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UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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ufology said:
The above comment is one of those flippant remarks that only brings disrepute to skeptics and the JREF. The JREF is trying to reach out to the public to help people understand the various claims of the paranormal and other issues that it feels are misleading and possibly even damaging. I believe it is a noble cause and that if the JREF is to be successful it needs to be convincing to those who it is trying to reach, and it will not be able to do that unless they care. Many people who believe the things the JREF is trying to educate people about have just been misled or are uninformed, but are otherwise good people. You won't win them over with mockery and ridicule.

j.r.
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I don't doubt that you're a good person, you just don't think critically about UFOlogy. How could you be convinced to think critically?
 
RoboTimbo said:
No, it's important to know the context of when the acronym was coined, during the cold war.


So your light in the sky would not be defined as a UFO? I would point out that sightings of alleged UFOs have turned out to be aircraft, missiles and other manmade and natural phenomena. Which ones have turned out to be aliens?


It is even more well known that the USAF subscribes to the null hypothesis which is:


"All UFO sightings are of mundane origin"
​
since that has never been falsified.


Well, no. :) UFOs (Unidentified Flying Objects) trivially exist. Sometimes, once they are Identified, they are found to not be Flying and sometimes not Objects. We just don't know that any have ever been structured metallic craft of alien origin. That's why the null hypothesis has never been falsified. Only pseudoscientist UFOlogists start with an unfalsified null hypothesis.
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All good points above in that it demonstrates the problems with the lexicon of ufology. Much of the minutiae involves the politics within the USAF at the time the word came into being. Strictly speaking, saying that a UFO turned out to be an aircraft is not correct.

No UFO ever turns out to be an aircraft. What is really supposed to be said, but which usually isn't in an informal setting is that the object reported turned out to be an aircraft ... or the object in the UFO report turned out to be an aircraft. The main difference being that UFO reports and UFOs are two completely separate things.

As for the object I saw, I presume the suggestion was made that because of the lighting it could have been an aircraft, and so shouldn't be classed as a UFO. To this I respond by saying that aircraft have specific types of marker lights that indicate they are aircraft even at night when the aircraft itself isn't visible. The object I saw had no such lights. It was itself a light ... a sphere of bluish white light ... and it fits the official definition of UFO, mainly because of its "performance characteristics".

j.r.
 
RoboTimbo said:
I don't doubt that you're a good person, you just don't think critically about UFOlogy. How could you be convinced to think critically?
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Well I appreciate the sentiment ... ( I think ). If you don't believe that I think critically, you don't have to convince me. I aim to do that as a general practise, and I already do a pretty good job. But if you think that I don't, then we need to pick some starting point ( again ). Perhaps revisit the idea of what consitutes critical thinking ... as was being discussed in the thread I started on the subject that got completly derailed by the skeptical crowd here.

j.r.
 
Off-topic posts have been moved to AAH.

A derail caused by an uncivil attack on another member has been moved to AAH.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Loss Leader
 
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ufology said:
The above is a sliced misrepresentation by omission, the omission being the examples everyone is familar with of how our memory is in fact self correcting.
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How is memory self-correcting? Are you saying that memory, all by itself, when it makes a mistake, somehow is able to correct that mistake? Can you give some details here?

I saw a lot from you, since you posted the above, about the accuracy of memory, but I nothing about correcting itself, please forgive me if I missed it.
 
Paul2 said:
How is memory self-correcting? Are you saying that memory, all by itself, when it makes a mistake, somehow is able to correct that mistake? Can you give some details here?

I saw a lot from you, since you posted the above, about the accuracy of memory, but I nothing about correcting itself, please forgive me if I missed it.
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I don't want to put words in his mouth, but from what I've gathered, ufology says that memory is "self-correcting" when you remember something you previously couldn't remember, such as someone's name or the name of a song.

Of course as has been pointed out, this isn't memory being self-correcting at all, it is simply finding a memory you couldn't locate previously. "Self-correcting" would imply that errors in imperfect memories are somehow corrected in the brain. Where the brain would get the correct details to "repair" the memories, or the process whereby this is supposed to happen, is anyone's guess.

If this is not what he meant, hopefully he'll clarify things.
 
Hi there,

I've been studying the Ufo/Alien case for over thirty years now. I came across this thread which is uhh.. interesting to say the least. Upon noticing the inevitable questions and discussions here may I post my thoughts/conclusions on this subject?

1. I would be greatly disappointed if UFO's turn out to be real aliens visiting our planet

2. There is a vast, yet unseen 'scala' of 'things' that fly around at high to very high speeds which make them almost impossible to notice, let alone to photograph

3. In the upper atmosphere, aking to space live amoeba-like lifeforms which can be detected in the infrared spectrum

4. Space is not the lifeless continuum we have been told. In the immediate area around Earth, say 20.000 - 200.000 km, life can be seen like fish, plankton, protozoa.

