Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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In my short time taking an interest in this case, I've been quite impressed by the depth of knowledge on those on the innocence side, and a bit shocked by some of the ignorance on the guilter side.

Rolfe.
 
In my short time taking an interest in this case, I've been quite impressed by the depth of knowledge on those on the innocence side, and a bit shocked by some of the ignorance on the guilter side.

Rolfe.

If it makes you feel any better, the guilter group is very small, and shrinking all the time.
 
Another look at stinky Amanda at the cottage on the afternoon of November 2nd, 2007, shortly after the murder was discovered.

Barbie: "Amanda was crumpled. Her hair was messy...She smelled like sex....Her face was puffy, with makeup smeared under her eyes." (Angle Face: The True Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox, pages 55, 56.)

http://www.corriere.it/Fotogallery/Tagliate/2007/11_Novembre/06/PERU/6.JPG
Did Amanda ever explain why some of her hairs were out of place?

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Do not hotlink to images.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis
 
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Another look at stinky Amanda at the cottage on the afternoon of November 2nd, 2007, shortly after the murder was discovered.

Barbie: "Amanda was crumpled. Her hair was messy...She smelled like sex....Her face was puffy, with makeup smeared under her eyes." (Angle Face: The True Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox, pages 55, 56.)

[qimg]http://www.corriere.it/Fotogallery/Tagliate/2007/11_Novembre/06/PERU/6.JPG[/qimg]
Did Amanda ever explain why those hairs were out of place?

///

:boggled:

A rational person would expect that a young woman who just found out her roommate had been murdered might have a few hairs out of place, smears in her makeup, or a puffy face. A clueless bitch like Barbie would see these imperfections as evidence of guilt.
 
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Another pathetic exercise in pedantry.

Just so you know - Russell's Teapot refers to unfalsifiable claims. Which differs from your contrary assertion how, exactly?


Hi Fuji, you recently wrote this: "This is an obviously photoshopped image. Look at the dark shadow along the entirety of the pictures of Shay and Fischer - there is no way that that image was produced by an individual actually standing in front of these two people using a camera with a flash, which is what is presumably intended to be perceived by the audience. Pay particular note to the dark patches to the immediate left of Fischer's head and to his lower right. How the hell is a flash camera, from a straight-on angle, simultaneously not going to illuminate these fields on the wall ostensibly behind the pair? Also note that the background is, in general, quite well illuminated in respect to the foreground. This looks like some crappy failed entry in SomethingAwful's"


This is a perfect example of what goes on at PMF. The truth is of little importance. Like Peggy Ganong likes to say, just post is up and see what the reaction is. Why on earth would I photoshop a picture with Steve Shay? Please tell me what the benefit would be? I am not angry about your accusation, I find it hilarious.

The truth is that my wife took the photo that you claim is photoshopped but only after my daughter tried out Shay's camera. Problem was, when she took the photo we were photo bombed by a wise guy!

8qk5X.jpg
 
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Bruce, if it's not off-topic, why are we supposed to care how you spell your surname? To the point where certain people waste even more electrons by typing "Fisher/Fischer" every time?

It's about as sensible as perpetually typing Dr Stefanoni - a waste of electrons, but done to try to make a point, in that case to pretend that the lady isn't just a technician (which she is), but has a post-graduate degree (which she hasn't).

Rolfe.
 
Bruce, if it's not off-topic, why are we supposed to care how you spell your surname? To the point where certain people waste even more electrons by typing "Fisher/Fischer" every time?

It's about as sensible as perpetually typing Dr Stefanoni - a waste of electrons, but done to try to make a point, in that case to pretend that the lady isn't just a technician (which she is), but has a post-graduate degree (which she hasn't).

Rolfe.

There is a strange Bruce Fisher obsession at PMF that is really unexplainable. I thought their site was supposed to be dedicated to Meredith Kercher. Peggy did say that creative avatars are a good way to preserve the memory of Meredith.

Ask PMF what they have done for Meredith. Where is one memorial, one college fund, one charity for victims of assault in Meredith's name? Anything at all? Nope. All they have done to preserve Meredith's memory is create some avatars mocking others. Great job Peggy!
 
Another look at stinky Amanda at the cottage on the afternoon of November 2nd, 2007, shortly after the murder was discovered.

