Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Kaosium said:
Incidentally, I'll lay odds of 3:1 on Amanda and Raffaele being acquitted of murder for as much as you like, payable to JREF. :)
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Book closed well over a month ago, with the appeal process still looming.

Sorry you were late to the game.

Thanks for your insights, and PoV. :cool:

DR
 
Hi Darth Rotor,
Just curious what do you think the results of the appeal will be. And also what odds.
Personally, I think we should take a poll of all posters.
Thanks in advance.
 
Peggy claims in her blog that she watched the "entire" crime scene video. I would be very interested to know where she obtained a copy of that video. It would be extremely disrespectful to Meredith Kercher and her family to be passing that video around to a hate site.

Charlie Wilkes and Oggi both provided the video with Meredith's body edited out. There is absolutely no reason why Peggy Ganong should have the entire video. I hope she is referring to the edited version.
 
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Fine said:
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Komponisto,

It's hard to believe but Skeptical Bystander posted this comment on her PMF site an hour ago...............

"You are welcome to read here and also to post here, but there is a certain flow to the conversation and I expect people who post here to respect it. We also expect a certain degree of precision and sourcing, especially from people who say they have just begun to follow the case. Your comment about maybe seeing a video that showed a bra clasp being passed around falls into the category of vague and unhelpful. You need to provide a source for that. Is it from the video of the crime scene processing that was provided by the police? I ask because I have seen the entire video and I don't recall that scene."

She don't recall that scene! Has she seen that video yet???????????????

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Wow, that one's a keeper, Fine. No wonder they have such an uninformed view of the case -- they just don't bother to look at half of the information that is available.
 
Poppy1016 said:
Hi Bruce,
I often wonder what will become of these lost souls after AK and RS are acquitted. All that time wasted and all that hatred all for nothing.
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Believe me, the weirdos from the stupid site are psychotic enough to convince themselves that Amanda might still be sent back to Italy if the case is appealed by the prosecution to the Supreme Court of Italy. Some of them will still be rambling on a year from now. Most will get bored though.

As I've mentioned before, the moderator of the stupid site actually said even if Amanda Knox is acquitted that she's not leaving Italy anytime soon because of "Calumnia" charges by the police (I love repeating this):

4dVvL.png
 
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HumanityBlues said:
I think he's saying the time to make the bet has passed.
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I got that, but I also had the impression that (like a number of media outlets) he thought the appeal had just started (because of all the news about the C-V report), and that the bet was made before.
 
komponisto said:
I got that, but I also had the impression that (like a number of media outlets) he thought the appeal had just started (because of all the news about the C-V report), and that the bet was made before.
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Hmmm, I think you might be right. Looks like Rotor might have taken a pretty blind bet there.
 
HumanityBlues said:
Believe me, the weirdos from the stupid site are psychotic enough to convince themselves that Amanda might still be sent back to Italy if the case is appealed by the prosecution to the Supreme Court of Italy. Some of them will still be rambling on a year from now. Most will get bored though.

As I've mentioned before, the moderator of the stupid site actually said even if Amanda Knox is acquitted that she's not leaving Italy anytime soon because of "Calumnia" charges by the police (I love repeating this):

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/4dVvL.png[/qimg]
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More than that, they also -- or some of them -- think that even if Amanda and Raffaele are acquitted by the Hellmann court, they will still be kept in jail pending the prosecution's appeal to the Cassazione.
 
komponisto said:
More than that, they also -- or some of them -- think that even if Amanda and Raffaele are acquitted by the Hellmann court, they will still be kept in jail pending the prosecution's appeal to the Cassazione.
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Yes, it's incredibly funny and ridiculous. I always love to repeat these claims from the stupid site because so many long time JREFers seem to have found a happy home there (even with the occasional drive bys here).

This is easy non debatable stuff we're talking about here.
 
HumanityBlues said:
Believe me, the weirdos from the stupid site are psychotic enough to convince themselves that Amanda might still be sent back to Italy if the case is appealed by the prosecution to the Supreme Court of Italy. Some of them will still be rambling on a year from now. Most will get bored though.
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I think there is virtually no chance this will get appealed by the prosecution to the Supreme Court. The actual lead prosecutor, Costagliola does not appear to be invested in this case. I am not entirely certain he actually exists, as I have heard absolutely nothing about him in court or in the press and I'm kind of a skeptic!

HumanityBlues said:
As I've mentioned before, the moderator of the stupid site actually said even if Amanda Knox is acquitted that she's not leaving Italy anytime soon because of "Calumnia" charges by the police (I love repeating this):
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Frankly I hope she fights that charge tooth and nail, and if it involves staying in Italy longer so she's not found guilty in absentia then so be it. She won't be headed back to prison over it in any event, and I'd kinda like to see 'justice done though the heavens fall' and those who thought to not only put her through that interrogation, but then lie about it, and to add insult to injury charge her and her parents with calunnia for telling and repeating the truth punished for their perfidy. They are lying, they are guilty! :p

I have noticed they keep saying 'home by Christmas' and 'home by Thanksgiving' even at this late date. Hell, she might actually want a chance to see a little more of Italy, that probably had something to do with why she chose to study there.
 
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Kaosium said:
I think there is virtually no chance this will get appealed by the prosecution to the Supreme Court. The actual lead prosecutor, Costagliola does not appear to be invested in this case. I am not entirely certain he actually exists, as I have heard absolutely nothing about him in court or in the press and I'm kind of a skeptic!



Frankly I hope she fights that charge tooth and nail, and if it involves staying in Italy longer so she's not found guilty in absentia then so be it. She won't be headed back to prison over it in any event, and I'd kinda like to see 'justice done though the heavens fall' and those who thought to not only put her through that interrogation, but then lie about it, and to add insult to injury charge her and her parents with calunnia for telling and repeating the truth punished for their perfidy. They are lying, they are guilty! :p

I have noticed they keep saying 'home by Christmas' and 'home by Thanksgiving' even at this late date. Hell, she might actually want a chance to see a little more of Italy, that probably had something to do with why she chose to study there.
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Ha. Here's another fact. When she's acquitted, she's gonna get the **** out of Italy very quickly.
 
HumanityBlues said:
Ha. Here's another fact. When she's acquitted, she's gonna get the **** out of Italy very quickly.
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Could be, I hope she doesn't lose the big calunnia charge over it though.

Just thought of something, if she's acquitted on the murder, they can still find her guilty of the little calunnia charge, can't they? That might just determine how the other ones go, thus you might be right. However I'd say the Italian State owes her like it pays all the other poor shmucks who get lost in that byzantine system. I've heard 500k Euros bandied about. I'd hate to see that money in the hands of those damned interrogators as a result of the civil portion of the calunnia charge.

She might come back, too, if the first thing she wants to do is see her home after all these years.
 
PhantomWolf said:
In the end to me this is the only thing that makes any sense about that night. The cops story of that night just doesn't add up. There is no way you bring in 12 officers for a nice little discussion at 10pm at night, and you certainly don't rush off and arrest someone on the basis of what Amanda said, not unless you think you have evidence that backs up her statements enough to put before a judge. Their own actions make it quite clear that they *knew* they had the evidence they needed to arrest at least Amanda and Patrick even without her statement. But by getting her to break and tell them what they wanted to hear, they then had their confirmation and acted on it. Nothing else makes the least bit of sense.
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It's amazing they got anyone to believe it, perhaps that was in part what kicked off the defamation firestorm. They thought they had a 'confession' and it would be 'easy,' as you note it would just seem so obvious to them, they just wouldn't let up easily, as they 'knew' what happened--they just needed confirmation.

Here's the thing, imagine they don't make the CCTV discrepancy error, they can still lie to Amanda about 'hard evidence,' as that is an interrogation tactic, but where does the idea that Raffaele called the Carabinieri after the Postal Police arrive come from? Not Raffaele in my view, because he didn't. Stoned and frustrated, not realizing the gravity of the situation I could see him just going 'whatever dude,' but I can't see him volunteering something without coercion that didn't happen and doesn't make a lick of sense.

It also doesn't make much sense for the cops to insist on it if they didn't have good reason to believe it happened. With the break-in they're going to have to go with a 'staged' crime scene anyway, and that would have already been 'done.' Why would Raffaele want to call more police to the scene? More nasty suspicious minds poring over the crime scene, more eyeballs looking them over at what might be the most crucial and harrowing moments. They might think perhaps because his sister isCarabinieri she might have suggested someone she knew ignorant of what he'd 'done' but at the same time ought to have told him the jurisdiction procedures--it wouldn't matter in the long run. Postal Police are Polizia di Stato, they'd be taking over because of the rules if they were already there, calling the Carabinieri in hopes of getting a sympathetic officer wouldn't have worked.

I don't see them considering this likelihood no matter how paranoid and incompetent they are without a damn good reason to think so, and one of those exists--the error that is known they're going to announce to the press about a week after the arrests anyway. They might have not introduced it before Matteini because she's a buddy of Mignini anyway and they didn't need to, plus if they presented it then the defense might get a chance to see it was hardly 'clear cut.' They'd hold that damn video over Amanda's head for months, probably hoping for a confession.
 
Fine said:
Komponisto,


It's hard to believe but Skeptical Bystander posted this comment on her PMF site an hour ago...............

"You are welcome to read here and also to post here, but there is a certain flow to the conversation and I expect people who post here to respect it. We also expect a certain degree of precision and sourcing, especially from people who say they have just begun to follow the case. Your comment about maybe seeing a video that showed a bra clasp being passed around falls into the category of vague and unhelpful. You need to provide a source for that. Is it from the video of the crime scene processing that was provided by the police? I ask because I have seen the entire video and I don't recall that scene."

She don't recall that scene! Has she seen that video yet???????????????
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The hatred and stupidity over there is just incredible. A new poster "lookin4facts" was greeted as a troll and yawned at, asked for references, and so on. In response to the question about the video and the clasp, several posters there claimed never to have seen the clasp video, and not one admitted to having seen it. Oh come on! Do we need any more evidence about these people's motives? Do they not realize that they actually turn every independent reader to side of innocence by their antics?
 
AmyStrange said:
so all those posters here who say they have good evidence against Rudy even if the C&V report is used to eliminate his DNA evidence, because the hand-print can be linked to him, are wrong? How can it be linked? The same way the bath mat can be linked to Raffaele? Without swirls and arches to compare, I don't see how. Educate me on this. I really am curious and not ridiculing you (or anyone else) in any way.

As I'm sure you're aware, they can now use vaporized superglue to bring out latents from surfaces that were at one time impossible to get prints from,
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No, I'm not at all sure about this. I'm really producing a classic "argument from incredulity". I note we have pictures of the bathmat print to form our own opinions about, but I've never seen a picture of the bloody handprint. I'd be quite interested to see visual proof that the surface of a pillowcase would yield a readable fingerprint (or palm print) with enough whorl detail to get a genuine identification.

Of course it's possible that Rudy was identified from fingerprints lifted from elsewhere in the room, from a hard surface. I'd just be interested to know. In fact my fingerprint expertise is no more than I learned from following the Shirley McKie case.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
No, I'm not at all sure about this. I'm really producing a classic "argument from incredulity". I note we have pictures of the bathmat print to form our own opinions about, but I've never seen a picture of the bloody handprint. I'd be quite interested to see visual proof that the surface of a pillowcase would yield a readable fingerprint (or palm print) with enough whorl detail to get a genuine identification.

Of course it's possible that Rudy was identified from fingerprints lifted from elsewhere in the room, from a hard surface. I'd just be interested to know. In fact my fingerprint expertise is no more than I learned from following the Shirley McKie case.

Rolfe.
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I don't believe I have seen this either. I would like to see it as well.
 
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