Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.
RoseMontague said:
Reasons posters have one opinion or another.

Both sides tend to think the other side is not capable of rational thought.
Click to expand...


That's true — and one side is actually correct with that assessment I'm not at all afraid to say …
 
PMF-Peggy said:
So if I have understood correctly, these people watch this board like it was a television program that is slightly above their comprehension level and then discuss amongst themselves to arrive a shared understanding of what they think is going on over here.

Something like that?
Click to expand...


Assolutamente!
 
Tyvek suits

Draca said:
I believe they were Tyvek Suits

Steve Moore discusses the suits starting at 7.07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSf4KWHvOEo

INDUTEX 'SPRAYGUARD' BIOLOGICAL SUITS
LEVEL 3 ECOLOGICAL SUITS
http://www.indutexspa.com/index.asp?lang=2&id_head=49&id_father=531

"attached hood, tall collar, with attached hood and boots or sock and boot cover flap."


It seems like the suits are one piece suits. Perhaps harder boots are meant to be worn over them. The forensic team wore the suits as a complete outfit. I don't know if they at times wore 'booties' over the one pieces but it looks like they very often did not.


Photo of suit boots:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_401664e448937986ad.jpg[/qimg]
Click to expand...

Draca,

This is very interesting. I was viewing parts 11 and 12 of the videos hosted by Oggi. It looks to me as if they are standing in or near the dried bloodstains in Meredith's room. I do not know how easy it is to pick up blood that it is dried, but on the other hand one would not need to pick up much in a DNA or luminol-based experiment.
 
HumanityBlues said:
I think this is relevant seeing how Ann Coulter wrote a timely article about Amanda Knox. Now she is writing about Troy Davis, who is innocent: http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2011-09-21.html. She tweets:
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/MQ0gq.png[/qimg]

Ann Coulter, wrong about everything.
Click to expand...


The Ann Coulter Law - Always Wrong, All the time.
Troy Davis should have been able to appeal on those grounds alone.

The American judicial appeals system is a mess. It seems vertially impossible to get an appeal approved. This needs to change. Troy Davis deserved to have his case looked at again.

I have grown to appreciate the Italian system's automatic appeal. They have problems, obviously, but no one is being put to death and everyone gets an appeal. If a wrongful conviction happens in the USA it is likely that person will never get an appeal or it will take away years of their lives.


RIP Troy Davis. I believe a great injustice has been done to you.
 
Last edited:
Dan O. said:
I only find it mentioned in Massei's summary of Amanda's testimony
From page [56] (always the Italian page number)
... Continuing on page [67]

​
This part is apparently not in the transcripts of Amanda's testimony that I have.

The fact that the recorded temperature was only 13ºC is also an indication that the heat was not turned on:
from page [177]​
Click to expand...


Thanks Dan O.!

13 C. / 55 F. - The window was broken but Filomena's door was shut. The cold air would go under the door and chill the cottage, but if the heat was on it would have likely still been warmer. The heat not being turned up is yet another indicator that MK was attacked shortly after arriving home.

Draca

ETA:
Originally Posted by christianahannah:
This temperature ( 13 C.) was recorded at 0:50 on November 3, 2007 according to Massei (page 110). Later at 12 noon on November 3, the ambient temperature was recorded as 18 C. (page 113).
 
Last edited:
katy_did said:
I tend to disagree. 'The scream' was widely reported in the media after Amanda's statement was released (perhaps the handful of 'ear witnesses' who later came forward claiming to have heard a scream were influenced by that early press coverage). Guede would likely have read that coverage, so it doesn't seem all that unlikely he decided to weave this apparent 'truth' into his own account.

Guede also needed 'the scream' to have happened to make his story work. He said he was in the bathroom listening to his ipod when he heard it - a scream loud enough to be heard over the sound of the music - and it was this which caused him to leave the bathroom and come face to face with the mysterious attacker, and to see an Amanda-shaped 'shadow' out the window. Without the scream, he has nothing to explain why he left the bathroom just at that moment. So perhaps he simply incorporated the scream into his story because it was convenient, not because it happened.

Having said that, it's certainly very possible there really was a scream, and that Guede mentioned it because he worried someone else had heard it. I just think that to say "if Rudy said there was one there was. That's it" is greatly overestimating the certainty of it.



