets face it there can be no real surprises anymore) then I place my percentage of a finding of not guilty at 99%.

This case is over. Or it will be in a few short days. Only then can the healing begin
.

I agree. This is what the defense will focus on. They will ask the exact same questions. The prosecution will have no answers whatsoever. I'm waiting for Bongiorno especially. Hopefully she will be at her best.

 

[Dougm]

Interesting choice by police to decide that today is the day we must collect the fine from Frank. I wonder if Mignini ordered that?

Its clear now who the Nazi actually is...the one who can commit the crime and while doing it he points his finger at the accused and eats cake and sips tea. Mignini will rot in hell for his behavior.

So, after today...where is the case? Who killed Meredith? What did they use to kill her? Where did this take place? When did they do it and when was the TOD ? What is the motivation? Where is the DNA? Where are the fingerprints?

I hope its just a rumor about the condoms and pink rabbit. That in itself is so disrespectful and irrelevant to the court that I cant imagine any judge putting up with it.

If today was the prosecutions best shot (and lets face it there can be no real surprises anymore) then I place my percentage of a finding of not guilty at 99%.

This clown Mignini acted exactly as I expected today...nothing! Just the same ole dog and pony show but this time the dog only has two legs and the pony is already glue. No substance...only words...don’t listen to the press...last time listen to the press. This man has talked like a man with a paper ******* since the beginning. That it is finally becoming clear to everyone now is what happens when people like this aren’t smart enough to know when to shut up.

This case is over. Or it will be in a few short days. Only then can the healing begin
.

I hope you are right. I just can't get over the memories of reading up on the first trial (after it was over), and being shocked that they came to the verdict they came to. I'll predict an aquittal the minute it happens. The court had most of this same evidence before, with similar arguments, and voted to convict. I'm hopeful, and think that the case is moving the right way, but not convinced that there is not room for another nonsensical verdict.

As they say, "Fool me once, shame on you ..."

 

[Magister]

Logic has a hard time overcoming emotion in Italy.

From reading the available court transcripts it is painfully clear that examination and cross examination becomes a general talking shop with enumerable interruptions and the judge having difficulty maintaining order.

Where are the short,sharp, penetrating questions?
No wonder it can be difficult for the lay judges.

Next week everything rests with the inexperienced defence counsel to
forcibly get their case across.
They may be being assisted by Ted Simon and others, but once the court is in session they are on their own and need to be able to think on their feet.
A quality previously lacking.

If Hellmann had recalled Quintavalle, Nara Capezalli and ordered the pillow stain to be examined, the bathmat etc., the defence would have had yet more ammunition.
If the verdict is not guilty it would then be even more difficult for some to argue that Amanda and Raffaele had been acquitted on a technicality.

 

[JREF2010]

Can't wait for some more detailed summary of what went today. From the twits it looks prosecution had nothing about motive and no reconstruction of events, nothing about ToD. Any motive or ToD they give can be shot down immediately by the defence, so they will probably try to play it the last possible moment, giving no chance for a reply.

The "surprise":
After Maresca declared on TV that Rudy tells the truth, I thought for a moment that this is the surprise we'll get - that the Kerchers and the prosecution now believe Guede really had a date with Meredith and tried to rescue her. Apparently they're not far from it. Guede is now the "poor black boy", sympathetic, nice, almost innocent, who shouldn't take all the blame.

Other events revealed today what is this case really about. That chief prosecution guy who came to express his "support" for Mignini ( and in reality shake his finger at Hellmann and Zanetti), and the perugian "medalists" who decided it's good time to make a demonstration of power in front of international media and rough up that pesky Sfarzo again. It's all about defending the status quo of the rotten local clique - corrupt prosecutors, corrupt and incompetent cops enacting their small town blue code of silence.

A thought about prosecution's tactic:
They very well realise that Hellmann and Zanetti are "against them". The only points to score are with the lay "judges". Mignini is well aware that these people won't bother with reading the "10 000 pages", they're more likely educating themselves about the case from "Porta a porta" and colourful weeklies. That's why Mignini was rambling about the media so much today, that's why the appeals to "think like the Kerchers", that's why we've got the nazis, vibrators, condoms, sexy panties and a kissing couple pics. This is the last chance, what the prosecution aims for, to get a majority from the jury (and a votum separatum of Hellmann). It would probably be an astronomically rare outcome, almost unheard of, thus the pessimism among the prosecution camp.

I'll be third in-line to say great post, thought provoking...

That would be a desperate move, to place it as "Rudy versus Amanda&Raffaele."

 

[Fine]

If I were the ILE, No. Also, if you tell anyone, I will charge you with calunnia.That's the way it works here!

_____________________

Daydreamer,

Not just garden-variety calunnia in Frank's case. He was charged with aggravated calunnia.

Anybody know why???

///

 

[JREF2010]

So...what was the 'big surprise' the prosecution offered us? The Chief Prosecutor finally spoke? He supports the conviction...as long as it takes him to trot Mignini out there to makes the case? From a limited intake of the days news, it sounds like the prosecution didn't bother much with an explanation of guilt, merely tried to poke holes in the innocence narrative.

This is the summation of their evidence and arguments, right? If I've been reading LJs posts right, this is their big opportunity and they're wasting it on damage control. A positive sign for Raffaele and Amanda.

Is Saturday all day, to be Commodi?

 

[Grinder]

A thought about prosecution's tactic:
They very well realise that Hellmann and Zanetti are "against them". The only points to score are with the lay "judges". Mignini is well aware that these people won't bother with reading the "10 000 pages", they're more likely educating themselves about the case from "Porta a porta" and colourful weeklies. That's why Mignini was rambling about the media so much today, that's why the appeals to "think like the Kerchers", that's why we've got the nazis, vibrators, condoms, sexy panties and a kissing couple pics. This is the last chance, what the prosecution aims for, to get a majority from the jury (and a votum separatum of Hellmann). It would probably be an astronomically rare outcome, almost unheard of, thus the pessimism among the prosecution camp.

