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Merged New video! Architects and Engineers - Solving the Mystery of Building 7

No one is trying to intentionally deceive anyone.

Yes, yes they are. And by the looks of your posting history, it appears they're succeeding at least in your case.

You are being hoodwinked. Period. You either don't realize it, which makes it sad, or you do realize it and are playing along. In that case you and people like you deserve zero respect. Enjoy.
 
You do not need to be a structural engineer or explosives expert to realize with complete certainty that those buildings were blown up. Just look at the facts and for most people who approach it with an open mind, the conclusion is definitive and inescapable.

But its strange, don't you think, that those most likely to know one way or the other do not agree with you............Reality is not a democracy so it matters not what "most people" think happened.
 
Typical denier response. Clearly reveals your thorough knowledge of the subject as well as your impressive mental abilities

When you so clearly display a complete inability to perceive reality through the filters imposed by your unquestioning faith in a pack of liars, it's a bit difficult to think of any other way to respond than ridicule. You've swallowed the garbage that's been fed to you so thoroughly that you've rendered yourself incapable of seeing otherwise, so rational debate seems a little pointless. You've just denied that people use metaphors in every day speech, for FSM's sake! How out of touch with reality does someone have to be to beloieve something that idiotic? At this point, ridicule is about the only option we have left. And at least it gives you something to reply to, as you're carefully avoiding responding to any substantive criticism of the lies you're so dutifully repeating.

Dave
 
Is that the one where they all signed up to having agreed with the blatant lie that WTC7 collapsed in seven seconds?

Dave


How many second do you think it was?
I think the relative point is and even nist finally admits freefall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDvNS9iMjzA

Look at the thing coming down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni0i2KZn9Hc

Freefall means there were no supports. No supports means they were removed with explosives of some kind. (Does not have to have been RDX:
Excellent video because it shows what sham job NIST did..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg&rel=0

Even a single intact vertical column would have caused an asymmetrical collapse.
I had one guy the other day saying 'it wasn't symmetrical, that's a lie!"
How can I argue with that? 'Symmetrical' means in the manner of controlled demolition. (not along the straight edge of a ruler). Now you;re telling me it wasn't 6.5 seconds.
How many was it? And why do you think that difference matters when freefall has been established to have occurred?

It looks exactly like what it was; a planned implosion
 
How many second do you think it was?

Fifteen at the bare minimum.

Even a single intact vertical column would have caused an asymmetrical collapse.

It was asymmetrical. Do pay attention please.

It looks exactly like what it was; a planned implosion

A 'planned implosion' would have taken dozens of people weeks or months to prepare - the largest controlled demo in history. No other controlled demo is even close to the size of WTC 7. Yet nobody saw a thing.

Lemme guess. A 1/2 hour security lapse allowed all this to happen in multiple buildings.....
 
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How many second do you think it was?

At least twelve, probably more. Seven seconds is clearly wrong. So you're asking us to believe 1500 people who signed up to a statement that's clearly factually incorrect.

I think the relative point is and even nist finally admits freefall:

Your opinion is that it's relevant. The opinion of every competent structural engineer who's commented on it is that it isn't.

Freefall means there were no supports. No supports means they were removed with explosives of some kind.

Rubbish. No supports means that the supports had failed in some way over multiple storeys. This doesn't require explosives.

Even a single intact vertical column would have caused an asymmetrical collapse.

Since the collapse was asymmetrical, that's not a problem.

I had one guy the other day saying 'it wasn't symmetrical, that's a lie!"
How can I argue with that? 'Symmetrical' means in the manner of controlled demolition. (not along the straight edge of a ruler).

So your argument is that it must have been a controlled demolition because the collapse was symmetrical, which is the way a controlled demolition collapses, but symmetrical doesn't mean symmetrical, it means that it collapsed in the same way as a controlled demolition. In other words, your evidence that it collapsed in the same way as a controlled demolition is that you've asserted that it collapsed in the same way as a controlled demolition.

Let's just get back to reality for a moment, shall we? Firstly, controlled demolitions may be symmetrical or asymmetrical, depending on how they're planned. If there are structures nearby on one side only, a controlled demolition will be planned to drop the building away from them. So whether the collapse was symmetrical or not, it's completely irrelevant to the question of whether it was controlled or not. And secondly, controlled demolition doesn't result in buildings falling at freefall, so whether it fell at freefall or not, that's completely irrelevant too.

