Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[snook1]

Grinder,

It seems as if they had a preference for cleaning up left feet, since they left three right feet (in luminol in the hallway) behind.

 

[Grinder]

"security" when word dissected as only this Board could, certainly might also include protection from prying eyes, etccc, so I still do not accept your use of that as proof the break in was 'real'

2) Sun damage likewise is pretty broad and unconvincing.
Since there were no blinds, "security" closing could simply be also to protect from morning rays waking young late sleepers.

There was no one in the room because she closed them as she left for the weekend. BTW I'm not trying to prove it was real, only that the resident, Filomena, believed someone could break in there.

5) As with so much of this, the Chief's statement has been analyzed ad nauseam, as has the Chief's wall of shame pictures, as has the chief's drive to the Questura, here spun as akin to a WWII ticker tape triumphant siren sounding proud parade down the canyon of heroes in NYC.

Again, my reticence to fully engage each of your points is steadfastly founded in reluctance to reiterate what has been reiterated into oblivion 60,000 times.

ToD omission noted with appropriate acclaim

But, but couldn't you please refer me to the PG argument as to what the Chief's statement meant. BTW the wall of shame wasn't the Chief's work.

 

[Rhea]

Not worth dwelling on, but I do believe that most people think that they are recorded a lot and that the TV police shows have impressed on us that questioning is recorded.

Once again, the fact that the police "knew it was the truth" is huge evidence that they fed it to her and did what they needed to get her John Hancock on the statement.

Also the police announced the next day: "We solved the crime; Amanda, Patrick and Raffaele killed Meredith in a sex game gone wrong, case closed". Neither of them said such a thing. Amanda merely said she was in the kitchen when Patrick murdered Meredith, Raffaele wasn't even mentioned and neither of those two said anything of the like either.

But the police knew (where from?) that it was a sex orgy gone wrong … so it makes sense that they were already convinced more or less of this scenario before the interrogation started and they merely needed something incriminating to put them into custody … their theory they already had, the "truth" they already knew …

They claim to have been completely surprised by Amanda's statement and accusation of Lumumba …

… then why wasn't the story the next day at the press conference that Amanda was involved somehow, they don't know the details yet, Patrick did kill Meredith and Raffaele's part is unclear yet, but no; they knew, without any forensic evidence and without a confession into this direction about the sex orgy gone wrong …

 

[pilot padron]

Common sense again

pilot padron,

If I understand your argument correctly, it is why were Amanda and Raffaele specifically afraid of Rudi. Here I think you have a valid, if limited, point. Pro-guilt commenters might say, "Why should they be afraid unless they knew specifically that Rudi were involved?" I think that A and R made a natural assumption that the police had got the right person at last. The incompetence of ILE in this matter had not yet fully revealed itself, or they might have been less inclined to do so. Moreover, if A and R knew of the handprint, then it would be an entirely understandable assumption that the police had nabbed the true perpetrator.

Let us assume the opposite of what I believe for a moment (that A and R are guilty). In the past it has been argued in some quarters that A and R did not name Rudi because they were afraid he would turn on them. Well, that day has come and gone. Rudi (obliquely) pointed a finger at them in his court appearance. And yet A and R don't return the favor? If they were guilty, I would expect them to do so, but they did not. I don't believe that this argument alone is a strong one, but it does make one pause and reflect. MOO.

You solve your own conundrum.

Yes, indeed, the finger point at them was absolutely so "oblique" that it in no way ameliorated the overpowering self preservation motivation so accurately and convincingly argued as to why no one "rats out" anyone else.....YET.

 

[Grinder]

… then why wasn't the story the next day at the press conference that Amanda was involved somehow, they don't know the details yet, Patrick did kill Meredith and Raffaele's part is unclear yet, but no; they knew, without any forensic evidence and without a confession in this direction about the sex orgy gone wrong …

My guess is that the PG people would say that the police had come to the conclusion that the murder had occurred just as Amanda described it in "her" statement but had never mentioned it during the interrogation. What an unfortunate coincidence for Patrick.

Pilot is that close?

 

[RoseMontague]

Snook1,

Not worth dwelling on, but I do believe that most people think that they are recorded a lot and that the TV police shows have impressed on us that questioning is recorded.

Once again, the fact that the police "knew it was the truth" is huge evidence that they fed it to her and did what they needed to get her John Hancock on the statement.

The "bloody" footprints are the evidence they were in the room. The question is where did they acquire the blood. I recall that the evidence of clean up is the lack of evidence not actual positive evidence of the cleaning. Was she wearing shoes or not?

The Knox girl was not there that night. The only decent Luminol print does not even match her foot.

Massei believes that Knox was barefoot based on his discussion of the partial shoe-print on the pillow case.

 

[Rhea]

My guess is that the PG people would say that the police had come to the conclusion that the murder had occurred just as Amanda described it in "her" statement but had never mentioned it during the interrogation. What an unfortunate coincidence for Patrick.

Pilot is that close?

But she didn't say anything about a sex orgy gone wrong; she said she was sitting in the kitchen, no mention of Raffale, the police apparently had their own theory …

 

[Rhea]

Let us assume the opposite of what I believe for a moment (that A and R are guilty). In the past it has been argued in some quarters that A and R did not name Rudi because they were afraid he would turn on them. Well, that day has come and gone. Rudi (obliquely) pointed a finger at them in his court appearance. And yet A and R don't return the favor? If they were guilty, I would expect them to do so, but they did not. I don't believe that this argument alone is a strong one, but it does make one pause and reflect. MOO.

That is exactly true in my opinion and the reason why Rudy's fingering Amanda and Raffaele in court fits their innocence; if Rudy had known them to be guilty there would have been great danger in fingering them, a backlash was to be expected, if they are innocent though, what are they supposed to do? They can't finger him in return …

… also he he stayed wo vague in his statement that he could say at any point (if their innocence is acknowledged) "well, I was never certain anyway", works out perfectly for him …

 

[snook1]

The Knox girl was not there that night. The only decent Luminol print does not even match her foot.

Massei believes that Knox was barefoot based on his discussion of the partial shoe-print on the pillow case.

Which later was attributed to Guede, right?
Was this ever cleared in the court?

 

[pilot padron]

Another "Whopper"

To date, I have not seen any credible info how, why, when and by using which tools they performed this clean up.

Again, I humbly just try to prevent some of most outrageous agenda driven biased and utterly unproven proclamations here from becoming accepted as "fact" solely on the basis of unchallenged repetition and dire lack of guilt manpower here to refute even a fraction of them.

I beg to draw attention to the 1,000 or so posts about bleach purchase, store owner statements, the inevitable self incriminating silly excuse for Knox being seen with a mop and bucket on the local streets, Sollecito's suddenly leaking sink and on and on, and on.
Again, the whole sordid picture please

EXAMPLE: IIRC, fingerprints of Knox were not found...even in her own room

My belief in a 'clean up' is no less strong than in the *staged* break in.
And with that I bid you a good night

 

[RoseMontague]

Which later was attributed to Guede, right?
Was this ever cleared in the court?

The prosecution said it was Amanda's , the defense that it was Rudy's, Massei said it didn't matter because she was barefoot anyway.

 

[Fine]

Thanks for the welcome.

Obviously, I've been saving up some questions.

The call from Raffaele's dad was at 8:45 or so and people have said that indicated they must have eaten before that time because Raffaele said he was doing dishes. When I was in college and I must admit even to this date I often wash dishes before or as I'm cooking. After dinner is a time for entertainment not chores. Unless there is other confirming evidence of what doing the dishes meant in terms of the time of dinner, I don't believe that that evidence means anything.

_____________________

Welcome Grinder,

Amanda said in her court testimony that they ate dinner and then the pipe broke.......


"GCM: Can you say what time this was?

AK: Um, around, um, we ate around 9:30 or 10, and then after we had eaten and
he was washing the dishes, well, as I said, I don't look at the clock much, but
it was around 10. And...he...umm...well, he was washing the dishes and, umm,
the water was coming out and he was very "bummed" [English], displeased, he
told me he had just had that thing repaired. He was annoyed that it had broken
again. So, umm..."



///

 

[pilot padron]

Another "Whopper"

To date, I have not seen any credible info how, why, when and by using which tools they performed this clean up.

Again, I humbly just try to prevent some of most outrageous agenda driven biased and utterly unproven proclamations here from becoming accepted as "fact" solely on the basis of unchallenged repetition and dire lack of guilt manpower here to refute even a fraction of them.

I beg to draw attention to the 1,000 or so posts about bleach purchase, store owner statements, the inevitable self incriminating silly excuse for Knox being seen with a mop and bucket on the local streets, Sollecito's suddenly leaking sink and on and on, and on.
Again, the whole sordid picture please

EXAMPLE: IIRC, fingerprints of Knox were not found...even in her own room

My belief in a 'clean up' is no less strong than in the *staged* break in.

BTW:
Rather than you losing sleep over the points I choose now not to address, please just peruse the arguments of SomeAlibi, Machiavelli , Fulcanelli, and many other past "PG" personalities who have obliterated with impeccable logic and detail all of the 'points' being dragged out yet again and being tossed at my humble doorstep.

And with that I bid you a good night

 

[Grinder]

Pilot you're a peach!

Thanks for bringing back the mop mob mumbo jumbo and even the bleach receipt. I watched this approach for years. This discussion is supposed to divert into an endless discussion of things the british tabs foisted on the world that have been shown to have absolutely no merit. Extra credit for adding the new touch of Amanda being seen on the streets with the M&B.

If you won't tell us the line on what the Chief meant perhaps you could explain why you keep repeating those old canards.

I can't say for certain that R&A didn't have anything to do with the crime, but I can say that the case is very weak and as evidence drops away it would behoove those that are PG to answer basic questions.

Thanks in advance

 

[snook1]

I beg to draw attention to the 1,000 or so posts about bleach purchase, store owner statements, the inevitable self incriminating silly excuse for Knox being seen with a mop and bucket on the local streets, Sollecito's suddenly leaking sink and on and on, and on.
Again, the whole sordid picture please

EXAMPLE: IIRC, fingerprints of Knox were not found...even in her own room

My belief in a 'clean up' is no less strong than in the *staged* break in.
And with that I bid you a good night

Here's the whole picture, pilot:
Why the store owner's employee didn't confirm his boss' words?
Why there's no video footage of Knox buying the bleach? (there was a camera)
Why there's no recipt for bleach?
Why there's no bleach mixed with DNA and/or blood belonging to Meredith found on the mops?
Why did the store owner say he didn't saw Knox and only after year later he stated he saw her?

Why, during the amazing clean up, Amanda and Raffaele didn't actually clean anything? There's blood and a visible foorprint in the bathroom, feces in the other bathroom? Did they forgot? Or maybe they were so high that they didn't even notice it? The Machine, recently, claimed they weren't that drugged up? So which one is it?

Please comeback, after some reading, beacuse, like seriously, your knowledge about the case is as weak as Mignini's knowledge about justice.

 

[RoseMontague]

Again, I humbly just try to prevent some of most outrageous agenda driven biased and utterly unproven proclamations here from becoming accepted as "fact" solely on the basis of unchallenged repetition and dire lack of guilt manpower here to refute even a fraction of them.

I beg to draw attention to the 1,000 or so posts about bleach purchase, store owner statements, the inevitable self incriminating silly excuse for Knox being seen with a mop and bucket on the local streets, Sollecito's suddenly leaking sink and on and on, and on.
Again, the whole sordid picture please

EXAMPLE: IIRC, fingerprints of Knox were not found...even in her own room

My belief in a 'clean up' is no less strong than in the *staged* break in.

BTW:
Rather than you losing sleep over the points I choose now not to address, please just peruse the arguments of SomeAlibi, Machiavelli , Fulcanelli, and many other past "PG" personalities who have obliterated with impeccable logic and detail all of the 'points' being dragged out yet again and being tossed at my humble doorstep.

And with that I bid you a good night

There is a fingerprint map at IIP that my computer freezes up on, if somebody can get that in a format other than php, I would appreciate it. I don't recall them finding a lot of usable fingerprints at all which is not really that unusual.

 

[Grinder]

Amanda said in her court testimony that they ate dinner and then the pipe broke.......

Clearly Amanda's and Raffaele's recounting of that night is the single greatest evidence pointing to their guilt of something.

Raf's dad's call is a point of issue for their recounting. I suppose it is possible that Raf washed before and after the dinner but...it's a weak explanation.

What's really hard to understand is why if they did it, they didn't coordinate a better story.

 

[pilot padron]

A promise

Pilot you're a peach!


If you won't tell us the line on what the Chief meant perhaps you could explain why you keep repeating those old canards.

I can't say for certain that R&A didn't have anything to do with the crime, but I can say that the case is very weak and as evidence drops away it would behoove those that are PG to answer basic questions.

Thanks in advance

1) If all of you you stop constantly asking for what I have said 1000 times is "old", I promise not to repeat them.
My arguments for guilt do not alter your obviously well entrenched convictions of innocence.
I am shattered but hardly surprised nor unduly concerned.

2) Your particular attention to detail in your well entrenched 'thoughts' coupled with the "thanks in advance" closing kinda hints to me that you are much more familiar with people, places. and posters on this case than your single digit post tally to date portrays.

3) Guess all that your arguments lack to confirm #2 is the well worn opener: "I at first thought them guilty, but now............................"

 

[HumanityBlues]

Could the truth be in any brighter?

Look, the argument over whether bars have been placed on the window is over. This picture is well documented:

End of story, ok?

And as far as criticizing someone for plastic flowers, that's a little ridiculous. Who cares? They guy was on a tour of kind deeds. I mean, a heroin addict going through withdrawal can actually die. Can you imagine where Curatolo might be today if someone hadn't given him money that day? The guy saved his life.

 

[pilot padron]

Pretty bvious in their words and their PR Supertanker

Clearly Amanda's and Raffaele's recounting of that night is the single greatest evidence pointing to their guilt of something.

Raf's dad's call is a point of issue for their recounting. I suppose it is possible that Raf washed before and after the dinner but...it's a weak explanation.

What's really hard to understand is why if they did it, they didn't coordinate a better story.

Maybe the Marriott mantra that they were just stupid kids, and their own downright self incriminating.. "I was too drugged up to remember much" ...is too obvious for you to "understand"