Barbie: "Amanda was crumpled. Her hair was messy...She smelled like sex....Her face was puffy, with makeup smeared under her eyes." (Angle Face: The True Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox, pages 55, 56.)

[qimg]http://www.corriere.it/Fotogallery/Tagliate/2007/11_Novembre/06/PERU/6.JPG[/qimg]
Did Amanda ever explain why some of her hairs were out of place?

///

I know blow-dried hair when I see it. She is wearing no make-up. She does look like she didn't get much sleep the night before, but not from committing murder.
 
I know blow-dried hair when I see it. She is wearing no make-up. She does look like she didn't get much sleep the night before, but not from committing murder.

I think she looks like she is in shock and very sad. I don't see anyway to conclude whether or not she got enough sleep. I understand your comment, I just see a lot of emotion in the photo. Something that she was accused of not having.
 
I have thought it through, indeed. Which is why I understand the miserable parade of jailhouse losers the defense presented to the court earlier this summer. The Italian Supreme Court has already determined that more than one attacker was involved; the best the defense can do at this point is to suggest other unknown parties as Guede's partners in crime, when reasonable observers will already tend to conclude that Knox and Sollecito are the other parties.

For the zillionth time: The Italian Supreme Court does not rule on the facts of a case. It only rules on the law -- that is to say, whether the verdicts of the lower courts were legally reached. (It is possible for a court to follow all procedures correctly and still arrive at an erroneous verdict; in that case, the Supreme Court is powerless to do anything about it!)

But even if it did rule on the facts, your position would still be absurd to the point of risibility. Do you actually realize what it is that you're saying? If the legal system worked like you are suggesting it does, there would be no point in Knox and Sollecito having their own trial! Guede's trial (*) would have served as the trial for Knox and Sollecito, if (as you believe) it were capable of ruling in a binding way on facts relevant to Knox and Sollecito's guilt. And if Guede's trial had served as the trial for Knox and Sollecito, then Knox and Sollecito would have been tried without their having legal representation or any opportunity to present their own side!

The Italian Supreme Court has yet to rule on Knox and Sollecito's case. Hellmann's court is not in any sense bound by any factual ruling made by any court during the prosecution of anyone other than Knox and Sollecito -- any more than Massei's court was bound by the findings of the appeals court (a higher-level court!) in Guede's case. (Did you consider that?)

Also: except in the case of Aviello, the "parade of jailhouse" losers had nothing to do with establishing the guilt of anyone other than Rudy Guede. Most of them were there simply to report on the fact that they heard Guede say Knox and Sollecito were innocent. That's it.

I generally try not to get this heated, but the following must be said: your stated position displays not only ignorance of the case details and of legal principles, but a profound lack of common sense.


(*)Note that, consistent with the way the Italian system works, I am using "trial" here to refer to any and all of the three stages: first instance, second instance ("appeal"), and Cassazione ("Supreme Court").
 
Supremes TOD...10:30 Massei TOD...11:40 Actual TOD 9:20 We appear to have a problem on the issue of TOD. So Fuji...according to your theory the TOD is pinned down at 10:30 then? It certainly has to be if we consider the same theory in relation to the number of attackers...(come on really...one guy tramping thru the blood and the other two ...what? ...floating?)

See, I have this shower...its a beautiful shower that happens to be located in the basement of my house. I also have an upstairs bathtub/shower combo that is essentially off limits to me ...only girls allowed it seems (because I disturb the fung shuay or maybe its the makeup I might move). In the winter I keep the basement temperature at 60 degrees...sorry we don’t have the C yet rather the F but 60 is cool. My bathroom downstairs is smallish maybe 200 sq ft. Here’s how I handle that...I enter, close the door, then turn on the hot shower to full hot. As I undress the steam fills the room and heats it almost instantly...I readjust the shower to a normal temperature and take a nice warm shower...when I finish I step out into now fairly hot room. I towel off and dress in the adjacent room which is an unused downstairs bedroom.

Now that got me to thinking about how I might as well place a bid on that hot yoga mat...yes...it gets that hot...

