• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Science: Wonders, causality and the indeterminable

No factual concepts, eh?

Then I challenge you to jump off the nearest tall building in an effort to disprove the supposedly non-factual concept of gravity.

Get back to us with the results of your experiment, okay? ;)


Science taught you gravity? Are you serious!!!!
 
Jonesboy said:
How do you realize a wonder.
Jonesboy said:
You said that only scientists realize that all things are wonders?
:boggled:

I never said that scientists "realize a wonder". That's you putting words in my mouth--which any philosopher should know is a very, very bad thing. I mean, even if you don't believe in an objective reality (which you apparently don't, given your other posts) you should at least acknowledge the difference between "he said" and "I said"--they're inherent in the way this forum works, for one thing. And if you're confused by the phrase "realize that all things are wonders" you've officially stopped trying to understand basic English. As an aside, this is why you should avoid the convoluted writing style you seem to love: when you write in convoluted ways and fail to grasp basic, common conversational patterns you come off looking like someone who only pretends to be smart.

Scientists generally have a better understanding of the complexity of what are considered mundane things than the average person. In part, it's because they associate with people who work on them. Ever talk to a geologist about rocks in their rock garden? Or a physicist about ink-jet printing? Scientists tend to associate with scientists, who are all intensely interested in their field of work. It's infectous; you pick up on the wonder and awe of the things your colleagues feel wonder and awe when working on. And in part it's because people who become scientists are the type who find reality to be facinating anyway, so they're more likely to look for the wonder inherent in the mundane.

To a non-scientist, a black hole is a wonder and a wooden table is merely something they set their plates on when they eat. To a scientist, both represent wonders: the black hole because of the massive preasures and physical forces involved, the wooden table because of the complex chemistry, eons of evolutionary history, and fairly interesting Newtonian forces involved.

Is that what a scientist does? Realize a wonder?
I'm forced to ask: have you ever DONE anything in science? You said that you worked on "creating new methods for making novel aromatic compounds." However, you constantly talk about science the way someone who'd only learned of it through reading Creationist websites and post-modernist philosophy would speak of it. It's like you're trying to describe a continent you've never seen, but you've read a couple of travel guides.
 
Science taught you gravity? Are you serious!!!!
Yes, he is. And that you find that so incredible says much about how blind and deaf you are to the world around you. Realizing that you can putz the keys of a piano to produce sounds and hearing the harmony of a melody, playing one, or even producing their own, are different things. Would you also find it so incredible if someone said they were taught music?

Science is the difference between seeing that things tend to fall down and seeing how everything in the universe is interconnected. Science is the difference between recognizing that feeling in your posterior as you sit in your chair and recognizing the symmetries of natural laws.
None of that is obvious. If it were, then the myriads of extraordinary smart people throughout history would have figured it out millennia ago. As it was, it took painstaking observations, rigorous calculations, and a deep insight by several people to figure out just the starting point of gravity's story.
 
I don't recall natural wonders ever being called wonders of science though.
Could you give links where that actually happens?

When someone mentions wonders of science I think of things like the GPS and sattelite network that allow us to instantly communicate everywhere on the world.
The doubling of human life expectancy by modern medicine.
The space program that allows us to *see* the natural wonders out there.
The machines that allow us to create the engineering marvels of the world.

All things only made possible by the modern method of science, the one not practiced before the 1600's or so
 
Scientists are no more or less, right or wrong, in their judgement powers than anyone else.


The rest was funny. You are a little firebox!
Rest assured. A good old chinwag wasn't it though. I have a degree in Chemistry and LRIC biocemistry. I worked in the chemical industry creating new methods for making novel aromatic compounds. Oh, and the MA in analytic Philosophy. Hm! Should suffice, me thinks, what say you now o loon faced clown? (Shakespeare, Macbeth).

Was it a one year MA? That would explain why your ideas resemble those of a first year philosophy student.
 
The Interminable is a mystery. This is empty metaphysics.
Yes, it's also tautological. Moreover, I don't find anything interesting in it: it certainly doesn't tell me anything about why you "fancy the indeterminable".
The Indeterminable is infinity. This is empty mathematics.
Actually, there's nothing mathematical in that statement.

The Indeterminable is lost meaning. This is empty grammar.
I'll agree that it's "empty grammar", but I won't agree that it's correct. And, again, it tells us nothing about why you "fancy the indeterminable".

The indeterminable is lost results. This is chemistry.
What does the bolded have to do with chemistry?
 
Crafts were passed down. Not science. This science myth becomes boring, very very quickly. We ALWAYS could do things methodically. Even our church was the bastion of method. Science was a breakaway movement.

Ah yes the method of exterminating women and seizing their property, torture to force confessions and wars. Great method there.

the pope is infallible , what?

And your evidence is still lacking
 
Your error is in assuming, without any justification or explanation, that it is the scientists who are wrong. This is not correct--it is the rest of the world who splits the universe between scientific wonders and the mundane. Scientists realize that ALL objects are wonders, from the smallest to the largest and everything in between.

I know what you mean, there is no meaning. Just reality, which is wonderful.

If the sun was 1 mm in diameter than alpha centauri is 18 miles away.

The galactic center is 117,000 miles away.

Mind blowing scale.
 
It doesn't matter. Read the whole sentence.

Ah, data and evidence, citations are lacking.

Welcome to the JREF.

Citations, any?

No just apparent mental masturbation on your part.

Too bad you won't converse, we could learn from you. But your introspective navel gazing is boring.

You like so many assume that no one else has ever pondered these things, and that you are elucidating new concepts. Actually most of us have.

You can keep babbling to here yourself, or you can join the conversation. Many a fine philosopher has, I still miss HammeGK.
 
You said that only scientists realize that all things are wonders? How do you realize a wonder. Is that what a scientist does? Realize a wonder?

Through context and learning context of emotions.

Unless you engage in some kantian ******** and believe that emotions are inherently existing and self defining.

Which they are not.
 
No. No medium to support pressure waves => no sound.
So, you can't be sure it actually ever happened.... It may exist -or not- only within your mind, your mind gave birth to it. Everything and the only thing that exists are thoughts, ideas.

Thus, materialism is shown wrong.

Post-modern neo-Kantian stuff is easy to fabricate. Its use? Good to impress some pseudo intellectual esoteric-minded half-drunken, half-stoned chicks at pubs. A shortcut to their... Well, you've got the meaning.
 
The four Causalities of Science

Science has four types of causality: Newtonian, mind/brain, quantum/relativistic, and form/non-form. All but the Newtonian causality are employed in two creation myths - mind, and the physical universe.

The creation of the Universe according to Science
Quantum and relatavistic theories, patched around the ultimately topological ideas of string theory, today pose as one pole of Science's creation myth. The other pole is emptiness from which the former are presumed to be in a causal relationship.

Science's universe creation myth assumes form and non-form. Science expresses the relationship of form and non-form as the relationship between quantum/relativistic events and emptiness.
 
What do you think gravity is, Jonesboy? What exactly?


If you haven't come across gravity how will you know what the mathematical description is about?

And if you have come across gravity then that is what the mathematical description is about.

Which of these?
 
Please post all answers to my similar post which was moved to the Philosophy/Religion thread.
 
Why don't you stick to that thread that got moved since they're philosophy based, and not science based. They've given you answers there already.
 

Back
Top Bottom