Now you;re telling me it wasn't 6.5 seconds.
How many was it? And why do you think that difference matters when freefall has been established to have occurred?

It doesn't. None of it matters. Nothing in the collapse time or the observed acceleration of the building demonstrates anything at all about the collapse initiation mechanism, other than that it took place over a height of around four storeys. Since this is easily explained in terms of a collapse due to fire damage [1], but is not easily explained in terms of a controlled demolition [2], it strongly suggests that the collapse was caused by fire damage; but it's not entirely conclusive either way. And neither, of course, is your uninformed opinion that:

It looks exactly like what it was; a planned implosion

What is conclusive, however, is that it doesn't sound like a planned implosion; and that makes it absolutely certain, to anyone who understands what they're looking at and listening to, that it wasn't one.

Dave

[1] ISTR from the NIST report that the required unbraced length for column 79 to fail was about 8 storeys. This would leave adjacent core columns also unbraced over about 8 storeys, resulting in their collapse over a similar length. This would then leave the perimeter columns unbraced over the same 8 storeys, resulting in an 8-storey high buckle. As the buckle developed, the initial acceleration of the facade would be less than 1G, until the point where the hinges fractured, where it would increase to about 1G. This would then be maintained until the falling structure struck the remaining fixed structure, 8 storeys further down, resulting in exactly the acceleration profile observed.

[2] Demolition charges are normally placed on a single storey only, because this is more than enough to initiate a self-sustaining collapse. This would result in no period of freefall acceleration. A period of freefall acceleration equal to an 8-storey drop, as observed, could be achieved by setting two floors' worth of charges, 8 storeys apart, and possibly additional charges in between to fragment the intervening structure; however, quite apart from requiring more than twice the amount of explosives (and, of course, making even more noise that nobody heard), this would produce an initial period of freefall acceleration, rather than the initial increase in acceleration that was actually observed.

Truthers can't bring themselves to admit that, when you actually think about the acceleration profile of WTC7, you realise that it's virtually impossible for it to have been caused by explosives.
 
How many second do you think it was? ...

No - how many seconds do YOU think it was?

a) 7 seconds, like the folks at AE911T try to make you believe
b) >13 seconds, like anybody just watching a video (unedited by AE911T) can find out for themselves
 
Well we know that columns were ejected at high power anyway because they are stuck in buildings all around ground zero. THere are planty of pictures I believe. So for those columns I think explosives were probably used. The collapse of the building certainly did not eject them so far and so fast.

I think that the 4-ton chunk going 600 feet is just a planted story.


Were they ejected at high power or is it a planted story?
 
How many second do you think it was?
I think the relative point is and even nist finally admits freefall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDvNS9iMjzA

Look at the thing coming down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni0i2KZn9Hc

Can you explain why the second video you post never shows the east penthouse collapse into the building? You mean that the east penthouse WASN'T part of that collapse?

Freefall means there were no supports. No supports means they were removed with explosives of some kind. (Does not have to have been RDX:
Excellent video because it shows what sham job NIST did..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg&rel=0

Do failed columns due to exceeding the load limits equal "no support"? Yes or no?

Even a single intact vertical column would have caused an asymmetrical collapse.
I had one guy the other day saying 'it wasn't symmetrical, that's a lie!"
How can I argue with that? 'Symmetrical' means in the manner of controlled demolition. (not along the straight edge of a ruler). Now you;re telling me it wasn't 6.5 seconds.
How many was it? And why do you think that difference matters when freefall has been established to have occurred?

It looks exactly like what it was; a planned implosion

The east penthouse potion of the collapse, something you and your brethren leave out as noted in the video above, makes it asymmetrical. Is that why you leave the east penthouse out of your "symmetrical" equation?
 
How many second do you think it was?
I think the relative point is and even nist finally admits freefall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDvNS9iMjzA

What does total time have to do with the freefall?



Freefall means there were no supports. No supports means they were removed with explosives of some kind. (Does not have to have been RDX:

Rubbish. You have been repeatedly shown that short periods of freefall are possible without explosives.

Even a single intact vertical column would have caused an asymmetrical collapse.

and it was assymetrical so whats you problem???

I had one guy the other day saying 'it wasn't symmetrical, that's a lie!"
How can I argue with that? 'Symmetrical' means in the manner of controlled demolition. (not along the straight edge of a ruler). Now you;re telling me it wasn't 6.5 seconds.

No you can't make up the meanings of words to suit yourself. And it clearly wasn't 6.5 seconds. Only the remaining north wall took that time.

How many was it? And why do you think that difference matters when freefall has been established to have occurred?

I'd guess 15 seconds and whats this obsession with freefall of a part of a building for a brief period???? It would make an interesting class exercise for Eng 101 but nothing more.

It looks exactly like what it was; a planned implosion

I'm curious.....why would "they" plan it to look like a planned "implosion"?
and could you please show us one CD that has freefall since you think this is a vital part of CD...........
 
Well we know that columns were ejected at high power anyway because they are stuck in buildings all around ground zero. THere are planty of pictures I believe. So for those columns I think explosives were probably used. The collapse of the building certainly did not eject them so far and so fast.

I think that the 4-ton chunk going 600 feet is just a planted story.

Even though the videos show the perimeter columns falling sideways? See screen capture below from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkbGAzzidFI&feature=related

perimeterwall.png
 
Metaphors, really? Oh yeah..maybe they were thinking about their creative writing class after just nearly dying in a catastrophic event which killed 343 of their fellow firefighters You think? (You know how many firefighters bodies were recovered? 70
And yet none of them, not a one of those firefighters believe in any explosive demolition conspiracy
'trolls' is the best you can do.
I call em as I see em. You are either profoundly and deliberately ignorant or a troll.
I guess that applies to the over 1500 building professionals who which have signed the petition at ae911truth.org. Fact is, there are 911truth groups founded by almost every professional walk of life and involving all kinds of people. from world class academics:http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters/e/hand-waving-the physics-of-911-by-david-griscom.pdf
to military personal, veterans, actors, religious leaders, Christians, Muslims, Jews, doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers, firefighters, family members, scientists, almost every US state and county, every country has them.. (to mention just a few of the more prominent) and MILLIONS of people from all walks of life the world over, that have looked at the evidence, at the FACTS, and come to the same terrible conclusion.
And yet none of them have any input as far as peer reviewed papers in established and recognized journals
But you dismiss them all as "trolls." (That says a lot about you and nothing about 911 Truth).
Its what they are when they continually ignore science, deliberately lie and promote agenda driven rhetoric.
Nice bandwagon you got there http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#bandwagon
We should all be troubled by the fact that there is no mention of the Harrit study in the NY Times. That most American have not seen the video of WTC7 coming down. That WTC 7 was not even mentioned in then 911 Commission Report -(aka The Omission Commission)
I am troubled by the fact that Harrit et al refuse to publish in a recognized respected journal and choose a vanity journal. It makes one think they did this on purpose to sidestep critical review from recognized specialists
Whatever our position here.. we should all be disturbed by this obvious cover-up. There's a very important reason why the press is the only profession mentioned in and given constitutional protections. Even with all of this, the numbers of people who realize that the official account cannot possibly be true are staggering. Look up 911 polls.
There is no "cover up". The world at large can see agenda driven lying conspiracy crackpots for what they are and give them the recognition they deserve. which is none
You can keep your head buried in the sand. Call people names. Avoid and dismiss all you want. But the facts remain the same and they all point the same way: explosives used to destroy wtc 1,2&7. And are the reason why the 911Truth is such a massive continually expanding grassroots movement.

You do not need to be a structural engineer or explosives expert to realize with complete certainty that those buildings were blown up. Just look at the facts and for most people who approach it with an open mind,empty head the conclusion is definitive and inescapable.
fixed that for ya, have fun with your incredulity
 
Typical troofer response..........missing the point completely and talking out of a lower orifice.

Fascinating to behold though. Have any studies been done on truthers? Does their syndrome have a name yet?
 
Troofers are impressed with any number greater than what they can count on their hands and feet :eek:

They will never even get to 1/2 of 1% of licensed proffesionals

Of course, the more landscape professionals and computer engineers they allow, the lower that percentage gets....
 
I guess that applies to the over 1500 building professionals who which have signed the petition at ae911truth.org.

And those 1500+ professional support the the bogus claim that "WTC7 COMPLETELY collapsed in less than 7 seconds."

How can PROFESSIONALS support such an outright lie?
 
We dont know that these thermtic materials (red/gray chips) were used for explosive purposes. Only that they are a form of hi-tech, advance engineered nanocomposite thermitic material that clearly have no business being in the WTC dust.

What exactly is a "hi-tech, advance engineered nanocomposite thermitic material"? Is is different than a "low-tech, average randomly produced nanocomposite thermitic material"? I just want to know if your techno-babble actually means anything or if you just like using words you don't understand ;)

In no way shape or form could they possibly be paint or primer of any sort.

Proof? Why can't they be paint or primer of any sort?

They have virtually the same chemical signatures as commercial thermite.

Really? You might want to......I don't know.....actually look up what the chemical signature would be and compare the two before making a comment like this again....;)


Paint is not going to leave elemental iron spheres as a by-product or have such powerful energetic reactions.

"Powerful energetic"? ROFL ROFL ROFL.....do you know what those words mean? I can give you an online dictionary link if you can't find one :)

On this page you find a side by side comparison of the two. (analyses of the by products of both commercial thermite and the red-gray chips) http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html

Did you bother to read your own source? When your own "evidence" doesn't prove what you want it to.....well....you might not want to use it....just a tip.

The Harrit paper conclusively refutes any notion of their being paint. Even just by looking at the SEM images we can see they cannot be paint.. but that is still what deniers are calling them. So you can see this 'debunking' is not very compelling.

You can tell that by looking at the SEM images? Really? Perhaps we underestimated your skills.....what else can you tell from the SEM images? The Engineering world is waiting to hear what other conclusions you can arrive at about a materials chemical composition just by looking at a few SEM images......




There is no debate over the thermite paper.....no one debates it in real life because it is ignored. It is ignored because the paper is so ridiculous that is elicits a collective *YAWN* from the majority of experts....

Sure....some experts might get angry for a few seconds after reading it due to the total incompetence found in the paper......some experts might laugh at it and make fun of the errors and mistakes in how the authors arrived at their conclusions....but then they just either trash the paper or close the screen and then go on with real life science and engineering.

That's how "convincing" the Harrit paper.....and indeed all truther arguments.....are to the majority (like 99.99%) of experts in real life.
 
We dont know that these thermtic materials (red/gray chips) were used for explosive purposes. Only that they are a form of hi-tech, advance engineered nanocomposite thermitic material that clearly have no business being in the WTC dust. In no way shape or form could they possibly be paint or primer of any sort. They have virtually the same chemical signatures as commercial thermite. Paint is not going to leave elemental iron spheres as a by-product or have such powerful energetic reactions.

On this page you find a side by side comparison of the two. (analyses of the by products of both commercial thermite and the red-gray chips) http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html

The Harrit paper conclusively refutes any notion of their being paint. Even just by looking at the SEM images we can see they cannot be paint.. but that is still what deniers are calling them. So you can see this 'debunking' is not very compelling.
Read my sigs. Materials characterisation was part of my training. I've got far more experience than Harrit or Jones when it comes to materials characterisation and identification. Harrit is a chemist and even he didn't have any interest in the one thing that a chemist should have been interested in, namely the organic binder material. He should have known that FTIR analysis would have been perfect to find out not only what that material is but also the other particles. Couple that info with XRD or microprobe and you get the answer. He didn't. He's incompetent. Your problem is you have no knowledge of the subject. This means you base your position on an argument from authority. There are plenty of other scientists who have materials science degrees and experience that say it's paint, but you don't believe them. Why not?

The funny thing is truthers don't realise just how easy it is to debunk the Harrit et al paper. Even their DSC thermograms show it can't be what they say it is but because truthers lack even the most rudimentary knowledge of, well lets face it, anything, they just believe anything that's on youtube or a conspiracy site.

Explain Fig 31 in the paper to us. I need a laugh.
 

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