Merged Libyan civil war ending - politics post-Gaddafi

[trustbutverify]

irrelevant.

Any questions folks?

 

[egslim]

Do you acknowledge the Libyans, the Arab League and the United Nations requested support for rebels being massacred?

Sounds impressive, doesn't it? Until you look at the details.
- the Libyans: Actually only the (mostly self-appointed) representatives from a number of internal factions with unknown popular support requested help.
- the Arab League: Of the 22 full members, 11 were present at the voting. Only 9 actually supported the request. Among them:
Saudi Arabia, which made a deal with the US: Let us crush the rebellian in Bahrein, then we let you get rid of Gadaffi.
The other members of the Gulf Cooperation Council, where Saudi Arabia is top dog and which is closely allied to the US: Bahrein, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman and the UAR.
- the United Nations, meaning only the Security Council, meaning only its permanent members, meaning only three countries - while facing minor opposition from the other two.

It makes an interesting comparisson with Iraq 2003:
- The Obama administration managed to gain Arab League and United Nations support from backroom machinations, while publically taking a backseat to France.
- Evidence for prospective massacres was of similar quality as that for WMDs in Iraq, but unlike the latter it can never be proven wrong to make the administration look stupid.

So credit to Obama for effective politics, but only a fool would consider it evidence for widespread international support to intervene.

 

[Virus]

I didn't say there was widespread international support. I said there were requests from the Libyans, the Arab League and the UN. All of those things are true. Which means NATO does have business being there.

 

[Virus]

irrelevant.

Oh yes I forget. When asked to provide evidence for something you said you response was "Why should I do that?"

 

[bikerdruid]

Oh yes I forget. When asked to provide evidence for something you said you response was "Why should I do that?"

it is just this simple.
i did not approve of the libyan nato actions. it involved canadian troops. i am a canadian.
it is a matter of opinion. it is irrelevant to me who requested it. nato had no business going into a non-nato country to get involved in domestic affairs.
i don't give a rat's ass if you agree with me or not.

 

[IDB87]

it is just this simple.
i did not approve of the libyan nato actions. it involved canadian troops. i am a canadian.
it is a matter of opinion. it is irrelevant to me who requested it. nato had no business going into a non-nato country to get involved in domestic affairs.
i don't give a rat's ass if you agree with me or not.

How do you feel about UN Resolution 1973?

I ask because you come off as a supporter of international law. If the U.N. mandates military intervention, who exactly should be responsible for upholding that bit of the resolution?

 

[bikerdruid]

How do you feel about UN Resolution 1973?

I ask because you come off as a supporter of international law. If the U.N. mandates military intervention, who exactly should be responsible for upholding that bit of the resolution?

gee...maybe u.n. troops?
this is not in nato's role.

 

[IDB87]

gee...maybe u.n. troops?
this is not in nato's role.

Does the U.N. have an air force?

NATO has enforced the no-fly zone. Other non-NATO air forces have been targeting ground assets.

You keep saying 'troops'. Why are you using that word?

I just think you're confused.

Why do you have such a bug up your butt about NATO anyway? Does the U.N. have any right to be there? What is the difference?

 

[bikerdruid]

Does the U.N. have an air force?

NATO has enforced the no-fly zone. Other non-NATO air forces have been targeting ground assets.

You keep saying 'troops'. Why are you using that word?

I just think you're confused.

Why do you have such a bug up your butt about NATO anyway? Does the U.N. have any right to be there? What is the difference?

u.n troops have been involved in several world conflicts.
korea and cyprus are two examples.
maybe you need to study some modern history.....

 

[IDB87]

u.n troops have been involved in several world conflicts.
korea and cyprus are two examples.
maybe you need to study some modern history.....

But the resolution specifically called for NO troops on the ground and an enforcement of a no-fly zone. How can the U.N. do that if it doesn't have an air force?

Also:

Most of these operations are established and implemented by the United Nations itself, with troops serving under UN operational control. In these cases, peacekeepers remain members of their respective armed forces, and do not constitute an independent "UN army", as the UN does not have such a force. In cases where direct UN involvement is not considered appropriate or feasible, the Council authorizes regional organizations such as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), the Economic Community of West African States, or coalitions of willing countries to undertake peacekeeping or peace-enforcement tasks.