Ad1:
Is the last 50-60 years gazillions of ufo's have been spotted, noticed, photographed and filmed. Close encounters of every kind you can think of. Visitors of Mars, Venus, Jupiter, grays from Zeta Reticuli, you name it. Spacecraft like dishes, saucers, cubes, spheres, cigars, blimps, triangles, piramids. Blinking red, green, orange, blue. Shapeshifting, becoming invisible, translucent. Small, big, enormous.

The problem is that until now, not a single piece of really convincing evidence in form of clear and unmistaking pictures or footage has been shot. Why is that? Why do these visitors come up with often ridiculous 'messages' for mankind. In code, morse, steno, binary code. Why do they vanish after giving these messages, or after exposing themselves, leaving the witness in a state of confusion. This witness often questions himself... He can't tell the story becauae nobody would believe him/her. A blue cube with translucent people? Hahaha, how much did you drink?

I am certain that the majority of these wittnesses tell the truth. What is the matter here? In my opinion, and that of certain UFO investigators, these UFO's do not come out of space. They are no visitors from other planets. They do not have messages for mankind. It is an intelligence that comes form our own planet. It has unlimited powers and it plays a nasty game. It is deliberate 'strange' in its exposures, taking a different disguise everytime. You can trace it, but you will never find the answer. The more we investigate, the more questions will arise. It is like something that keeps itself in the dark, just outside the range of your flashlight.

Ad2:
With digital cameras sensitive to the infrared and with high shutterspeeds we can see much more than with conventional cameras. The sky is filled with fast flying things that are very difficult to classify. Sometimes they are invisible, that is, only visible to the infrared. What are they? I have tried to classify these things. On my website http:www.luchtvissen.nl you wille find many pictures of these 'skyfishes' as we call them. I think that they are some kind of animal but with other capabilities. Under chapter 'Etheria' you will find a classification of these things. Yes, we think Wilhelm Reich was right.

Ad3:
Many leaked Nasa footage show these big dishes (thether experiment) that show somehow intelligence. They are no alien ships. They are no spacecrafts. It is a kind of biological species, akin to amoeba or bacteria, perhaps with the same intelligence. In the fifties, these critters have been photographed by Trevor James Constable. They show up in infrared and can be aeen in the aforementioned Nasa videos.

Ad4:
Many astronauts noticed strange 'fireflies' that swarm in space. Things that flash, show some intelligence like fish show curiosity for the diver. These things can be seen in many Nasa videos. They 'swim' through space, sometimes even very slowly and sometimes they can be noticed comng out of a stage of translucency. They do not come from other planets. They do not come from outer space.

We have to alter our cosmic view. Life is something that does not only exist on plantes, but can exist in the black void.

My first point (1) is difficult. Difficult to understand, difficult to classify. I do not know what they are, but I'm certain that a very keen game is in play here.

Points 2 - 4 can be easily proven by Nasa. Why do they act like imbeciles? We know, as we have seen in the vids, that there is something the matter out there. These things exist. Get over it and tell the public.

Sander
 
Snadert said:
Hi there,

I've been studying the Ufo/Alien case for over thirty years now. I came across this thread which is uhh.. interesting to say the least. Upon noticing the inevitable questions and discussions here may I post my thoughts/conclusions on this subject?

1. I would be greatly disappointed if UFO's turn out to be real aliens visiting our planet
Click to expand...


I think you're safe. If any aliens ever show up and we know about it they won't be UFOs, they'll be IFOs.


Snadert said:
2. There is a vast, yet unseen 'scala' of 'things' that fly around at high to very high speeds which make them almost impossible to notice, let alone to photograph
Click to expand...


How did you become aware of these 'things'?


Snadert said:
3. In the upper atmosphere, aking to space live amoeba-like lifeforms which can be detected in the infrared spectrum
Click to expand...


Oh good. You didn't forget the FLIR. When will you be posting the images?


Snadert said:
4. Space is not the lifeless continuum we have been told. In the immediate area around Earth, say 20.000 - 200.000 km, life can be seen like fish, plankton, protozoa.
Click to expand...


Sounds fishy. I don't suppose you have any evidence for this claim.


Snadert said:
Ad1:
Is the last 50-60 years gazillions of ufo's have been spotted, noticed, photographed and filmed. Close encounters of every kind you can think of. Visitors of Mars, Venus, Jupiter, grays from Zeta Reticuli, you name it. Spacecraft like dishes, saucers, cubes, spheres, cigars, blimps, triangles, piramids. Blinking red, green, orange, blue. Shapeshifting, becoming invisible, translucent. Small, big, enormous.

The problem is that until now, not a single piece of really convincing evidence in form of clear and unmistaking pictures or footage has been shot. Why is that? Why do these visitors come up with often ridiculous 'messages' for mankind. In code, morse, steno, binary code. Why do they vanish after giving these messages, or after exposing themselves, leaving the witness in a state of confusion. This witness often questions himself... He can't tell the story becauae nobody would believe him/her. A blue cube with translucent people? Hahaha, how much did you drink?

I am certain that the majority of these wittnesses tell the truth. What is the matter here? In my opinion, and that of certain UFO investigators, these UFO's do not come out of space. They are no visitors from other planets. They do not have messages for mankind. It is an intelligence that comes form our own planet. It has unlimited powers and it plays a nasty game. It is deliberate 'strange' in its exposures, taking a different disguise everytime. You can trace it, but you will never find the answer. The more we investigate, the more questions will arise. It is like something that keeps itself in the dark, just outside the range of your flashlight.
Click to expand...


How do you know all about them?


Snadert said:
Ad2:
With digital cameras sensitive to the infrared and with high shutterspeeds we can see much more than with conventional cameras. The sky is filled with fast flying things that are very difficult to classify. Sometimes they are invisible, that is, only visible to the infrared. What are they? I have tried to classify these things. On my website http:www.luchtvissen.nl you wille find many pictures of these 'skyfishes' as we call them. I think that they are some kind of animal but with other capabilities. Under chapter 'Etheria' you will find a classification of these things. Yes, we think Wilhelm Reich was right.
Click to expand...


Okaaaaaaay.


Snadert said:
Ad3:
Many leaked Nasa footage show these big dishes (thether experiment) that show somehow intelligence. They are no alien ships. They are no spacecrafts. It is a kind of biological species, akin to amoeba or bacteria, perhaps with the same intelligence. In the fifties, these critters have been photographed by Trevor James Constable. They show up in infrared and can be aeen in the aforementioned Nasa videos.
Click to expand...


How did you come into this knowledge?


Snadert said:
Ad4:
Many astronauts noticed strange 'fireflies' that swarm in space. Things that flash, show some intelligence like fish show curiosity for the diver. These things can be seen in many Nasa videos. They 'swim' through space, sometimes even very slowly and sometimes they can be noticed comng out of a stage of translucency. They do not come from other planets. They do not come from outer space.
Click to expand...





Snadert said:
We have to alter our cosmic view. Life is something that does not only exist on plantes, but can exist in the black void.
Click to expand...


Ohnoes! Space spiders!


Snadert said:
My first point (1) is difficult. Difficult to understand, difficult to classify. I do not know what they are, but I'm certain that a very keen game is in play here.
Click to expand...


What's difficult to understand is how your not knowing what they are doesn't preclude you from knowing what they're doing.


Snadert said:
Points 2 - 4 can be easily proven by Nasa. Why do they act like imbeciles?
Click to expand...


These imbeciles have conducted manned missions to the Moon, explored Mars, and even sent spacecraft beyond the Solar System. How far have you managed to get?


Snadert said:
We know, as we have seen in the vids, that there is something the matter out there. These things exist. Get over it and tell the public.

Sander
Click to expand...


This'll end well.
 
Snadert said:
Okay, Achnaton, I'll answer your questions and show some pictures after my little holiday. So please wait until next week.
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Hi Snadert, welcome to the discussion. Enjoy your holiday, I for one can't wait for you to get back and discuss your 'research' so please do rest up lots while you are on holiday. I sense you are going to need a lot of energy to defend your corner upon your return as I've had a quick look at your website and see nothing more than the usual misidentified mundane objects that litter the internet, posted by people who don't know the first thing about IR, video or still photography shutter speeds, apertures and digital video artifacts.
 
Akhenaten said:
Ohnoes! Space spiders!
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Now witness the power of my fully armed and operational UFO summoning-fu.
IMG_7180.jpg


Now, seriously. This thread is becoming a great source for anyone wishing to check UFOlogy's flaws.

Building an UFO theory 101:
Step 1.
UFOs are real. UFOs must be real.
Step 2.
Can't find a way to turn UFO lore in to something reasonable, it makes no sense at all. Seems to be all made-up stuff.
Step 3.
UFOs must be real!
Step 4.
Space amoebas toying with us.

Lookie! OMFG! The Japanese already knew it! Must be a conspiracy!
dogora.jpg


I really would like to know what other "UFOlogists" like ufology think of this space criters space opera. Is is just fantasy? Is is pseudoscience? Do you buy it? Why? I would like to see a critical analysis. Tell me the reasons. Show me your evaluation of the evidence (*) and of the processes used to collect and analyse the evidence, how the sentient space amoebas conclusion was reached. Is it valid or its just a case of imbeciles who don't know how to use cameras?

(*) As if any has actually been presented...:rolleyes:
 
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