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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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little grey rabbit said:
Just hold on while I parse that paragraph through Google Hoax Translater.

waiting waiting waiting....:
"I don't believe this photo is a gas chamber and I certainly can't make any meaningful reconstruction using Wiernik's various maps, so I will distract attention by a bit of flaming."

Why thank you Mr Google, this is a wonderful addition to your suite of products.
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My god, you are tiresome.
 
Kevin.Silbstedt said:
We are all still waiting for a proof of that.
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And the point would be? I think you already wasted my time enough. I'm not the one making extra ordinary claims based on nothing, so why don't you show us the problem?
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I imagine the point would be to demonstrate that one piece of incontrovertible evidence (Wiernik's map) cannot be reconciled with another piece of incontrovertible evidence (the photograph).
 
Dogzilla said:
I imagine the point would be to demonstrate that one piece of incontrovertible evidence (Wiernik's map) cannot be reconciled with another piece of incontrovertible evidence (the photograph).
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Funny, I never spoke of the whole map, but only of the old gas chamber (and things like the excavater, but that wasn't point). Is this a strawman attempt? And Wiernik's model and testimony come really close to what we can see in the photograph, which makes Wiernik an important witness, especially when it comes to details and you little Nutzis won't change that fact.

It is perfectly possible to create out of all the testimonies a consistent model for the old gas chamber (and for the new one, but others have already done that) and this couldn't be possible, if the eyewitnesses were just making **** up.

But that doesn't stop you or your "Kameraden" from your denial. Nothing can and will. But who cares anyway? Holocaust deniers are a breed, that is dying out.
 
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Kevin.Silbstedt said:
Of course, what again was the version of Adobe Photoshop back than?
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To be fair, photo manipulation has been around almost as long as photography itself. The electronic age simply made it easier and quicker.

That said, it is still incumbent upon the person claiming the photos are faked to provide the evidence supporting that claim. Simply insisting the photos are forged is wholly insufficient.
 
Corsair 115 said:
To be fair, photo manipulation has been around almost as long as photography itself. The electronic age simply made it easier and quicker.

That said, it is still incumbent upon the person claiming the photos are faked to provide the evidence supporting that claim. Simply insisting the photos are forged is wholly insufficient.
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Yeah, I know. I was just mocking his idiotic claim. Our Hitler bunny just likes to shout "forgery" at everything, that doesn't fit his nutty views and that without a shred of evidence.
 
Dogzilla said:
If Goering had tried to explain where 1.5 million Jews had been sent by the end of 1942, that would be what you would call an unambiguous blanket denial that between five and six million Jews had been murdered by various methods--including gas chambers--in Nazi Germany's plan to exterminate all the Jews which they called the Final Solution to the Jewish Question?
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Which just goes to show that denying the Holocaust is actually quite dificult, since not all Jews were killed at the same time and not all in the same places. Your hypothetical smartass Goering would have to think up several excuses in order to be convincing.

You're basing your argument on the where are the missing Jews gambit. It's a logical fallacy based on the excluded middle--that Jews in Europe either 1) survived the war or 2) were intentionally murdered through a variety of methods including gas chambers by the Nazis as part of the plan to exterminate all the Jews.
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There's no fallacy of the excluded middle here. Goering could of course have admitted that he was aware that all 1.5 million Jews were deported to Generalbezirk Nikolajew, but that owing to the food situation nothing was provided for them so all but a handful starved to death before Easter 1943.

Given the world's reaction to Belsen in 1945, I think you will have a hard time claiming that this scenario would have genuinely produced less revulsion and horror at Nazi policies.

The challenge is silly and meaningless but I'll try anyway. I think they were all sent to district number seven because that's the only one that has 'jew' in it's name.
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Now go away and look up Generalbezirk Nikolajew (might also be called Generalkommisar or Generalkommissariat Nikolajew) in your supposedly extensive library of books about WWII and tell us more about the district. Maybe book a flight there and ask around, see if anyone remembers? That'd be more work towards proving the Hoax than most deniers have ever managed.

It's Mykolaiv today, btw. Nikolayev to the Russians. Shows how little you know about German if you get hung up on -yev being written -jew auf deutsch.
 
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Dogzilla said:
You're basing your argument on the where are the missing Jews gambit. It's a logical fallacy based on the excluded middle--that Jews in Europe either 1) survived the war or 2) were intentionally murdered through a variety of methods including gas chambers by the Nazis as part of the plan to exterminate all the Jews.
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The more I read this, the more stupid it seems. Whoever taught you logic ought to be ashamed of themselves, or you were a very dumb student.

You were presented with a simple point based on two very substantial sets of empirical evidence, namely 1) more than 1.5 million Jews can be amply documented as deported in 1942, 2) Goering was in charge of agriculture and the food supply in Nazi-occupied Europe.

These two points were presented because they are essentially irrefutable, so extensive is the documentation and the proof of them. They were made while removing any evidence or reference to the point in dispute - namely that the deported Jews were in fact sent to a small number of camps and killed there, in 1942.

It really doesn't matter what kind of handwaving waffle you offer to avoid explaining where the Jews went if not to the small number of camps and into the ground, because Goering was in charge of agriculture and the supply for the whole of Nazi occupied Europe. Every single possible location that could ever be dreamed up would concern him. And every single possible location would be receiving some unknown number of Jews over and above the people already living there. It doesn't matter whether the SS or somebody else takes charge of the Jews, they have to receive some food, or they die. And this is going to leave a paper trail. Right back up to Goering. Who would therefore know what had happened to the deported Jews.

There is no fallacy of the excluded middle here. The point I made was quite open ended, you could have dreamed up all manner of respones if you knew how, except you don't know how to reply because you don't actually really know anything about Nazi-occupied Europe. You probably didn't even know that Goering was in ultimate charge of the food supply, I'm guessing. None of you guys seem to bother to learn about very simple things like that.

For all the blethering about quantities of wood required to cremate corpses and other pseudo-technical arguments we get from deniers, none of you have ever paid the slightest attention to economics or logistics. You move someone, they need looking after. Or they will eventually die.

You move someone in 1942, you've got at least two years to look after them in most places in occupied Europe. That's the yawning chasm which deniers can never explain. It's got nothing to do with whether someone survives the war. The question is about 1942-44. Not 1945 or 1948 or any other year.
 
little grey rabbit said:
Funny, the building in your photo looks remarkably similar to this building, a bakery
[qimg]http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/survivor/images/bakery%20-treblinka%201944.jpg[/qimg]


What on earth is it about bakeries that make you Jews describe them as gas chambers?
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They hate yeast.
 
Clayton Moore said:
A poster notes a single page of vague inference of the mechanics of a German genocide against the Jewish people of Europe out of 10s of thousands pages, maybe even 100s of thousands of pages written by the three key players of the allied powers. I dismiss it as nonsense and you tell me to knock it off.

Maybe you've forgotten that the key to propagating the Holocaust myth is to throw crap after crap after crap into history as if it is the absolute truth.

The guy puts up one page of nonsense and I'm supposed to treat it like it like meaningful information/debate.

You need to WTFU.
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If you believe that somebody has posted meaningless nonsense as if it were some sort of smoking gun, then say that. Say it is nonsense and say why it is is nonsense. Saying that you just 'threw that page of doublespeak in the trash' and a 'what are you going to do about it?' might be a flippant in-your-face way of saying that the evidence is garbage. It's also something someone might say if they've made up their mind and is planning to simply ignore anything that might challenge their belief.

If you're going to play this game you are going to have to address extremely weak evidence that would be laughed out of the discussion if this were any other topic besides the holocaust. That's the nature of the beast. Weak evidence is all they have. So addressing weak evidence is the yoke we must bear.
 
Wroclaw said:
Given that killing millions of Jews was among the charges, yes, that's correct.
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If killing millions of Jews was among the charges, then Goering did deny doing so when he plead not guilty to all the charges. All the defendants at Nuremberg plead not guilty to all the charges. So all the defendants did in fact deny the holocaust.
 
Dogzilla said:
If you're going to play this game you are going to have to address extremely weak evidence that would be laughed out of the discussion if this were any other topic besides the holocaust.
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So you, yourself, admit to having seperate standards of evidence for The Holocaust and everything else? No wonder you think it didn't happen.

That's the nature of the beast. Weak evidence is all they have. So addressing weak evidence is the yoke we must bear.
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Awww... poor widdle master wace. Our hearts bweed.

Would da widdle nazis wike a cookie?
 
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