Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[RoseMontague]

A blob that is a woman in skirt.
She crosses the street and goes to the gates.
(At least as much as in the Meredith version, which seems to be accepted here)

No other houses nearby.

So it is plausibly Meredith or Amanda.
Meredith was wearing jeans, undisputedly.

It is plausibly a blob.

 

[LondonJohn]

A blob that is a woman in skirt.
She crosses the street and goes to the gates.
(At least as much as in the Meredith version, which seems to be accepted here)

No other houses nearby.

So it is plausibly Meredith or Amanda.
Meredith was wearing jeans, undisputedly.

And Meredith was carrying a large beige tote bag. And it's the tote bag that is visible in the CCTV stills: it's clearly being held such that it hangs down in front of the person's legs as they are walking. The figure in the CCTV is Meredith, wearing mid-blue jeans, carrying a beige tote bag at waist level.

 

[bolint]

I believe the police claim of no computer interaction from shortly after 9PM to early the next morning is a bunch of baloney.

I also the believe the police expert is an incompetent idiot.

Maybe.

But how do you explain that the defence's supposedly competent experts could not find much more, either?

They received the clone of the hard drive in mid November.
So they had had more than a full year till the trial.
They did not have to wait for the "incompetent police experts".
They could have collected the hundreds of files opened or modified supporting Raffaele's hours of work and net browsing on the machine.

But the only essential thing they came up with was the meager 21:26 Naruto opening.
Not much.

 

[RoseMontague]

Can someone that is plausibly more familiar with this subject give me an approximate value on these 5 pot plants?

 

[Kestrel]

I don't see a skirt. Does anyone else here see a skirt?

According to this article, the Perugia police saw a skirt in the "clear cut image" from the CCTV camera. Now that we have all seen the image, it's clear this was just a media play to discredit the suspects.

Funny how the same people who keep calling Amanda a liar don't seem to mind the police telling lies about Amanda.

 

[bolint]

Are you saying that some here really see a skirt and would lie about it? It looks to me like pants, she is carrying a bag or maybe a book.

Some? Definitely.
But I'm sure that many others would sincerely see now a skirt if Meredith had been wearing one.

 

[RoseMontague]

Maybe.

But how do you explain that the defence's supposedly competent experts could not find much more, either?

They received the clone of the hard drive in mid November.
So they had had more than a full year till the trial.
They did not have to wait for the "incompetent police experts".
They could have collected the hundreds of files opened or modified supporting Raffaele's hours of work and net browsing on the machine.

But the only essential thing they came up with was the meager 21:26 Naruto opening.
Not much.

It depends on how you define essential. I would love to see what a truly independent expert would say.

 

[bolint]

It depends on how you define essential. I would love to see what a truly independent expert would say.

You can list all the findings in the broadest definition of essential.

I tell you: there is none.

The defence's competent expert have this disk.
And they have found Naruto. That's all.
Otherwise they would have come out with it.

 

[LondonJohn]

A note on the legal processes and the status of Knox and Sollecito:

1) Knox's/Sollecito's current status
Knox and Sollecito are currently considered innocent in Italian law. They will not be considered guilty unless they are ultimately convicted by the Supreme Court ruling. They are currently in prison, but not because they are serving a prison sentence for the crimes. They are in prison because they have been remanded into custody pending the outcome of the trial process. And they've been remanded because of a) the gravity and nature of the charges against them; b) the risk of reoffending; and c) the assessment that they pose a potential flight risk. Knox and Sollecito are not therefore in the same category as convicted prisoners: this is almost certainly why they are accorded certain privileges that are likely not afforded to convicted prisoners, such as a high number of visits.

2) What happens upon acquittal?
When Knox and Sollecito are acquitted, they will almost certainly be released virtually immediately. It's possible that certain restrictions might be placed on their movements pending a potential prosecution appeal the the Supreme Court, but I think it's more likely that they will have no restrictions placed on their movements. I think Knox will therefore be free to return to the USA, on the understanding that she might have to return to Italy in the event of further legal proceedings.

3) If they are acquitted, what will happen in regard to the Supreme Court?
The prosecution has the right (but not the obligation) to appeal to the Supreme Court, but only on points of law and not on findings of fact. If the prosecution does decide to appeal, then the Supreme Court will hear the case and make a ruling accordingly. Kno and Sollecito will almost certainly not be required to be present for any Supreme Court issues.

4) What if there's a prosecution appeal to the Supreme Court, and it's successful?
If the prosecution were to appeal to the Supreme Court, and if the Supreme Court were to rule that Hellmann's court had indeed made errors in the application of law, this doesn't mean that Knox and Sollecito would have their acquittals reversed. In such a scenario, the Supreme Court would refer the case back to the appeal court level - i.e. Knox and Sollecito would have a retrial at the appeal level. Both Knox and Sollecito would be required to appear back at court for a new appeal trial, which would be held under exactly the same circumstances as the current Hellmann trial. I think it's unlikely that Knox or Sollecito would be taken back into custody at this point: I think they would remain at liberty until the end of any new appeal trial. If they were found guilty in this repeat trial, they would of course be taken back into custody.

Having pointed all this out, I might add that this is, in my view, purely hypothetical. I don't see any current grounds for the prosecution to appeal to the Supreme Court on issues of law. My view is that the strong likelihood is that Knox and Sollecito will be acquitted in Hellmann's court and released, and that will be the end of the matter for them.

 

[curi0us]

A blob that is a woman in skirt.
She crosses the street and goes to the gates.
(At least as much as in the Meredith version, which seems to be accepted here)

No other houses nearby.

So it is plausibly Meredith or Amanda.
Meredith was wearing jeans, undisputedly.

I think you are confusing Meredith's bag for being a skirt but I get where your theory is going and I think it is commendable the way you have tried to solve a number of clear problems in the Mignini/Massei narrative.

Can you explain the timeline fully?

I'll help get it started, if I understand correctly, you have AK and RG killing MK at around 9:20 with AK then lying about what happened to RS to get him to help with a clean up/ staged break in. RS doesn't even realize RG is involved till later as Knox would have lied about what happened to make it seem like MK attacked her and she was just defending herself. When RS implicates Knox during interrogation what he says is close to truth. Both RS and RG are confused about elements of the crime because Knox is the only one who knows the full story. Is that an accurate start?

This version deserves credit for solving the time of death issue but creates a new set problems.

 

[Rolfe]

Personally, I've looked at the CCTV picture and I can't tell anything more than something that looks human and probably female passed up the street. I can't possibly use that as evidence against Knox.

I would also point out that we know for sure Meredith walked up that street at about that time. So if that isn't her, where is she?

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

In such a scenario, the Supreme Court would refer the case back to the appeal court level - i.e. Knox and Sollecito would have a retrial at the appeal level. Both Knox and Sollecito would be required to appear back at court for a new appeal trial, which would be held under exactly the same circumstances as the current Hellmann trial. I think it's unlikely that Knox or Sollecito would be taken back into custody at this point: I think they would remain at liberty until the end of any new appeal trial. If they were found guilty in this repeat trial, they would of course be taken back into custody.

Yikes!

All this to go through again?

Rolfe.

 

[lowriderrsa]

Can someone that is plausibly more familiar with this subject give me an approximate value on these 5 pot plants?

Hi Rose

Monetary value would be difficult but from personal experience I would say looking at the condition and size of the plants, that they're not worth a lot. It looks like a few youngsters trying to grow a little somethiing for personal use. The types that believe you smoke the leaves.

 

[Grinder]

Quote:
What do you think the police chief meant when he said that they questioned Amanda until she buckled and told them what they knew to be the truth? We know that it wasn't the truth.
The police chief's boasting is irrelevant. Even Miginini called it "stupidity" in the Graham interview.

Quote:
"We know that at midnight they used a tag team of around 12 officers to question her for 2 hours before she agreed to sign a statement the police knew to be the truth.Exactly what was the truth they knew? If that truth was that Patrick had killed Meredith, do you think it was just a coincidence that Amanda fabricated the same truth?
By no means was it coincidence.
She fabricated it beacuse she did not know what Raffaele had told them and they were asking her about Lumumba's SMS.

Bolint so you're saying that the police led Amanda into saying it was Patrick. After using the DNA Selectomatic vacuum to remove their DNA and wiping their shoe prints away and all other evidence of their involvement why didn't she "remember" Rudy during that questioning and point the police in that direction?

Even Miginini called it "stupidity"

Yes, it was stupid of the chief to be so candid.

 

[Katody Matrass]

The woman is in skirt while Meredith was wearing jeans.

OK, so it's Amanda in her white skirt. Why no blood on that skirt the day after?

I don't know how much Raffaele knew about what had happened.

I actiually find it more credible that he was not there during the murder.
So I think that there was no real rehearsal concerning the murder.

So he was completely unaware and innocent? Why would he "lie repeatedly" then?

 

[Grinder]

I'm sure this has been stated before but since we again, thanks to Vogt, have a reference to the Supreme Court's ruling in the Guede case stating that he committed the crime with others.

The PGP along with the propagandist, Vogt, have long pointed to this as proof that the supremes have basically looked at the evidence and convicted AK and RS. What they and she forget is that Rudy's defense wanted it that way and never argued that it was a "lone wolf" because he would be that "lone wolf".

 

[bolint]

I think you are confusing Meredith's bag for being a skirt

No. The skirt's edge is much lower than the bottom of the bag.

Can you explain the timeline fully?

Fully? How could I?

"you have AK and RG killing MK at around 9:20 with AK then lying about what happened to RS to get him to help with a clean up/ staged break in. RS doesn't even realize RG is involved till later as Knox would have lied about what happened"

9:20 may be somewhat later, but not later than 22:20.

"to make it seem like MK attacked her and she was just defending herself."

I don't think that was the explanation. It was centered around RG, unknown to RS but referred to as someone from Lumumba's pub. Exactly what she told RS is not known. It was not necessarily murder at first.

"When RS implicates Knox during interrogation what he says is close to truth. Both RS and RG are confused about elements of the crime because Knox is the only one who knows the full story. Is that an accurate start?"

Why would RG be confused? He fully knows how the murder happened. Even by his own account.

This version deserves credit for solving the time of death issue but creates a new set problems.

Let's discuss them.

 

[lane99]

Splat: Someone's got tomato sauce on their face

...I do know that he has done so...this is a doctored image, and is not - and cannot be - the result of an individual taking a simple snapshot.

Fuji, your post #5674 (excerpted above) is a classic and will be duly nominated.

In short, despite your absolute certitude- and about which you drone on ad nauseum- you were absolutely wrong. As Steve Shay confirms below.

Recognizing the sheer fatuousness your post embodies, I would like to think, can serve as a cautionary tale for all.

The photo taken of Bruce Fisher and me was authentic. I have been a photographer for 30 years, and learned photography from my father, Art Shay, one of America's most famous photojournalists since WWII. As you can see from my thousands of posts on JREF, I am not a newcomer to this forum.

Thank you.

Steve Shay

 

[Katody Matrass]

If I "knew" what she was doing there then the case would be solved.
I don't know what she was doing there. There are many scenarios and no detailed knowledge to select the true one.

Terrific! Why don't you present some of them? Let's see how they fit with the evidence.

But I think if she was there for whatever reason and knows what happened and she does not tell it, then there is reason to convict her.

There is no proof she was there. Convict her of what?

 

[Katody Matrass]

Do you really believe that Raffaele was constantly on the machine all night long from 18:26PM to 6:22AM so that there was never an interval longer then 6 minutes during which the mouse or the keyboard was not touched?

It would be interesting in itself.
But to do this without reading or creating files, without making internet traffic and at the same time watching Amelie and then Naruto would be a remarkable feat, indeed.

You misunderstood. Media playback doesn't count as inactivity and it doesn't require input to prevent screensaver. There were a lot of movies played on the PC during the night, although IIRC Raffaele said they didn't pay much attention to the screen.