It's as if Mignini is impersonating a tabloid magazine. Now that the actual tabloids aren't Foxy Knoxy 24/7 with vibrator and party girl stories he has to present this garbage in court. Obviously he believes that all the media in the first trial was important because the judges aren't even asked not to pay attention to it.

 

[smkovalinksy]

It's as if Mignini is impersonating a tabloid magazine. Now that the actual tabloids aren't Foxy Knoxy 24/7 with vibrator and party girl stories he has to present this garbage in court. Obviously he believes that all the media in the first trial was important because the judges aren't even asked not to pay attention to it.

Exactly right. But the scary thing is, these tactics worked in 2009, and could work again. Let us hope the jurists are deeper people. Very worrisome.

 

[JREF2010]

Candace_Dempsey Candace Dempsey
Pros Mignini rails against media circus he created and feeds. Funny. #AmandaKnox

LOL- loving Candace's tweets today.

after reading much of the news articles, I agree with Dempsey.

the circus he created! the leaks to the media and the sex list etc.. like Madison Paxton said, "what does someones sex have to do with a murder trial?" of that nature...

all one has to do is read the articles of Nov 2 to the Dec 18th and see the prosecutions media slander.

amazing Mignini spent his big "spotlight time" on such a weak subject.

 

[charlatan]

I hope you are right. I just can't get over the memories of reading up on the first trial (after it was over), and being shocked that they came to the verdict they came to. I'll predict an aquittal the minute it happens. The court had most of this same evidence before, with similar arguments, and voted to convict. I'm hopeful, and think that the case is moving the right way, but not convinced that there is not room for another nonsensical verdict.

As they say, "Fool me once, shame on you ..."

Mignini had an opportunity to dial it back or let someone else take the lead on closing arguments. Instead he raved like a madman about media conspiracies, vibrators and Joseph Goebbels. Even if this doesn't alarm the jury, it certainly registers with Hellmann, the Italian judiciary and observers around the world. People were willing to overlook Mignini's dementia when most believed the prosecution still had a credible case on the merits, but now the circus in Perugia has become an embarrassment.

The circling of the wagons and flat denial of exculpatory evidence uncovered during the appeal does not bode well for the prosecution.

 

[Keeper]

Can someone explain the degree to which a Judge can direct the Jury in Italian courts?

 

[Scorpion NITE]

Nothing specific about the appeal, basically along the lines of Stephanie's letter.

Although I appreciate that today has been all about the prosecution 'case' and Mignini's farce, I have to admit that I was surprised that no-one seemed to notice my post a few pages ago, in response to RoseMontague asking what the Kerchers said....here it is again, with the link from the newspaper at the bottom of my post.

...I believe John Kercher is wedded to the prosecution 'case' much more BUT, having read Arline in today's Daily Mail, she actually seems to be pointing to Amanda - DISAPPOINTED at Arline but we did fear the prosecution and/or Maresca using tricks like this on the eve of closing arguments....BOLDING and underlining in her quote is mine.



''...Whoever killed Meredith knew her well, she had her trust but that was betrayed. That’s what I can’t understand. My daughter was killed in her home. Not in a park or on the road, her body wasn’t found dumped somewhere.''

''...In these four years we have never stopped thinking about her. It’s as if she was here with me still. I’m not bothered about the names of who was convicted - Rudy, Amanda, Raffaele. What counts for me is that my daughter was murdered by someone who in the first trial was found guilty and sentenced. There was a lot of evidence in that trial, but now I’m asking myself where has that all gone?''

''They are focusing on just two elements, but what about the other stuff? What has changed from the first trial? I accepted the verdict of the first trial and I will accept the verdict of the appeal but what I want is justice for my daughter.''

Link below:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...h-Kerchers-family-speaks-appeal-restarts.html

 

[Grinder]

They arrest Frank in court after shutting down his blog and then compare Amanda to Goebbels?

As Vonnegut said "and the mind reels"

 

[Grinder]

Why if one owned a web page that had a huge following, would one post to one's blog, posts that are about what one's highly popular web site focuses on?

Is it just a coincidence that that very site took a symbol of anti-nazism just before Mignini brought out the "big lie" and Goebbels (actually that was Hitler's line about the English and the Jews) or was there a heads-up? Just sayin...

 

[RoseMontague]

I believe the judge and jury will see Mignini as the lying little frog turd that he is. Today showed just how desperate the prosecution is and how they must know that the case is not going their way.

 

[JREF2010]

I believe the judge and jury will see Mignini as the lying little frog turd that he is. Today showed just how desperate the prosecution is and how they must know that the case is not going their way.

If I was Peggy DingDong I would ban you for saying that.

 

[RoseMontague]

The internet is a big place and she controls a tiny speck of it. She can't stop people from giving an opinion.

Mignoni bringing out the condoms and vibrator, the naxi and racism BS, just proves he is trying to demonize the Knox girl. Raffaele is pretty much forgotten, maybe they should let him go home now.

 

[Magister]

Contrary to expectations Costagliola threw his full force behind Mignini today.


Does anyone here know anything about the co-judge Massimo Zanetti?

 

[Fine]

"Chris Mellas, and Knox’s father, Curt, told reporters outside the court that she was down. 'Listening to people telling horrible lies is difficult.' " (HERE)

"Horrible lies"? Why don't the cops just round up and throw the whole damn Knox/Mellas clan in jail now, charged with serial calunnia. How much more disrespect is Mignini supposed to tolerate!!!

///