UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[edge]

That is not true. A UFO is something which appears to be a flying object but which has not been identified as some particular known thing. UFOs aren't necessarily actual objects, much less conveyances.{b] Some UFOs have turned out to be reflections, bugs, helium balloons, and pelicans,[/b] none of which are conveyances.




So they remain unidentified. And more importantly, there is no objective evidence to suggest there's any truth to your anecdote. We may dismiss it from consideration.




Since there is no objective evidence to support the notion that even one kind of alien exists, suggesting that an unidentified thing may fall into a narrowed range of 5 or 6 possibilities is not reasonable. It's a guess, made up from scratch, a piece of fiction.




So they remain unidentified.

In yellow:
Not to me because I have witnessed them and they are aerial conveyances literally and in bold above these then are mundane and explainable but even our government says that 10 or so percent are unknown to them, but not to me...

 

[ehcks]

really, which part are you talking about?

You're assuming something exists without evidence, then assigning properties to it. Properties that first don't exist, and second you have no evidence for.

You're just stacking extraordinary claims on top of each other without backing up any of them.

 

[Tomtomkent]

really, which part are you talking about?

The bit where you know what a UFO is.
The bit where you know it is a conveyence.
The bit where you know it is based on electromagnetism...

Pretty much everything you claim to know about UNIDENTIFIED flying objects is, by its very nature, nonsensical.

 

[Resume]

In yellow:
Not to me because I have witnessed them and they are aerial conveyances literally and in bold above these then are mundane and explainable but even our government says that 10 or so percent are unknown to them, but not to me...

You sure seem certain about a lot of stuff the rest of us aren't. Seems unlikely.

 

[Tomtomkent]

In yellow:
Not to me because I have witnessed them and they are aerial conveyances literally and in bold above these then are mundane and explainable but even our government says that 10 or so percent are unknown to them, but not to me...

Yes, but to the rest of us that is utter nonsense. You can claim to "know" they are anything you like, but in every meaningful sense, they are unknown.

Unless you want to explain HOW you know?

 

[edge]

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a null hypothesis. It means that the claim of guilt from the accuser is to be assumed wrong until he has enough evidence supporting him. And then they go to court where both sides show evidence.

The most general null hypothesis is "Any claim is assumed wrong until it's supported by enough evidence."

For any claim to be scientific, it must be falsifiable. Sometimes, a claim isn't falsifiable, and you can instead invert it into the null hypothesis, which then can be falsified instead. If the inverse of a statement is false, the original statement is true.

Your claim is apparently "UFO means alien spacecraft." The only way UFO can mean alien spacecraft is if some UFOs actually are alien spacecraft, so your claim is really "Some UFOs are alien spacecraft. This claim can be shown true, but can not be falsified, so it's not a scientific claim. But remember, you claim must be assumed false until you have evidence. Its null hypothesis, the assumed falsity of your claim, is "No UFO is an alien craft," or more precisely "All UFOs are of mundane origin."

This null hypothesis is the inverse of your hypothesis, which means its properties are also inverted. Your claim can be proved but not falsified. Its null can not be proved, but can be falsified. This is important. Science doesn't prove anything, it falsifies statements until what's left is the most likely truth.

To falsify this null hypothesis, you just show one UFO that is an alien spacecraft. How you do this is another topic. Once you do, the null is falsified, and so your claim is shown to be true. And that's all you have to do. Find one alien spacecraft.

In yellow:
Not to me because I have witnessed them and they are aerial conveyances literally and in bold above these then are mundane and explainable but even our government says that 10 or so percent are unknown to them, but not to me...

Do you think that the government or any government will let you keep the evidence?
This would prove also that the government is not in control and that’s something they won’t allow.
If I said I had a piece of hard ware that I got from them directly and the moment I proved it… how many government agencies would be at my house to take it away?
How fast would they de-bunk it?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Not to me because I have witnessed them and they are aerial conveyances literally and in bold above these then are mundane and explainable but even our government says that 10 or so percent are unknown to them, but not to me...

Do you think that the government or any government will let you keep the evidence?[/COLOR]This would prove also that the government is not in control and that’s something they won’t allow.
If I said I had a piece of hard ware that I got from them directly and the moment I proved it… how many government agencies would be at my house to take it away?
How fast would they de-bunk it?

A story. Not evidence. Not anything but an unsupported claim.
So you know what ALL UFOs are? Even the ones you haven't seen? Based on what?
Whose government? Why? What are you basing THIS accusation on?

So you have an opinion that something you saw, looked to you like a spaceship, therefore not only must ALL unidentified objects be spaceships, but (according to previous post) you know how they work (electromagnets!) and what the government will do about it!

Wow. And all with out evidence or anything.

 

[Stray Cat]

In yellow:
Not to me because I have witnessed them and they are aerial conveyances literally and in bold above these then are mundane and explainable

Many people claim to have witnessed them... many people have been shown to have been wrong. To date, no one has been shown to have been correct. Why would your perception of what you saw be infallible?

but even our government says that 10 or so percent are unknown to them, but not to me...

You know what "unknown" means right?

Do you think that the government or any government will let you keep the evidence?

Yes... "finders keeper loser weepers" and all that, it's the law isn't it?

This would prove also that the government is not in control and that’s something they won’t allow.

Which countries government?
Or are you suggesting that countries at war with each other manage to keep enough cooperation between their waring militaries in order to maintain this worldwide secret?

If I said I had a piece of hard ware that I got from them directly and the moment I proved it… how many government agencies would be at my house to take it away?

None

How fast would they de-bunk it?

They wouldn't unless your claim contained a large amount of 'bunk'.

 

[GeeMack]

In yellow:
Not to me because I have witnessed them and they are aerial conveyances literally and in bold above these then are mundane and explainable but even our government says that 10 or so percent are unknown to them, but not to me...

There is no rational reason to accept that anything you're saying is true. It's an unsupported claim and can therefore be dismissed.

 

[Tomtomkent]

There is no rational reason to accept that anything you're saying is true. It's an unsupported claim and can therefore be dismissed.

That which can be supposed with out evidence can be dismissed likewise.

 

[AdMan]

This is utter nonsense.

really, which part are you talking about?

This part:

They are a conveyance of sorts.
They demonstrate a physics that we are investigating, Electromagnetic propulsion systems.
The x secretary of the Naval intelligent and of the CIA, Bob Inman after retiring has started this facility; SAIC anti gravitational propulsion systems San Diego, trying to find the technology that he believes is being demonstrated.

In yellow: After witnessing some of these vehicles within 100 to 500 yards or so, for me they are no longer UFOs.
What remains a mystery is who is piloting these vehicles?
Alien is what it is, with 5 or 6 possibilities.
When you figure that out then we’ll know.
Sure some could be military, that’s one.

 

[Astrophotographer]

Not to me because I have witnessed them and they are aerial conveyances literally and in bold above these then are mundane and explainable but even our government says that 10 or so percent are unknown to them, but not to me...

Ok, so you know what UFOs are. What is the next step? To me the next step in any scientific pursuit of something unknown is to gather real evidence for that unknown so it can become known. In the case of UFOs, you seem to have seen many (you use the word in a plural form). This means you know how to see them or you are just Really Really Really Lucky. In either case, the next step is to gather evidence that can not be questioned. In my case, I would establish a UFO "trap" using video equipment at several locations for triangulation purposes. Of course, this would take time and money. Perhaps you and UFOlogy can get together on this or maybe your local UFO club will help invest. It would require work but imagine the pay off if you got the goods on UFOs!!! You can come into this forum and brag about how you solved the mystery and you have evidence of what UFOs are! Skeptics would genuflect at your feet in honor of such an accomplishment. The alien brothers would also realize the jig is up and land on the white house lawn for all to see and give you high praise.

However, you have to take the next step. What is stopping you?

 

[John Albert]

This is important. Science doesn't prove anything, it falsifies statements until what's left is the most likely truth.

It may be helpful to think of it this way:

"I am not what I eat; I am that which I do not poop."

 

[Garrison]

Garrison:

Too bad you are still missing the point. And your threats that I'll be called names if I don't agree with the deniers and name callers is laughable. I've been through far worse here already.

it's not a threat its an observation, your treatment in this thread is entirely the result of your insistence that everyone else adapt their terminology and standards to suit your agenda. Modify them in fact in such a way that others would be compelled to accept that the statement 'I saw something in the sky and it must have been an spacecraft form another world' has to be treated as proof of alien visitation. It is not going to happen so you can either adapt or keep demanding special treatment and be treated accordingly.

 

[Garrison]

Do you think that the government or any government will let you keep the evidence?
This would prove also that the government is not in control and that’s something they won’t allow.

Right the super controlling US government that couldn't stop one Private walking off with armload's of its secrets nor prevent a website broadcasting them to the world, that government?

 

[Jocce]

In yellow:
Not to me because I have witnessed them and they are aerial conveyances literally and in bold above these then are mundane and explainable but even our government says that 10 or so percent are unknown to them,

So, show us the evidence. Or should I take your word for it?