The discussion was actually about whether the scream happened when Meredith first saw Rudy, or immediately before she was stabbed (perhaps that's what you meant by the start of the violence; I think that moment was probably the end of the violence rather than the beginning, though). But when the knife was produced is certainly one more possibility, even if I wouldn't put a 98% probability figure on any of them. :).
Click to expand...

That was one of my typically rushed and bady typed posts.

I'm quite sure that no matter what the interactions were at the time, whether it is discovering Rudy's presence in the flat or just after a punch or two, the scream will come from Meredith watching Rudy whip the knife out.

In another badly typed post I said could have said in a better way that if there is a legal lophole Minini can exploit in regard to the revue it's probably time to address that loophole itself.

The appeal has highlighted the continuing frauds of the cops and prosecution.

These small laws get amended on the spot all the time when circumstances, such as this trial, show it's necessary and about time. I know there's been a couple of hastily redrawn legal matters in Australia in the last couple of weeks. I can't remember what for , but possibly one had to do with legal requirements for the venue for the Davis Cup tennis.
 
Last edited:
halides1 said:
Draca,

This is very interesting. I was viewing parts 11 and 12 of the videos hosted by Oggi. It looks to me as if they are standing in or near the dried bloodstains in Meredith's room. I do not know how easy it is to pick up blood that it is dried, but on the other hand one would not need to pick up much in a DNA or luminol-based experiment.
Click to expand...


halides1,

Yeah, they walk all over the dried blood in the one piece hazmat suits and then traipse all over the cottage in the suits. There is never a time in the video where an over-bootie is even seen on a whitesuit. There is no pile of used booties, never a box of unused booties. They walked freely all around the cottage from one room to the next traipsing with them whatever they picked up along the way. Yet another shocking forensic blunder from the 'crack' Perugia forensic team directed by Patrizia Stefanoni. :eye-poppi


Photo that shows the foot as being part of the suit:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...01286599.45660.106344459390034&type=1&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...86599.45660.106344459390034&type=1&permPage=1

Oggi Video link:
http://www.oggi.it/focus/attualita/...mento-del-gancetto-del-reggiseno-di-meredith/
 
Last edited:
Draca said:
Thanks Dan O.!

13 C. / 55 F. - That temperature was probably taken in the afternoon when the police arrived. 2:00 p.m. would be a lot warmer than when Meredith Kercher arrived home about 9:00 p.m. The window was broken but Filomena's door was shut. The cold air would go under the door and chill the cottage, but if the heat was on it would have likely still been warmer. The heat not being turned up is yet another indicator that MK was attacked shortly after arriving home.

Draca
Click to expand...

This temperature ( 13 C.) was recorded at 0:50 on November 3, 2007 according to Massei (page 110). Later at 12 noon on November 3, the ambient temperature was recorded as 18 C. (page 113).
 
Draca said:
The Ann Coulter Law - Always Wrong, All the time.
Troy Davis should have been able to appeal on those grounds alone.

The American judicial appeals system is a mess. It seems vertially impossible to get an appeal approved. This needs to change. Troy Davis deserved to have his case looked at again.

I have grown to appreciate the Italian system's automatic appeal. They have problems, obviously, but no one is being put to death and everyone gets an appeal. If a wrongful conviction happens in the USA it is likely that person will never get an appeal or it will take away years of their lives.


RIP Troy Davis. I believe a great injustice has been done to you.
Click to expand...

I am sorry that the execution of Troy Davis proceeded without a further review. I am not sure whether he was guilty or not, however, I am opposed to the death penalty. I don't think it accomplishes what those who agree with its use think it will accomplish.

You are correct Draca that the United States judicial/appeal system is in need of reform.
 
christianahannah said:
This temperature ( 13 C.) was recorded at 0:50 on November 3, 2007 according to Massei (page 110). Later at 12 noon on November 3, the ambient temperature was recorded as 18 C. (page 113).
Click to expand...


Thanks christianahannah,


It still seems to me the heat would be turned on at 13C.

I wonder what the roommates said they normally did?
 
christianahannah said:
I am sorry that the execution of Troy Davis proceeded without a further review. I am not sure whether he was guilty or not, however, I am opposed to the death penalty. I don't think it accomplishes what those who agree with its use think it will accomplish.

You are correct Draca that the United States judicial/appeal system is in need of reform.
Click to expand...

