Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sherlock Holmes said:
Rose, you are definitely one I would say is committed - you want to find the truth.
Click to expand...

Thank you and a "win-win" for me on this one. :blush:

I will have limited computer time the next few weeks but should be up and running again before the next hearing, and will post when I can in the meantime.
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
I really don't doubt TOD was shortly after she returned home, definitely time of the attack - which can cause digestion to stop all together or at least slow down, surely you must know this, no?
Click to expand...


Well, yes, but I'm not sure what your point is. How long do you think the attack went on for? Contrast what you just said with the Official Version, which has Meredith lying around the house for a couple of hours after getting home, doing nothing at all, not using her computer, fiddling with her mobile phone but not making a call, not even to her sick mother whom she had not yet called that day, not taking her washing out of the machine and not even taking off her outdoor clothes. I mean, honestly!

My point, not being a major expert on this case, is that the time of death evidence is incontrovertible. It's a show-stopper. Whatever one decides happened, has to be consistent with that. And as the Massei court convicted on the basis of something quite different, involving a time of death of 11.40pm, then all bets are off.

Sherlock Holmes said:
I know no one here wants to discuss this, nor Rudy's footprints leading out the door as well, but there you go.
Click to expand...


I don't know what you think nobody wants to discuss. You've just said you think Meredith was attacked shortly after she got home. I for one am not disagreeing. Where do you want to go with that?

And I don't know what the problem is with Rudy's footprints. You'll have to explain. As far as I know, he did go out of the door and might well have had blood on his shoes, so where's the problem?

Sherlock Holmes said:
No, My opinion is that both sides have some really good points on this case, anyone on either side who states he is 95 to 100% they were or were not involved, is not worth discussing this case with. Now look how many that leaves.
Click to expand...


I'm stating 100% that Meredith Kercher died not long after she got home and certainly well before 10pm. I'm also seeing a lot of problems with the forensics that ostensibly place either Knox or Sollecito at the scene of the crime.

Again, where do you want to go with that?

Rolfe.
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
I really don't doubt TOD was shortly after she returned home, definitely time of the attack - which can cause digestion to stop all together or at least slow down, surely you must know this, no? I know no one here wants to discuss this, nor Rudy's footprints leading out the door as well, but there you go.

No, My opinion is that both sides have some really good points on this case, anyone on either side who states he is 95 to 100% they were or were not involved, is not worth discussing this case with. Now look how many that leaves.
Click to expand...

What percentage is acceptable for you?
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
I really don't doubt TOD was shortly after she returned home, definitely time of the attack - which can cause digestion to stop all together or at least slow down, surely you must know this, no? I know no one here wants to discuss this, nor Rudy's footprints leading out the door as well, but there you go.
Click to expand...

I want to discuss this. What's the problem with the digestion and the footprints?


Sherlock Holmes said:
No, My opinion is that both sides have some really good points on this case, anyone on either side who states he is 95 to 100% they were or were not involved, is not worth discussing this case with. Now look how many that leaves.
Click to expand...
I disagree. It depends on the quality of argumentation, not the firmness of beliefs.
 
RoseMontague said:
Thank you and a "win-win" for me on this one. :blush:

I will have limited computer time the next few weeks but should be up and running again before the next hearing, and will post when I can in the meantime.
Click to expand...

Oh just be honest with us "Mark" we all know you are busy working on a follow up to Monster of Perugia! PI Machine is never wrong! He is stalking all of us and he has the facts!
 
Rolfe said:
Well, yes, but I'm not sure what your point is. How long do you think the attack went on for? Contrast what you just said with the Official Version, which has Meredith lying around the house for a couple of hours after getting home, doing nothing at all, not using her computer, fiddling with her mobile phone but not making a call, not even to her sick mother whom she had not yet called that day, not taking her washing out of the machine and not even taking off her outdoor clothes. I mean, honestly!

My point, not being a major expert on this case, is that the time of death evidence is incontrovertible. It's a show-stopper. Whatever one decides happened, has to be consistent with that. And as the Massei court convicted on the basis of something quite different, involving a time of death of 11.40pm, then all bets are off.




I don't know what you think nobody wants to discuss. You've just said you think Meredith was attacked shortly after she got home. I for one am not disagreeing. Where do you want to go with that?

And I don't know what the problem is with Rudy's footprints. You'll have to explain. As far as I know, he did go out of the door and might well have had blood on his shoes, so where's the problem?




I'm stating 100% that Meredith Kercher died not long after she got home and certainly well before 10pm. I'm also seeing a lot of problems with the forensics that ostensibly place either Knox or Sollecito at the scene of the crime.

Again, where do you want to go with that?

Rolfe.
Click to expand...


Rolfe - I'm not here to argue anything - no one knows how long the attack took except her killers and apparently the FOAKers, I'm not buying that last group though. I don't believe the official version any more than you do, both side have it wrong.

Here is my problem, Amanda & Raff were convicted of murder, participating in the murder itself, I do not agree with this, and most FOAKers say they should be released because there is not absolute proof of this, here I disagree because I believe there is proof they were somehow involved, they staged the break in, they locked Meredith's door, Amanda accused an innocent man and then left him there while Raff did not say a word about this, but as soon as Rudy is arrest, Raff is worried what he will say.

Amanda and Raff have to come clean, though it may be too late for that already, and they have to pay the price for their involvement.
 
Breaking News

Edited by Gaspode: 
Removed breaches of rules 0 and 12.


Meanwhile, it's worth noting the surprising news that, reportedly, at least two of the West Memphis Three are about to be released from prison (if one is kept in jail, my guess is it will be the mentally slow man the police led into giving a dubious confession).

And it certainly seems possible that Knox and the boyfriend will be the next to be on their ways home. As they most probably should be. If so, Knox should be thankful she wasn't wrongfully convicted in the USA.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sherlock Holmes said:
Rolfe - I'm not here to argue anything - no one knows how long the attack took except her killers and apparently the FOAKers, I'm not buying that last group though. I don't believe the official version any more than you do, both side have it wrong.
Click to expand...


Are you postulating that Meredith was attacked soon after arriving home, but didn't die until much later? I don't think the post mortem evidence will sustain that. In fact I'm pretty sure it won't.

And I don't know how you fit that suggestion into any narrative of what happened in any case. It just doesn't fly, and the fact that nobody has even tried to make anything like that fly in all the changing and varied theories about this case might be a bit of a hint in that department.

Also, I don't know who these FOAKers are. I've met the guilters and a nasty bunch they are on the whole. I haven't seen this "FOAK" campaign they keep talking about.

Sherlock Holmes said:
Here is my problem, Amanda & Raff were convicted of murder, participating in the murder itself, I do not agree with this, and most FOAKers say they should be released because there is not absolute proof of this, here I disagree because I believe there is proof they were somehow involved, they staged the break in, they locked Meredith's door, Amanda accused an innocent man and then left him there while Raff did not say a word about this, but as soon as Rudy is arrest, Raff is worried what he will say.

Amanda and Raff have to come clean, though it may be too late for that already, and they have to pay the price for their involvement.
Click to expand...


They were preliminarily convicted of murdering Meredith at 11.40pm. Meredith didn't die at 11.40pm. Meredith died around 9.20pm, give or take. So if Knox and Sollecito were involved, then you have to figure out how, given that time scale.

I'm not seeing the incontrovertible evidence that anybody staged any break-in. And they are both a couple of complete irredeemable idiots who have said some extraordinarily unwise things, but without evidence, that doesn't make them murderers.

Rolfe.
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
Rolfe - I'm not here to argue anything - no one knows how long the attack took except her killers and apparently the FOAKers, I'm not buying that last group though. I don't believe the official version any more than you do, both side have it wrong.
Click to expand...
How sure are you that Guede didn't act alone?

Sherlock Holmes said:
Here is my problem, Amanda & Raff were convicted of murder, participating in the murder itself, I do not agree with this, and most FOAKers say they should be released because there is not absolute proof of this, here I disagree because I believe there is proof they were somehow involved, they staged the break in, they locked Meredith's door, Amanda accused an innocent man and then left him there while Raff did not say a word about this, but as soon as Rudy is arrest, Raff is worried what he will say.
Click to expand...
I don't think there are proofs of any staging or locking. At least none were presented so far. There are simpler and better explanations for the overnight interrogation statements then some vague involvement, too. But all of this was already discussed, can you add some new argument? Does Guede's footprints fit in here somehow?

Sherlock Holmes said:
Amanda and Raff have to come clean, though it may be too late for that already, and they have to pay the price for their involvement.
Click to expand...
I wonder how sure are you about their involvement? 95%?
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
Rolfe - I'm not here to argue anything - no one knows how long the attack took except her killers and apparently the FOAKers, I'm not buying that last group though. I don't believe the official version any more than you do, both side have it wrong.

Here is my problem, Amanda & Raff were convicted of murder, participating in the murder itself, I do not agree with this, and most FOAKers say they should be released because there is not absolute proof of this, here I disagree because I believe there is proof they were somehow involved, they staged the break in, they locked Meredith's door, Amanda accused an innocent man and then left him there while Raff did not say a word about this, but as soon as Rudy is arrest, Raff is worried what he will say.

Amanda and Raff have to come clean, though it may be too late for that already, and they have to pay the price for their involvement.
Click to expand...

Out of all of your reasons, the only one I would give any credence to is Raff being worried what the "Ivorian" might say.

I don't think you can prove the break-in was staged in any way and in fact it is much more probable it was not staged.

The accusing of Patrik is one of the most easily understood parts of the case IMO because ILE knew about the text exchange and I am certain it was them who suggested him to Amanda. We know for certain ILE formulated their theories early on so what makes you so sure they were not just as insistent with this theory? We also have a good insight into how those interrogations are conducted from Doug Preston and Mario Spezi. It is also highly suspicious these interrogations were not recorded. I think you have to take in the entire scenario before jumping to conclusions; the entire scenario smells pretty rotten on the part of ILE.
 
Katody Matrass said:
How sure are you that Guede didn't act alone?

He didn't lock that door - but I believe he was the lone person who did the murder.

I don't think there are proofs of any staging or locking. At least none were presented so far. There are simpler and better explanations for the overnight interrogation statements then some vague involvement, too. But all of this was already discussed, can you add some new argument? Does Guede's footprints fit in here somehow?

Yes it has and again, I'm not here to argue, I'll offer my opinions though - Rudy's footprints show he did not lock the door in question, in my belief.

I wonder how sure are you about their involvement? 95%?
Click to expand...

I've stated before in this thread, I'ld say about 70 to 75%, I can see ways that they are completely innocent and ways they are completely guilty, but if you look at everything as a whole, they are involved to some degree, what that degree is, is the question....
 
I am a longtime lurker, first time poster. I have been following this case since the beginning and found this thread when it was about to be continued to the second thread b/c it had gotten so long. I googled around to find forums that discussed this case and visited each site and read the evidence, the Massei Report, etc...I at first thought that Amanda and Raffaelle were guilty, but I thought something was just strange about the way the media was presenting the case, so I wanted to dig deeper and get more facts. After finding this thread and reading the links provided for both guilt and innocence, my opinion changed. I now truly believe that they are innocent, and I cannot believe how terrible the case was handled from the beginning. I will say, that I enjoy reading this thread more than some of the others b/c I do feel that there is more civility here, than the site the guilters frequent. Some of the replies that are posted there about others on this site are terrible and talk about not throwing stones when you live in a glass house. Anyhow, thank you to all the regular posters here for all the work you guys put into the translations, explantations, etc...
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
The evidence is in Rudy's left blood stained shoe print that shows he could not have locked the door when he left - that leaves only Amanda and Raff who were there.
Click to expand...

The shoe prints left by Guede show that he could have easily locked the door. No behind the back moves, no special techniques, just stepping out of the room and locking the door.

There is no proof that Amanda and Raffaele were there. None.
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
I've stated before in this thread, I'ld say about 70 to 75%, I can see ways that they are completely innocent and ways they are completely guilty, but if you look at everything as a whole, they are involved to some degree, what that degree is, is the question....
Click to expand...

Believe me I have looked at this case as a whole and there is absolutely no physical proof to suggest they were involved in any way. If I am 150% certain that Amanda and Raffaele are innocent is that too much for you?

They will be released very soon. You can consider my certainty about their release to be very strong as well. When they are finally given their lives back I hope all this percentage stuff is thrown out the window and that common sense prevails. Unfortunately there will always be a small group of people that think they "got away with it" as this is the damage done from wrongful convictions.
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
I've stated before in this thread, I'ld say about 70 to 75%, I can see ways that they are completely innocent and ways they are completely guilty, but if you look at everything as a whole, they are involved to some degree, what that degree is, is the question....
Click to expand...

You seem to be reasoning that because there are 2 sides claiming completely opposing positions, then the truth must be somewhere in the middle. It doesn't follow.

Where do the reasons come from for thinking that Amanda and Raff were "somehow involved"? Why, from the same lying, incompetent crowd who tried to make out they were the killers, that's where. The "staged break-in" and the "accusation" against Patrick Lumumba were both inventions of the police/prosecution as much as the supposed "murder knife" and the "DNA on the bra-clasp".

If you think that the "evidence" against them as the killers is discredited, then you have no reason to think that they were involved, either. They were both at Raff's place the entire time right up until when Amanda went back for a shower, at the time she said she did; and I'm fairly confident this will be proved in the appeal court.
 
Rose

I seem to remember you saying a few weeks ago that AK and RS' statements (or behaviour?) was the only evidence of guilt. Coming from you that would be quite something. Or did I read you wrong.
 
Kaosium said:
You know, someone with a nasty suspicious mind might even wonder if they did cake that floor with Luminol just to see if they could pick up anything they could use against Amanda, having gotten no confession and having to dig up more evidence against Raffaele anyway when the mindless shoeprint error was exposed. The thing is though, if (some of) those prints were highly diluted, perhaps from blood from the bathmat, they'd have had to play with the picture program as they wouldn't have shown up as brightly lit as they did in the crime scene photos. I know absolutely nothing about that, outside this: when I try to enlarge a picture--like for my avatar--that started clearly defined it tends to get all fuzzy, kinda like how those footprints look in the photo. Of course they'd also have been walked on repeatedly....

That would also mean the police used 'evidence' gathered in the second trip to the cottage they must have known wasn't involved in the murder. Kinda like they did with the knife in Raffaele's drawer.
Click to expand...


Did you know that when you edit an image in photoshop it will leave some extra tags behind in the metadata that indicate when it was last edited. If your conspiracy theory were real, one might expect to find such evidence that show the photos were edited before they were made available to the defense and handed to the press.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom