Could the very high rate of mental illness in Europe be related to religion decline?

[Rincewind]

The very high rate of mental illness in Europe is related to the influx of reptilain aliens from the secret underwater base in the Bermuda Triangle. The construction of the underwater passageway linking England to France disrupted the harmonious resonance between the secret alien base with the mother ship. And this is why there are more mental ill people now than every before. I am just kidding. You would belive I was serious if I did not say so. How crazy is that?

And you had me believing you for a minute there...

How cruel to shatter my illusions!

So, if I may misquote you - 38% of Europeans are reptilian aliens?

 

[Rincewind]

Wouldn't it be nice to see DOC agree that s/he got the numbers wrong?

Still - I'm not holding my breath...

DOC - I'm sure everybody here is waiting for you to answer the important questions that many have raised - so, how about it?

Thanking you in anticipation...

 

[Bill Thompson]

And you had me believing you for a minute there...

How cruel to shatter my illusions!

So, if I may misquote you - 38% of Europeans are reptilian aliens?

It is exactly how it is done if you have been keeping up with the dialog here.

 

[Sawbones79]

The very high rate of mental illness in Europe is related to the influx of reptilain aliens from the secret underwater base in the Bermuda Triangle. The construction of the underwater passageway linking England to France disrupted the harmonious resonance between the secret alien base with the mother ship. And this is why there are more mental ill people now than every before. I am just kidding. You would belive I was serious if I did not say so. How crazy is that?

No, that doesn't explain it at all. Reptilian aliens show a vey low prevalence of mental illness in large surveys (they're really religious, see?), and so a large influx of them should actually increase the general mental health of the population.
As for the disharmonious resonance, I've found a simple home-made tinfoil hat to be more than adequate protection.

 

[DOC]

From your own source material:

"Mental illnesses including anxiety disorders and depression are common and under-treated in many developed and developing countries, with the highest rate found in the United States, according to a study of 14 countries."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5111202/

Actually you brought in a different link than the one I brought in in post # 1. Your link is from 2004 and the study is from 2001 - 2003. The link in post # 1 is from 2011. Also in your link it says the US has a rate of 26%. That is lower than the 38% for Europe (as a whole) in the link I brought in.

 

[Lamuella]

I was surprised to see just how high the figures for mental illness are in Europe.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44394646/#.Tma_hI672_I

I maintain that an increase in secularism and decrease in religiosity could be a major reason.

Have you considered the possibility that Europe has roughly the same levels of mental illness as the rest of the world, but because of having free at the point of delivery healthcare it's more likely that a European with a mental health issue will be diagnosed than a South American with a similar condition?

You could also look at this from a heirarchy of needs point of view. If your main healthcare concern is starvation or cholera, social anxiety is going to take a back burner.

 

[Sawbones79]

Have you considered the possibility that Europe has roughly the same levels of mental illness as the rest of the world, but because of having free at the point of delivery healthcare it's more likely that a European with a mental health issue will be diagnosed than a South American with a similar condition?

You could also look at this from a heirarchy of needs point of view. If your main healthcare concern is starvation or cholera, social anxiety is going to take a back burner.

And there you have it. And as noted above, anxiety and depression tend to be within the area of expertise of the clergy in highly religious areas, meaning that such issues go unreported in health care statistics.

 

[Lamuella]

another thing to add:

They're including dementia in this survey. Dementia is overwhelmingly found in elderly patients, and can often considered to be an inevitable side effect of ageing. As countries in Europe tend to have high life expectancies (the western european country with the lowest life expectancy had a higher life expectancy than the USA), a lot more Europeans live to an age where dementia presents itself.

 

[Lamuella]

And there you have it. And as noted above, anxiety and depression tend to be within the area of expertise of the clergy in highly religious areas, meaning that such issues go unreported in health care statistics.

Plus, countries in the developed world in general have gone through a very lengthy process of breaking down stigma relating to mental health. It's much more likely than it used to be that someone in England (for example) would admit that they have a mental health issue, or seek treatment for it.

 

[Mojo]

Also in your link it says the US has a rate of 26%. That is lower than the 38% for Europe (as a whole) in the link I brought in.

Yes, but the two links are using different criteria for identifying mental illness, so can't be used as a comparison. The one that uses the same criteria for USA and European countries, and can therefore be used to compare the rates, found that the rate is higher in the USA.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Nice graph here with the countries using comparable measures of mental illness:

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence/mental-health

 

[welshdean]

I thought I'd have a look around to see if I could find anything on the subject and came across this:

Two news stories over the long holiday weekend made the rounds about the prevalence of mental disorders in Americans and Europeans. Virtually all the news stories I’ve read completely missed important information contained within the actual reports, instead doing more reporting on the news release rather than the research itself.

The article goes on to state;

The European study was based upon actual research and suggested that today, up to 38 percent of Europeans may be suffering from a mental disorder — a seeming 50 percent increase over Americans. The two datasets are not directly comparable, however, since they used different methodology to arrive at their numbers.
But it appears only a few reporters bothered to read the study before reporting on it, because many simply reported on the European study with little context or understanding of its data.

Which strikes me as a little bizarre, I mean come on, who on earth would run about the place shouting about Europeans being bat-guano crazy 'cause they've turned their back on god?
Especially if they didn't/couldn't understand the data.

When the relevant data-sets are compared the very opposite is proven to be the case:

In fact, the study demonstrated no such rise in mental disorders. For the disorders tracked in an earlier 2005 study by the same authors, prevalence rates decreased from 27.4 to 27.1 percent. The reason for the “38 percent” number is simply because the researchers decided to start tracking 14 additional diagnoses — including some big ones like ADHD, dementia and sleep problems (which accounted for 8.3 of the 11.1 percent difference).

How does that affect your OP stance DOC? Especially when you also consider that Euro mental health has improved alongside an increase in atheism/agnosticism?

In a nutshell, despite DOC's protestations to the contrary, we Europeans are of sound mind and this is reinforced by our rejection of his capricious and obdurate god thingy.

 

[welshdean]

Nice graph here with the countries using comparable measures of mental illness:

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence/mental-health

That can't be right, the graph clearly shows a correlation twixt income inequity and mental health problems. It is common knowledge that the poorer members of society have a stronger belief in god, are you suggesting that the higher religiosity = higher levels of crazy? Oh dear DOC, this thread's not turning out to good for you is it? Still, at least that trend isn't broken. I've never seen a thread of yours go the way of your OP.

 

[joobz]

Actually you brought in a different link than the one I brought in in post # 1. Your link is from 2004 and the study is from 2001 - 2003. The link in post # 1 is from 2011.

Yes. This is true.

Also in your link it says the US has a rate of 26%. That is lower than the 38% for Europe (as a whole) in the link I brought in.

And this is a very stupid comment. Especially considering that I have ALREADY explained that the 2011 study includes way more conditions than the other one.

 

[TimCallahan]

Actually you brought in a different link than the one I brought in in post # 1. Your link is from 2004 and the study is from 2001 - 2003. The link in post # 1 is from 2011. Also in your link it says the US has a rate of 26%. That is lower than the 38% for Europe (as a whole) in the link I brought in.

I went to the link and found the following listings of countries (or in the case of China, just the city of Beijing) concerning rates of mental illness by precentage of the population:

U.S 26.4
Ukraine 20.5
France 18.4
Columbia 17.8
Lebanon 16.4
Netherlands 14.9
Mexico 12.2
Belgium 12.0
Spain 9.2
Beijing, China 9.1
Germany 9.1
Japan 8.8
Italy 8.2
Nigeria 4.7

The average of the European nations listed was a bit under 13.2%, compared with the U.S. rate of 26.4%. There seems to be no correlation between degree of religious conviction and mental illness. Otherwise, one would have to explain why Columbia, which is much more religious than Germany has a mental illness rate of 17.8%, while Germany has a rate of 9.1%. Italy, on the other hand, has a rate of only 8.2%

Also, if religion is the deciding factor, perhaps the U.S.needs to emulate Japan's eclectic mix of Buddhism and Shinto worship. That might bring our rate of 26.4% down to Japan's low rate of 8.8%. On the other hand, were we all to convert to Roman Catholicism, we might get down to Italy's rate of 8.2%. Of course, I'm not serious about either of these propositions.