Yes, need to fry 'em sooner. Saves money, ya see, and in these fiscally constrained times, ya gotta cut cost where ya can.

By the way, Hannah ain't gonna be freed any time soon. :p
 
Draca said:
The Ann Coulter Law - Always Wrong, All the time.
Click to expand...
Her error rate is so high I think of her as a professional troll, but she is right about Mumia. I can't help but think of the fable of the boy who cried wolf in regards to Knox. Too many had people cried " wolf" in other cases without just cause, so many people (like me) didn't give too much credit to the innocenti claim at first.

It's interesting that Peggy Ganong and Ann Coutler are politically diametrically opposed and yet agree on the guilt of Knox. As if left wing and right wing rather than being opposite directions on an opposing line are opposite directions on a circle. At the top is the centrist position, at the Left/west and right/east sides are the left and right wing. Then the extreme left and right keep traveling down the circle till they meet at the bottom, ending up with the same position even though they got there from opposite directions,
 
I see a number of posters asking me questions. I'll answer them later, partly because of time constraints, partly because the proceedings of the next two weeks will sweep away any discussions. After that we will have plenty of time again to discuss guilt or innocence, 90 days waiting for the Motivations report while hailing or cursing the court.. :)
 
Last edited:
I can't help writing one thing, though, as I'm watching yesterday's "Porta a Porta" TV show video playback.
They played Amanda's last statement before the first degree verdict.
Listening to it again I find it strange and supporting my theory (that she was there but did not murder) the fact that her denial is somewhat "technical" on this point. She almost always says that she (or they with Raffaele) did not murder, instead of saying that they were not in the cottage at all, that night.
 
Interesting quote from Patrick's lawyer, translation from a poster at PMF:

Some very hard words from Carlo Pacelli, Lumumba's counsel.

He begins:"I will explain to the Appeal Court of the Assizes that Knox studded the whole of her route with nonsense, lies. A mixture of falsehood and truth from a consummate actress. She claimed for example to have stayed in Perugia to help the police. Which does not correspond with the truth. On the day of November 3rd 2007, a little more than 24 hours from the discovery of Mez's body, talking with her Aunt Dorothy, who lives in Germany, she was listened into and in response to her relation's invitation to go to her in Germany, the student replied: 'They have told me that I cannot go away.'
Therefore she had not stayed of her own will, but because of a precise request by the investigators."
The lawyer completes his reasoning: "The day of the 4th she was already feeling [the police] breathing down her neck, she was becoming aware of being under suspicion seeing that she said: 'They are treating me like a criminal.'

The most incisive attack, however, is the one Pacelli makes on the calumny.

He continues , referring in detail to her false accusation of Lumumba. But he does not stop there, referring to her confession to being present at the crime scene. Her reference to the scream, also heard by Signora Capezzali, but not reported until November 21st, whilst Knox refers to it on November 6th. Then there is the further confirmation from Signora Monacchia.

He concludes: "... on November 8th she availed herself of the faculty of not responding. And she continued to accuse, and to falsely accuse Patrick Lumumba. No, no: she continued to lie to guarantee impunity to Rudy Guede, to distance suspicions from herself, to save herself."
Click to expand...

It sounds like an argument that the Knox girl was a suspect well before she was named a suspect and should have been appointed a lawyer. Maybe the defense team should allow Patrick's lawyer to make this argument for them.

How does she continue to accuse Patrick by exercising the right to silence? Is he ignoring her hand written statement, "who is the real murderer"? The scream is pretty much a joke, "surely you heard a scream, OK I heard a scream". And how did she cover for Rudy and if she was innocent how would she know he was the killer? Did she stage a break in that if the cops had an ounce of sense would have pointed straight to him? How come she magically cleaned up evidence of their presence but left the evidence that Rudy did it?

The argument makes no sense. Amanda broke under the pressure and admitted to a version of events that the cops just knew to be true. The cops were wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
 
Last edited:
bolint said:
I can't help writing one thing, though, as I'm watching yesterday's "Porta a Porta" TV show video playback.
They played Amanda's last statement before the first degree verdict.
Listening to it again I find it strange and supporting my theory (that she was there but did not murder) the fact that her denial is somewhat "technical" on this point. She almost always says that she (or they with Raffaele) did not murder, instead of saying that they were not in the cottage at all, that night.
Click to expand...

What did the Kercher's say?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom