Could the very high rate of mental illness in Europe be related to religion decline?

[TimCallahan]

Edge: This thread isn't about whether or not its a sin to worry. In his OP, DOC contended that Europe's high rate of mental illness stemmed from a decline in religion. I pointed out that once strokes, dementias and ADHD are removed, European rates are comparable to U.S. rates in studies that did not include those conditions. Ergo, DOC hasn't proved his point. The evidence does not, after all, support his view. I also pointed out that, with comparable rates of church attendance, Canada and the U.S. had widely varying rates of mental illness, the U.S. rate being more than twice that of Canada. Thus, this evidence contradicts his claim that higher rates of mental illness reflect a decline in religion. I don't recall DOC rebutting my argument.

BTW, the last time I checked, sin involved a deliberate, free-will, choice to commit an unethical act or, in the view of Jesus, even to indulge unethical thoughts. I don't know of anyone who deliberately chooses to worry. Therefore, worrying cannot be a sin. QED.

 

[Kopji]

Why because they are in agreement?
All religions have some of the truth, but not all the truth.
Jesus said worry is from the devil/evil side of principalities.
Let Jesus guide you and place it in his hands, not in the world.
Worry means lack of faith in God and Jesus.
We all still will worry though, to a point.

Hi edge,
'not worry' was said a long time before Christianity by many people, religious and not. It is begging the question to assert a special authority or revelation of Christianity, when in actuality it added it's voice to a long list. The Bible says plenty of things I agree with, but that does not elevate it over many other fine books written throughout history.

The point of the thread implies that religion has a monopoly or advantage on wisdom about mental health... or fosters mental health, or cures bad mental health... perhaps religion stays up late eradicating mental illness from the world while we sleep... holy elves pound away unseen at making shoes that provide mental health if we would only wear them. But my earlier post showed that this was not the case, and that in a survey from a site that actually, is fairly apologetic of religious values - mental illness issues were mostly invisible to religion.

If there is any relationship, and I have not really been convinced here yet that there is, it might be as likely that prevalence of religion suppresses reports of mental illness. Religion can be rather frightening to people who in some countries are subject to torturous and violent rites by well meaning practitioners.

Or perhaps we have defined mental illness in a way that biases us toward religious solutions. 'Sanity' is best expressed by belief in a supernatural deity that punishes the wicked and rewards the good and just. We might be poor, hungry, and unjustly treated - but that will all get better in a life beyond this one, God is in his heaven, if we will only accept our given lot in this life and be happy.

What oppressive business, government, or authority would not want to promote such a view as sanity?

 

[joobz]

Well it seems obvious that the conclusion of this evidence is:
1. there is insufficient evidence to claim that there is an increase in mental health diseases in the EU.
2. There is insufficient evidence to claim that the EU has a higher % of mental health diseases than the US or other nations.
3. there is no logical mechanism to suggest that the number of diverse mental health diseases are a result of religiosity.

 

[Edward Palamar]

Obedience to Christ brings Everlasting Peace!

Unless being told not to worry causes further worry, in which case issuing that order causes people to disobey it, in which case there is a direct relation between mental problems and this one religion of many religions.

That is a contorted "unless" lacking any logic. The use of imperative as applied from any x to any y will result in a success rate of 0% to 100% everytime. It is on this simple basis whether sanity is maintained with respect to Christ.

There is only one God, Faith, and Religion.

 

[Edward Palamar]

Faith is an eternal necessity.

It's all very well for you as the resurrected and prophesied Peter the Roman not to worry, but the rest of us are not so fortunate.

I am not slighted. Faith works the same either before and/or after Resurrection. Christ showed us this when He allowed Thomas to doubt and test saying, "Blessed are they who have not seen, yet believe."

 

[Edward Palamar]

Think Jesus!

"From the passions arise worry, and from worry arises fear. Away with the passions, and no fear, no worry." The Buddha, Sutra 42

Long before Christianity came on the scene there was much wisdom written about worry, and much of it was from secular sources. So this makes your argument about it being original to Christianity rather specious.

The writings, as was all else, were from Christ's Father.

Worry is disordered passion of the mind.

 

[Edward Palamar]

God is One, yet Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!

"The one religion"? Which one would that be? And what would you expect to see in non-Christian, but religious, countries for mental health levels?

In the best of sanity, it cannot be denied that there is only one God, one Faith, and one Religion. Think about it. Quoting a fluctuating source (as wiki is) only indicates that the variance is currently in favor of fragmented rather than wholistic thinking.

 

[Edward Palamar]

God - commandment - religion

If this is the case, then religion causes mental illness. Without the religion, the "commandment" would not matter.

Disobedience to Christ causes mental illness as well as similar problems. Christ has assured us that any sin committed against Him will be forgiven, but He did not say that if we choose to disobey Him, there would not be consequences.

The same was true even before Christ received the power and religion was still dependent upon the same one God.

 

[Craig B]

I am not slighted. Faith works the same either before and/or after Resurrection. Christ showed us this when He allowed Thomas to doubt and test saying, "Blessed are they who have not seen, yet believe."

Thomas (allegedly - the incident is known only to the flagrantly unhistorical John) DID "see". If Jesus wants me to believe, he should allow me to test too. He must not say, I have permitted other people to test and they believed, but you will be all the more blessed if you don't test, and still believe.

That's nuts. No deal, Jesus.

 

[dafydd]

Disobedience to Christ causes mental illness as well as similar problems. Christ has assured us that any sin committed against Him will be forgiven, but He did not say that if we choose to disobey Him, there would not be consequences.

The same was true even before Christ received the power and religion was still dependent upon the same one God.

Nonsense. I have known believers who were as mad as hatters. I have come across quite few here too.

 

[Craig4]

At this point in time, worry can be seen coming from being disobedient to Christ, Who has directly given us a command not to worry. The more that the commandment not to worry is disobeyed, the more mental illness.

It is easily seen then, that there is a direct relation to secularism (as an opposition to the one religion) and the rise of mental problems.

That one is going to require some footnotes. Where's the data on this relationship?

 

[Mashuna]

At this point in time, worry can be seen coming from being disobedient to Christ, Who has directly given us a command not to worry. The more that the commandment not to worry is disobeyed, the more mental illness.

It is easily seen then, that there is a direct relation to secularism (as an opposition to the one religion) and the rise of mental problems.

I think you've confused Christ with Bobby McFerrin there.

 

[joobz]

Disobedience to Christ causes mental illness as well as similar problems. Christ has assured us that any sin committed against Him will be forgiven, but He did not say that if we choose to disobey Him, there would not be consequences.

The same was true even before Christ received the power and religion was still dependent upon the same one God.

This claim has the logical result that 4.0-5billion people in the world are mentally ill.

Since we know this not to be true by the study performed, your claim is blatantly false.

 

[Mojo]

Disobedience to Christ causes mental illness as well as similar problems.

[citation needed]

 

[Edward Palamar]

You have been given eternal life through Christ Jesus.

If Jesus wants me to believe, he should allow me to test too.

He does allow you to test, too, through St. Thomas. How long do you need to hold your hand over the fire to know that it is hot?

 

[Akhenaten]

There is only one God, Faith, and Religion.

Well that's wrong.

 

[Akhenaten]

In the best of sanity, it cannot be denied that there is only one God, one Faith, and one Religion.

Yes it can.

Think about it.

I have. You're wrong.

Quoting a fluctuating source (as wiki is) only indicates that the variance is currently in favor of fragmented rather than wholistic thinking.

Can you break that down for me?

 

[Craig B]

He does allow you to test, too, through St. Thomas. How long do you need to hold your hand over the fire to know that it is hot?

Well, he can send Thomas to hell for me and let him find out how hot it is, in my place. But I think you misunderstand what is meant by "test". You test for yourself, not "through" other people. For in that case I would need to believe anything other people had "tested". Like shamans experiencing the spirit world, and stuff. They tested it for me. Must be true!

 

[joobz]

He does allow you to test, too, through St. Thomas.

that's not a test, that's a story.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I am not slighted. Faith works the same either before and/or after Resurrection. Christ showed us this when He allowed Thomas to doubt and test saying, "Blessed are they who have not seen, yet believe."

If I was writing a work of fiction and I wanted to convince people to believe something that I had no evidence of, I might also work in a bit of praise for those who accept things without reason.