The degree of government, nanny-state, interference in people's lives would also seem to have no correlation to mental illness rates. Consider that France, with the high rate of 18.4% and Germany, with a rate of 9.1% - less than half that of France - are both welfare states.

Of course, mental illness rates aren't the only measure of quality of life. Consider, for example, whether you would rather live in the U.S., with its 26.4% mental illness rate or Nigeria with its 4.7% rate.

Finally, I might note that the site only dealt with certain disorders, specifically: anxiety, mood disorders (depression, etc.), impulse control problems (compulsive gambling, etc.) and substance abuse / dependency.

Had the study included the U.K., Eire and the Russian Republic, there probably would have been greater rates of alcoholism for the European nations, just as there would be greater rates or seasonal affective disorder had the Scandinavian countries been brought in.

Had dementias, such as Alzheimer's, been measured, higher rates would be found among developed countries across the board, since more people in those countries live to be old enough to suffer such disorders.

I submit to you, DOC, that mental illness rates vary from country to country based on an eclectic mix of geographical factors - alcoholism and seasonal affective disorder being higher in northern countries, situational problems - the study noted the stress of westernization and rampant unemployment in Ukrainia, an cultural factors: The conflicts between Christians, Muslims and Druze in Lebanon probably add to the mental illness rate in Lebanon.

 

[TimCallahan]

I just went to another website, http://www.nmha.org/go/state-ranking, and found that for rates of chronic depression, state by state, the top ten were:

1. South Dakota
2. Hawaii
3. New Jersey
4. Iowa
5. Maryland
6. Minnesota
7. Louisiana
8. Illinois
9. North Dakota
10. Texas

Again, as in international statistics, there seems to be no discernible pattern here. To some degree, seasonal affective disorder might be the problem. But how would that account for Hawaii and Louisiana? If loss of religion is involved, why isn't irreligious California up there in the number 1 spot?

 

[George 152]

Could the very high rate of mental illness in Europe be related to religion decline?

Rather the other way about.....

 

[Hokulele]

I wonder if there's some way I can secure funding to go and live in Hawaii for a year to see if I get depressed.

I'm willing to make this sacrifice in the name of science.

Considering the state of the economy in Hawai'i, I am not at all surprised chronic depression is at an all time high. The loss of tourist income, as well as the construction crash, has been very hard on the state. That is the only reason we moved last year.


Of course, Hawai'i's economic issues must have been a "natural disaster" sent by some malicious god to punish them for actually having the lowest percentage of Christians of any of the US states and not, say, a result of horrendous lack of foresight in the US banking industry...

 

[DOC]

I went to the link and found the following listings of countries (or in the case of China, just the city of Beijing) concerning rates of mental illness by precentage of the population:

U.S 26.4
Ukraine 20.5
France 18.4
Columbia 17.8
Lebanon 16.4
Netherlands 14.9
Mexico 12.2
Belgium 12.0
Spain 9.2
Beijing, China 9.1
Germany 9.1
Japan 8.8
Italy 8.2
Nigeria 4.7

The average of the European nations listed was a bit under 13.2%, compared with the U.S. rate of 26.4%...

You are not using the link from my OP and you did not present any link.

Bottom line is that almost 2 in 5 Europeans as of 2011 have some sort of mental illness according to the link in post #1. Show me a study that says as of 2011 almost 2 in 5 Americans have a mental illness.

 

[Hokulele]

Bottom line is that almost 2 in 5 Europeans as of 2011 have some sort of mental illness according to the link in post #1. Show me a study that says as of 2011 almost 2 in 5 Americans have a mental illness.

Considering the social stigma against mental illness in the US (much like the prejudice you are displaying so rampantly in this thread), is it any wonder it might possibly be underreported?