 

[edge]

Ok, so you know what UFOs are. What is the next step? To me the next step in any scientific pursuit of something unknown is to gather real evidence for that unknown so it can become known. In the case of UFOs, you seem to have seen many (you use the word in a plural form). This means you know how to see them or you are just Really Really Really Lucky. In either case, the next step is to gather evidence that can not be questioned. In my case, I would establish a UFO "trap" using video equipment at several locations for triangulation purposes. Of course, this would take time and money. Perhaps you and UFOlogy can get together on this or maybe your local UFO club will help invest. It would require work but imagine the pay off if you got the goods on UFOs!!! You can come into this forum and brag about how you solved the mystery and you have evidence of what UFOs are! Skeptics would genuflect at your feet in honor of such an accomplishment. The alien brothers would also realize the jig is up and land on the white house lawn for all to see and give you high praise.

However, you have to take the next step. What is stopping you?

I would go back to Northern California because it is a hot spot.
It would take money sure and time, up to several months sightings are rare they are not at anyone’s beckoned call.
What I have witnessed hasn't happened in a few months but rather over a forty-year or more span.
I don't belong to any club and am not a fanatic about it.
So now that I know that some are real conveyances the next question is whose flying them?
This is the part that is the scariest.
The last choices that coincide with all that we know… it is what we are left with in this world at this moment.

1. Aliens from another planet within our universe.
2. Aliens from another dimension or universe.
3. Time travelers, possibly from our future.
4. Angelic beings either fallen or not.
5. Our government’s secret new conveyances.
6. All of the above.
7. None of the above

Anybody that posses this knowledge of their systems particularly their propulsion systems will basically rule the world.
This is why governments have secret programs that involve Gravitational Electro propulsion research is going on.
They think that there is some thing behind what is being demonstrated and might even be revere engineering crashed conveyances and have known for years.

At this point I would have to choose # 6.
This is why the 10% are so confusing.
Plus they are all interested in our makeup DNA, Why, form these choices is that so?
The next question I have to ask is why are all most all encounters horrific to the people involved?
No one on this planet has the capability to hoax what I have seen just to reiterate my stance.

 

[ufology]

... The remaining evidence, to use the term very loosely, is a bunch of fairy tales passed around among "ufologists" for the purpose of bolstering their irrational belief that unidentified things, by nature of the fact that they're unidentified, are some particular thing, a thing that has never been demonstrated to exist. It's the foundation of a culture of pseudoscience, based on fantasy and fraud, and wholly detached from reality. Objectively it fits in the same category as gods, Santa Claus, and Bigfoot.

GeeMack:

Unfortunately you choose to deny the overwhelming dicumented evidence in support of what the word UFO means to convey, and choose self-servingly to portray it using not the actual definition(s) or even the common understanding, but the mere word origin in the form of the individual words that makeup the acronym. So long as you continue misrepresenting the meaning of the word in this way, we have nothing further to discuss on the word origin, meaning or usage.

As for you saying that UFOs ( alien craft ) have never been demonstrated to exist. all you can say with any certainty is that they have never been demonstrated to you. They have however been demonstrated to me and many other people. I freely admit that I cannot replicate my observation and therefore cannot provide scientific proof. Therefore you may reasonably choose to dismiss that evidence and/or reserve judgement, ( reject the null hypothesis ), but going beyond that by claiming that because alien craft have never been proven to exist, it therefore proves they don't exist, is an argument from ignorance. Therefore you cannot make your claim with any certainty without revealing your bias.

Lastly, your analogy between UFOs and gods is false, and comparing the phenomena to fairy tales is equally false logic. Simply because unicorns or Santa Clause are fairy tales is not proof that UFOs are also fairy tales, and to make that assertion with such certainty once again only reveals your prejudice and bias. Consequently, it seems we have nothing further to discuss. Perhaps I'll run across some video or case study that you can help debunk and I'll look forward to your responses at that time.

 

[edge]

So, show us the evidence. Or should I take your word for it?

This is as close as I can take you to privileged information.
You will have the proof later from somewhere.
Because sooner or later the UFO phenomena will be reveled, by who I don't know…and mysteries are meant to be solved.
There is nothing we can’t do or find out.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Again you claim you KNOW some are conveyences, but have no PROOF. Ergo, you either assume, believe or claim they are conveyences, but you can not KNOW with out PROOF. Otherwise, despite your claims, yes, you are a fanatic.

And why are those six the last choices? That coincide with everything you KNOW?

Nope, sorry, that is all still prized twaddle.