Sorry...that long example only exposes your Red Herring. Now lets add the fact the modern heating (the cottage looks fairly updated to me) comes with these things called thermostats. Usually they have a minimum (ours for example can not be lowered below 55 degrees F) and a maximum which is irrelevant for this story. Cold November air drafting onto these thermostats would cause the heating to come on in an effort to overcome this drafty condition...even if a door is wide open I doubt the temp would drop much below 60 degrees and soon after closing the door the temp would quickly recover as the heating equipment is all hot and stuff.

Come to think of it that cold November air gives me a bad hair day almost every single time I am forced out into it for any length of time. Its the fate of us fine haired persons...could AK have this fine hair?
Could the sex smell be from Domenico Giacinto Profazios salami sandwich breath perhaps? (I mean look at the guy I can almost smell him thru the pics…he oozes Asiaggo cheese which seems more like feet than sex but I digress)

I appreciate that you come here to argue as well Fuji. I don’t really understand the vexation at any comment about the crime though. In fact unless you take up the argument with PG, PQ about the very same level of colorful metaphor then I don’t think you have a right to complain about it here. And you know you wont do it there because then you would be banned from there...

It was a brutal sex murder. Every indication shows that Rudy Guede was interrupted during a burglary and he made a deviant choice to rape and kill rather than simply run away. We all know those facts. They are beyond all doubt...that motivation matches, that story matches, the clues match, the behavior after matches, SODI (some other guy did it) matches. Any other story leaves only doubt and mismatched nonsensical confusion. Far far beyond reasonable.

I wonder how long Patrick Lumumba can live off the settlement he got from Italy plus the 70,000 Euros he got from the DM? This poor man accused by a 20 year old girl...or was it the police? Did the 20 year old girl keep his bar closed after he was cleared in just two weeks (what took that long?)? Or did the police show him what happens to someone who doesn’t play their cards "right"? Perhaps these police have dealt with the mafia so long now that they can no longer distinguish between right and wrong. Perhaps they learn to operate with the same efficient methods...perhaps they even feel justified to do it…perhaps indeed.
 
More on the hair thing:

Amanda's hair...Lots of them. Yet, there's no Amanda's hairs in the room that Meredith got killed.

I also remember a picture of Amanda and Raffaele comforting each other after the murder was discovered, where we can see Raffaele's back and we can see few of his hairs on his sweater. Yet, there's no Raffaele's hairs in the room that Meredith got killed.
 
So you think that an acquittal isn't going to be spun as "the evil bitch and her pup got away with it"?

Rolfe.

That would (it's to be hoped) present the author with legal problems. Publishing a book isn't the same as posting a comment on a news article.

Apart from that, you can't really publish a book on a story like this without quite a lot in the way of details, and it's been obvious for some time that the details to back up that spin are less and less believable.
 
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That would (it's to be hoped) present the author with legal problems. Publishing a book isn't the same as posting a comment on a news article.

Apart from that, you can't really publish a book on a story like this without quite a lot in the way of details, and it's been obvious for some time that the details to back up that spin are less and less believable.


Oh I think you'll find that anyone posting a comment on a news article or a post on an online forum is exactly as legally liable as someone publishing a book. I look forward to anyone posting following the acquittals that Knox (or Sollecito) is a "vicious sex murderer who go away with it" (or similar) anywhere on the internet being pursued, identified and sued for libel.
 
Hi Fuji, you recently wrote this: "This is an obviously photoshopped image. Look at the dark shadow along the entirety of the pictures of Shay and Fischer - there is no way that that image was produced by an individual actually standing in front of these two people using a camera with a flash, which is what is presumably intended to be perceived by the audience. Pay particular note to the dark patches to the immediate left of Fischer's head and to his lower right. How the hell is a flash camera, from a straight-on angle, simultaneously not going to illuminate these fields on the wall ostensibly behind the pair? Also note that the background is, in general, quite well illuminated in respect to the foreground. This looks like some crappy failed entry in SomethingAwful's"


This is a perfect example of what goes on at PMF. The truth is of little importance. Like Peggy Ganong likes to say, just post is up and see what the reaction is. Why on earth would I photoshop a picture with Steve Shay? Please tell me what the benefit would be? I am not angry about your accusation, I find it hilarious.

The truth is that my wife took the photo that you claim is photoshopped but only after my daughter tried out Shay's camera. Problem was, when she took the photo we were photo bombed by a wise guy!