Thought that was interesting.

 

[trustbutverify]

u.n troops have been involved in several world conflicts.
korea and cyprus are two examples.
maybe you need to study some modern history.....

 

[IDB87]

Pretty much the only thing you can do, really. It's either that or ignore, but I wouldn't want to miss the next gem.

 

[Stout]

But the resolution specifically called for NO troops on the ground and an enforcement of a no-fly zone. How can the U.N. do that if it doesn't have an air force?

Look !!! troops

Gaddafi forces capture 17 “mercenaries,” including French and British

The bourgeoisie pigdog capitalist scum who are waging a war of aggression in order to effect regime change and plunder the oil from the Libyan people has had their invasion force captured.

 

[IDB87]

Look !!! troops

Gaddafi forces capture 17 “mercenaries,” including French and British

The bourgeoisie pigdog capitalist scum who are waging a war of aggression in order to effect regime change and plunder the oil from the Libyan people has had their invasion force captured.

Were it not for that wink..

 

[Stout]

Were it not for that wink..

Yea, I've been spending too much time reading the left lately, maybe I should do something more productive, like download WinMX and get me some more Altan tracks.

It's hard to tell what the Libyan people want the propaganda is thick on this one but I'm going with the out with the desert clown side on this one. Locally I did see days worth of protests ( or actions ) from Libyan expats asking NATO to get involved and help oust Gaddafi.

One thing that was also interesting, watching the left switch sides. At first they were all rah rah go rebels, Arab spring and all that but as soon as the west, NATO got involved they instantly switched sides. As far as I can tell, the left is just using "the people" as pawns in their "we hate the west" ideology.

 

[trustbutverify]

Yea, I've been spending too much time reading the left lately, maybe I should do something more productive, like download WinMX and get me some more Altan tracks.

It's hard to tell what the Libyan people want the propaganda is thick on this one but I'm going with the out with the desert clown side on this one. Locally I did see days worth of protests ( or actions ) from Libyan expats asking NATO to get involved and help oust Gaddafi.

One thing that was also interesting, watching the left switch sides. At first they were all rah rah go rebels, Arab spring and all that but as soon as the west, NATO got involved they instantly switched sides. As far as I can tell, the left is just using "the people" as pawns in their "we hate the west" ideology.

I had to stop reading "Counterpunch" cold turkey. It was affecting my health.

 

[trustbutverify]

I had to stop reading "Counterpunch" cold turkey. It was affecting my health.

The finest principals of rational progressive humanism were abandoned by Biker Druid and the rest of the Galloway Left a long, long time ago.

 

[Stout]

Counterpunch does get a lot of cites but on Libya a favourite was Mathaba, Gaddafi's own propaganda machine. Hey did you catch that global research article where Chossudovsky "exposes" the BBC for showing celebrations in "Tripoli" and sleuthing out that the celebrations were really filmed in India ?

Big disinfo campaign, says Chossudovsky after questioning whether or not the BBC had made a mistake. I mean he had to know that a week before his article Infowars, of all places had contacted the BBC asking for an explanation and the BBC said...oops, pushed the wrong button.

Still, Chossudovsky presented and nobody on the left questioned it because it was what they wanted to hear.

 

[trustbutverify]

Counterpunch does get a lot of cites but on Libya a favourite was Mathaba, Gaddafi's own propaganda machine. Hey did you catch that global research article where Chossudovsky "exposes" the BBC for showing celebrations in "Tripoli" and sleuthing out that the celebrations were really filmed in India ?

Big disinfo campaign, says Chossudovsky after questioning whether or not the BBC had made a mistake. I mean he had to know that a week before his article Infowars, of all places had contacted the BBC asking for an explanation and the BBC said...oops, pushed the wrong button.

Still, Chossudovsky presented and nobody on the left questioned it because it was what they wanted to hear.

I used to browse GR, CP, and IW just to see what the creeps were currently blithering about. But it just got to the point where smoke started coming out of my ears.

I never looked at Mathaba. I think that might have made my head explode.

 

[bikerdruid]

The finest principals of rational progressive humanism were abandoned by Biker Druid and the rest of the Galloway Left a long, long time ago.