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/8qk5X.jpg[/qimg]


And quite apart from Fuji's ridiculous claim of you photoshopping this picture (which, as you say, makes no sense whatsoever when you stop to think about it for more than a nanosecond), Fuji chooses to end the post with an extremely unpleasant insulting expletive aimed at you. I have to say in total honesty that I was shocked that someone who had been seemingly debating here in good faith could simultaneously throw around such a deeply unpleasant insult on another forum. So I'm done with Fuji: (s)he's really showed his/her true colours with this single word. What a shame.
 
Stilicho very curiously pulled out a post of mine from December 2010 (some two threads and thousands of posts before now!) which was correcting capealadin, seemingly simply because I ended it with a smiley face. First out, I'm genuinely bemused as to how this post came into Stilicho's purview. Could it be that he decided that he was going to try to categorise me as someone who believes the case is nothing more than a "big joke" (I don't), and then conducted a search on JREF to find a post made by me that also included a smiley icon which he could use to illustrate his point? If so (and I imagine that is what actually took place here), then he can congratulate himself on only having to go back nine months and probably some 2,000 posts of mine to find one that met his exacting criteria :)

And the smiley icon in that post was, in any case, nothing to do with my impresion of the gravity of the murder. If you read the post in context, capealadin had also just asked (quite assertively) how I knew Guede was lying about the amount of blood. So that part of my response was to indicate that since there's zero evidence of a clean-up in the areas that Guede mentioned as having been covered in "all that blood", it's therefore reasonable to assume that Guede was lying.

Lastly, Stilicho appears unable to differentiate between Guede's (and Massei's) implication of a widescale delayed crime-scene clean-up by Knox and Sollecito on the one hand, and Guede's immediate attempts to clean himself up after the murder on the other hand. There was absolutely no evidence that anybody even attempted to do anything like wipe down floors or surfaces after the murder (and in this respect we can safely discount Massei's ludicrously illogical "deduction" regarding the bathmat print: that there must have been other bloody prints between the bedroom and the bathroom, and that therefore the absence of such prints proves there was a clean-up). Conversely, there's every indication that Guede went to the small bathroom in the minutes after he killed Meredith, in order to wash his hands and arms and to try to remove bloodstains on his trousers (Guede even admits to this!). There was no need for Guede to "raise his trousers to the door frame" - has Stilicho not seen the helpful photo that shows the true position of that blood drip at around knee level? And the blood on the bathroom door frame was not diluted. Apart from that.........
 
<snip)could the sex smell be from domenico giacinto profazios salami sandwich breath perhaps? (i mean look at the guy i can almost smell him thru the pics…he oozes asiaggo cheese which seems more like feet than sex but i digress)<snip>

:D:D:D
 
Oh I think you'll find that anyone posting a comment on a news article or a post on an online forum is exactly as legally liable as someone publishing a book. I look forward to anyone posting following the acquittals that Knox (or Sollecito) is a "vicious sex murderer who go away with it" (or similar) anywhere on the internet being pursued, identified and sued for libel.

I would be disappointed if that wasn't true, legally. But the practicalities of pursuing an anonymous internet poster are not the same as taking action against the author of a book.

Incidentally (assuming the Hellmann court makes the rational decision), will there be a way that people like us can draw the attention of the Knox/Sollecito lawyers to libellous comments appearing in print or on-screen?
 
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Another look at stinky Amanda at the cottage on the afternoon of November 2nd, 2007, shortly after the murder was discovered.

Barbie: "Amanda was crumpled. Her hair was messy...She smelled like sex....Her face was puffy, with makeup smeared under her eyes." (Angle Face: The True Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox, pages 55, 56.)

[qimg]http://www.corriere.it/Fotogallery/Tagliate/2007/11_Novembre/06/PERU/6.JPG[/qimg]
Did Amanda ever explain why some of her hairs were out of place?

///

Here <Dr. Stefanoni explains what less than 10 picograms of hairspray will do for you.

http://www.milestonemedia.it/editorial/photos/show/MILESTONE-ED-00ZUGK

This one reveals what happens when she gets up on the wrong side of the bed.

http://www.milestonemedia.it/editorial/photos/show/MILESTONE-ED-00ZTUK

Some windblown pics are more flattering than others:
 

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