Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Apparently, it's what he thinks happened. Here's another quote where he explains:

I recently posted what I believe is the most likely explanation. It is impossible to ignore that Amanda and Rudy were within a few yards of each other around 8.20pm, corroborated by the cellphone records and Rudy himself. They met up and they arranged to do something later. The reason we will probably never know but this is my belief.

Oh, well . . . if Rudy himself says so, then I guess that seals it.

Using his reasoning . . . it is impossible to ignore that SomeAlibi was within a few yards of the murder scene, corroborated by the photographs snapped by SomeAlibi himself and Rudy would possibly, indeed probably, therefore definitely agree. Therefore, SomeAlibi did it. The reason we will probably never know but this is my belief.
 
Here's yet another, rather amusing, version of what happened during the night of NOV 2nd 2007. This time we have an excellent piece written by no one other then Some Alibi. It's not only filled with errors and some really funny stuff but also completely made up.


Anyone?

This wholly speculative scenario relies on the false premise that Amanda needed cash for drugs, as follows:

I personally believe that Meredith had told Amanda at lunchtime that she had taken the cash out to pay the rent and had asked Amanda for hers, which she did not have. When Amanda met Rudy in the square the first time at around 20.20, I believe that Amanda went to the cottage and "borrowed" Meredith's cash to give to Rudy to help them all score. I personally believe that Rudy's story of Meredith being upset at the cash going missing and calling her a "whore of a doper", while yes a weak alibi for Rudy on the missing cash, is probably true.

I've got Amanda's bank statement. It shows that she withdrew the rent money that weekend. After doing so, she still had over $4,000 in her account. The bank statement also shows her withdrawals during the weeks preceding the murder. The pattern is consistent with a student using her money judiciously to cover ordinary living expenses. She was not withdrawing large sums to support a drug habit.

Mignini went to a lot of trouble to put on witnesses who would say negative things about Amanda - Filomena, Laura, and Meredith's British friends. They did their best to help him. But none of them said that Amanda ever stole from them, or that they were concerned she might steal from them. None of them said Amanda was a heavy drinker or that she used any drugs other than cannabis, which they all used in moderation.
 
Here's yet another, rather amusing, version of what happened during the night of NOV 2nd 2007. This time we have an excellent piece written by no one other then Some Alibi. It's not only filled with errors and some really funny stuff but also completely made up.


Anyone?


This narrative is indeed entirely speculative, fantastical and unsupported. It's also laced with factual and interpretational errors, one of which I wanted to highlight. This particular error demonstrates how ignorance and confirmation bias can combine to result in a stunningly incorrect conclusion.

The error I'm referring to concerns the supposed co-location of Knox and Guede at around 8.00-8.45pm. SA seems to base this entire theory on Guede's account of his whereabouts that evening and Knox's known cellphone location data. The trouble is, he is willfully misinterpreting Knox's cellphone location data to make his "argument". Here's why:

The Massei Report states that when Knox's phone received Lumumba's text message at 8.18pm, the phone was connected to the base station at Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3. Now, let's put to one side for a moment the argument that this base station actually covered Sollecito's apartment*, and suppose that this base station does not provide the apartment with a signal. If that's the case, then it can be assumed that Knox was not in Sollecito's apartment at the time when Lumumba's text was sent to her phone.

But where might she have been? Well, we helpfully get a clue as to the coverage area of that particular base station in the Massei report, when it lists Knox's phone activity from the night before the murder (my bolding):
− 00:57:20: Amanda’s mobile phone sent an SMS, using the cell on Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 (which does not provide coverage to Sollecito’s house, since it pertains to Via Ulisse Rocchi, Piazza Cavallotti, etc. and therefore at the heart of Perugia’s historic center). This consisted of the SMS which the young woman exchanged with Raffaele at the end of the Halloween evening to arrange meeting up with her boyfriend and be accompanied home
(Massei, p322, English trans)


This is interesting. It is basically saying that this particular base station provides coverage to "the heart of Perugia"'s historic centre", including "Via Ulisse Rocchi, Piazza Cavallotti, etc". Now, the historic centre of Perugia, and Piazza Cavallotti, are both a) within the old city walls, and b) pretty much due south from Sollecito's apartment. In fact, Piazza Cavallotti is quite some distance from Piazza Grimana, for example. I would post a Google Earth image to illustrate this, but the detail is hard to make out in smaller images posted here. But if you have Google Earth (or equivalent), you will easily be able to see the distances involved.

So if Massei is to be trusted on its information about the coverage zone of the base station which transmitted Lumumba's 8.18pm text message to Knox's phone, it means that Knox could actually have been situated anywhere within a large area inside the city walls. Yet SA apparently chooses to conclude that the base station data indicates that Knox must have been in the very near vicinity of Guede at this time. He places them both in the vicinity of Piazza Grimana:

we know that she's in the vicinity of Piazza Grimana at the same time Rudy Guede is there because of the cell tower data


(IIRC, SA actually ludicrously hyperbolises this in another post into something along the lines of: "It's proven that Knox and Guede were within feet of each other at this time" :D)

But the cell tower data does not tell us anything of the sort: in fact, it actually suggests that Knox was much further into the centre of old Perugia at this time, rather than anywhere near to Piazza Grimana. I'm afraid this is nothing more than plain, old-fashioned confirmation bias and bad reasoning on behalf of the person who decided that the evidence showed that Knox and Guede were in very close proximity at 8.00-8.45pm that night.


* Even though some (including SA) say that Massei contains an error in linking this particular base station to Sollecito's apartment, the same "error" is actually repeated explicitly three times in the report (my bolding):

− 12.08.44 (lasted 68 seconds) Amanda calls Romanelli Filomena on number 347-1073006; the mobile phone connects to the Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 cell (which covers Sollecito’s house)

− 12:11:02 (3 seconds) the Vodafone number 348-4673711 belonging to Meredith (this is the one [i.e. SIM card] registered to Romanelli Filomena) is called and its answering service is activated (cell used: Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector3)

− 12:11:54 (4 seconds): another call is made towards Meredith’s English mobile phone number (the cell used is the one in Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3, thus compatible with Sollecito’s house)

− 12:12:35 (lasting 36 seconds) Romanelli Filomena calls Amanda Knox (No. 348-4673590); Amanda receives the call connecting to the cell on Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 (still at Raffaele’s house)
(Massei, p323, English trans)


Is it really a repeated error, or does the base station at Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 actually provide signal to Sollecito's apartment?
 
This narrative is indeed entirely speculative, fantastical and unsupported. It's also laced with factual and interpretational errors, one of which I wanted to highlight. This particular error demonstrates how ignorance and confirmation bias can combine to result in a stunningly incorrect conclusion.

The error I'm referring to concerns the supposed co-location of Knox and Guede at around 8.00-8.45pm. SA seems to base this entire theory on Guede's account of his whereabouts that evening and Knox's known cellphone location data. The trouble is, he is willfully misinterpreting Knox's cellphone location data to make his "argument". Here's why:

The Massei Report states that when Knox's phone received Lumumba's text message at 8.18pm, the phone was connected to the base station at Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3. Now, let's put to one side for a moment the argument that this base station actually covered Sollecito's apartment*, and suppose that this base station does not provide the apartment with a signal. If that's the case, then it can be assumed that Knox was not in Sollecito's apartment at the time when Lumumba's text was sent to her phone.

But where might she have been? Well, we helpfully get a clue as to the coverage area of that particular base station in the Massei report, when it lists Knox's phone activity from the night before the murder (my bolding):

(Massei, p322, English trans)


This is interesting. It is basically saying that this particular base station provides coverage to "the heart of Perugia"'s historic centre", including "Via Ulisse Rocchi, Piazza Cavallotti, etc". Now, the historic centre of Perugia, and Piazza Cavallotti, are both a) within the old city walls, and b) pretty much due south from Sollecito's apartment. In fact, Piazza Cavallotti is quite some distance from Piazza Grimana, for example. I would post a Google Earth image to illustrate this, but the detail is hard to make out in smaller images posted here. But if you have Google Earth (or equivalent), you will easily be able to see the distances involved.

So if Massei is to be trusted on its information about the coverage zone of the base station which transmitted Lumumba's 8.18pm text message to Knox's phone, it means that Knox could actually have been situated anywhere within a large area inside the city walls. Yet SA apparently chooses to conclude that the base station data indicates that Knox must have been in the very near vicinity of Guede at this time. He places them both in the vicinity of Piazza Grimana:




(IIRC, SA actually ludicrously hyperbolises this in another post into something along the lines of: "It's proven that Knox and Guede were within feet of each other at this time" :D)

But the cell tower data does not tell us anything of the sort: in fact, it actually suggests that Knox was much further into the centre of old Perugia at this time, rather than anywhere near to Piazza Grimana. I'm afraid this is nothing more than plain, old-fashioned confirmation bias and bad reasoning on behalf of the person who decided that the evidence showed that Knox and Guede were in very close proximity at 8.00-8.45pm that night.


* Even though some (including SA) say that Massei contains an error in linking this particular base station to Sollecito's apartment, the same "error" is actually repeated explicitly three times in the report (my bolding):


(Massei, p323, English trans)


Is it really a repeated error, or does the base station at Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 actually provide signal to Sollecito's apartment?

IIRC, it covers Raffaele's place fine as verified by the cell phone records.
 
Oh, well . . . if Rudy himself says so, then I guess that seals it.

Using his reasoning . . . it is impossible to ignore that SomeAlibi was within a few yards of the murder scene, corroborated by the photographs snapped by SomeAlibi himself and Rudy would possibly, indeed probably, therefore definitely agree. Therefore, SomeAlibi did it. The reason we will probably never know but this is my belief.


As I just posted, this "within yards" stuff is pure nonsense. The base station from which Knox received Lumumba's 8.18pm text covers a vast area, centred on old Perugia. It's therefore actually statistically very unlikely that Knox was anywhere near Piazza Grimana when this text was received, let alone "within yards of Guede". It's total rubbish.
 
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That's interesting. I should have read this before posting my response to Kaosium. It appears that Follain may indeed have derived his quote from a double-translation. But that doesn't explain the pronoun error. I have noticed that Google's translator often uses the male pronoun for female subjects, but never the reverse.

Agreed, I think Follain must have just assumed the person in the story was female, perhaps based on the claim the story was about a woman murdering another woman. As Kaosium said, it also doesn't explain why there's no mention of "Edgar" in the quote, unless it was cut out by the journalists. I'm curious to know whether this was some kind of 'official' translation or just one done by the journalists (it doesn't look like a machine version).

The propagandists in Perugia have gotten a lot of mileage out of translation errors. One classic example involves the diary Amanda wrote in prison, which was confiscated by the police who then exploited it to defame her. Here is Amanda's speculation regarding Meredith's DNA on the kitchen knife:

Raffaele and I have used this knife to cook, and it's impossible that Meredith's DNA is on the knife because she's never been to Raffaele's apartment before. So unless Raffaele decided to get up after I fell asleep, grabbed said knife, went over to my house, used it to kill Meredith, came home, cleaned the blood off, rubbed my fingerprints all over it, put it away, then tucked himself back into bed, and then pretended really well the next couple of days, well, I just highly doubt all of that.

Here's how it came out in the Daily Mail:

I don't remember anything. But I think it's possible that Raffaele went to Meredith's house, raped her, then killed her, and then when he got home, while I was sleeping, he put my fingerprints on the knife.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-killing-Foxy-Knoxy-changes-story--again.html

Barbie Nadeau picked up this quote in one of her articles, and Anne Bremner contacted her to ask that she correct it. Instead of admitting that she got it from the Daily Mail or from someone in Migini's office, Nadeau responded as follows:

While I respect your request to retract the diary excerpt in The Daily Beast article, I wish to clarify that I did not quote page 59 from the 80-page diary you refer to in your press release. I am quoting a subsequent passage from a "memoriale" that has been entered into evidence and that is contained in the 10,000 prosecution page dossier.

Of course, no such "memoriale" actually exists. She's simply lying through her teeth. She does that a lot.

I suppose she could be talking about the second "memoriale" Amanda wrote (I think a few days after she was arrested?). But given that Raffaele's lawyers actually complain that Massei paid too little attention to this second statement - because, they say, it showed Amanda in a good light - I highly doubt there was anything so incriminating in it!

If it isn't in this second 'memoriale', then there's no doubt this is a barefaced lie from Nadeau - I suspect it's as Diocletus said, that since she has no way of defending what she wrote she's simply gesturing to the 10,000 pages and saying "It's in there somewhere, honest". It reminds me of her continued claims about the postal police arrival time, long after Bongiorno's presentation in Court which proved them wrong, and for which Nadeau was supposedly present!
 
Hi Snook1,
That 40 minute pause has been gettin' some attention recently in kooksville .org.
Answering some other stuff: we know that she's in the vicinity of Piazza Grimana at the same time Rudy Guede is there because of the cell tower data (even though it's incorrectly referenced in part in Massei, the evidence was admitted in court). (The 40 minute pause in Amelie is corroborative of her time out of Raffaele's flat). She receives Patrick's message at 20.18 but doesn't reply until 20.35. My theory is she is talking to Rudy in the intervening minutes trying to get him to help her score. He doesn't have anything on him but says he can try and help and they arrange to meet up again in an hours time at 9.30. She wanders back to Raffaele's to give him the good news, texting Patrick back, turning her phone off and being at Raffaele's to answer the intercom at 20.40 to Popovic.


I wonder, haven't these folks ever cuddled and watched a cute movie with a new girlfriend or boyfriend of a few days, and when things got a little hot onscreen, it made you too wanna have some fun? A 40 minute pause surely seems enough time...

L8, RW


PS - My old dog Tang did finally eat late last night,
but gave up his lil' doggie soul and departed this morning. I miss him...
R.I.P. Tang, Tang
 
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Hi Snook1,
PS - My old dog Tang did finally eat late last night,
but gave up his lil' doggie soul and departed this morning. I miss him...
R.I.P. Tang, Tang

Losing a cherished pet is like losing a member of the family. My condolences as well, RW. Hang in there.
 
That's interesting. I should have read this before posting my response to Kaosium. It appears that Follain may indeed have derived his quote from a double-translation. But that doesn't explain the pronoun error. I have noticed that Google's translator often uses the male pronoun for female subjects, but never the reverse.

I think it more likely he got it from the police as he sources it to them in his second piece of September, 28 2008:

John Follain Times 9/28 said:
“I got home when she was still asleep, but after having a shower, while I was in the kitchen, she came out of her room with the blood of her costume (a vampire’s) dripping from her chin,” Knox writes in the Italian police translation.
The graphic way Knox describes Kercher’s bloody chin echoes a story she wrote as part of a creative writing course about one woman raping another which included the passage: “She fell on the floor, she felt the blood on her mouth and swallowed it. She couldn’t move her jaw and felt as if someone was moving a razor on the left side of her face.”

It's the same exact quote, so they must be both sourced to the 'police translation:'

John Follain Times 6/15 said:
In December 2006 she posted a story on MySpace in which a young woman drugs and rapes another woman. It reads in part: “She fell on the floor, she felt the blood on her mouth and swallowed it. She couldn’t move her jaw and felt as if someone was moving a razor on the left side of her face.” Her family claims to have spoken to the teacher who made her write this as a course assignment. She was told to write everything that happens right up to a crime. Curt says: “Amanda was graded down because the story she wrote wasn’t dark enough. It wasn’t what the teacher wanted.” University authorities have banned staff from talking publicly about Knox.

So here he's heard the version the police gave him doesn't match the parents description of what happened. He either attempts to contact U-Wash or already knows they won't comment. He stays with the police version even though the original is online, I can kinda get that, an official source is of course more authoritative than what any clown like me on the internet can find.

However it strongly suggests to me the police deliberately gave him false information, he didn't get it from an Italian newspaper, he stated in the 9/28 Sunday Times piece that it was the police translation.



The propagandists in Perugia have gotten a lot of mileage out of translation errors. One classic example involves the diary Amanda wrote in prison, which was confiscated by the police who then exploited it to defame her. Here is Amanda's speculation regarding Meredith's DNA on the kitchen knife:

Raffaele and I have used this knife to cook, and it's impossible that Meredith's DNA is on the knife because she's never been to Raffaele's apartment before. So unless Raffaele decided to get up after I fell asleep, grabbed said knife, went over to my house, used it to kill Meredith, came home, cleaned the blood off, rubbed my fingerprints all over it, put it away, then tucked himself back into bed, and then pretended really well the next couple of days, well, I just highly doubt all of that.

Here's how it came out in the Daily Mail:

I don't remember anything. But I think it's possible that Raffaele went to Meredith's house, raped her, then killed her, and then when he got home, while I was sleeping, he put my fingerprints on the knife.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-killing-Foxy-Knoxy-changes-story--again.html

Barbie Nadeau picked up this quote in one of her articles, and Anne Bremner contacted her to ask that she correct it. Instead of admitting that she got it from the Daily Mail or from someone in Migini's office, Nadeau responded as follows:

While I respect your request to retract the diary excerpt in The Daily Beast article, I wish to clarify that I did not quote page 59 from the 80-page diary you refer to in your press release. I am quoting a subsequent passage from a "memoriale" that has been entered into evidence and that is contained in the 10,000 prosecution page dossier.

Of course, no such "memoriale" actually exists. She's simply lying through her teeth. She does that a lot.

What if what she's referring to is the police translation? That's what they gave the Daily Mail and that's what's in this mysterious 10k case file I've heard people refer to? That's where John Follain got his 'translation' from, that's where the Times got the outrageously untrue 'clear cut' information about the CCTV video and at least a dozen other instances where they provided (at this point) provably bad information to reporters, as documented on this thread repeatedly?
 
After four threads, I wish someone would post a summary of this whole conversation and start over. No one can read through all that except Data from Star Trek.

Why this conversation as a whole has gone to the lengths it has is itself a somewhat interesting, and multi-faceted, topic.

However a focus strictly on the question of whether Amanda Knox was complicit in the murder that occurred I think can be boiled down to one simple equation:

"An inherently improbable proposition + A dearth of any significant or credible evidence to support it = A reasonable degree of certainty that the proposition is false"

For me, and guided by the principles of this JREF forum, that is the appropriate summary of this case.
 
Sorry to hear about that Randy. Hope you're OK.
Hi Matthew Best,
Thanks, I appreciate that.
I wanna apologize for callin' out PMF as kooksville .org, that was uncalled for. Heck, I've even been saddened for those posters who had lost a luved doggie too over the last few years. Now I am in the same boat...

I wanna try and take my mind off of my little doggie's death today, so before I go and break down his doghouse and then split back to the beach to drink a few brews and shoot the bull with the crew out surfin', well I wanna touch on this a bit more:
Answering some other stuff: we know that she's in the vicinity of Piazza Grimana at the same time Rudy Guede is there because of the cell tower data (even though it's incorrectly referenced in part in Massei, the evidence was admitted in court). (The 40 minute pause in Amelie is corroborative of her time out of Raffaele's flat). She receives Patrick's message at 20.18 but doesn't reply until 20.35. My theory is she is talking to Rudy in the intervening minutes trying to get him to help her score. He doesn't have anything on him but says he can try and help and they arrange to meet up again in an hours time at 9.30. She wanders back to Raffaele's to give him the good news, texting Patrick back, turning her phone off and being at Raffaele's to answer the intercom at 20.40 to Popovic.

As I mentioned above, I really don't see anything sinister about that 40 minute pause, but hey, I don't reside in guilter land.

I can easily see Raff and Amanda, only dating for a few days, pausing that chick flick to, ah, have some fun on a chilly night.
And afterwards? Well let me share a story:

My doggie Tang's Mom was a gal named Wendy who I luved 12 years ago. She worked at an animal birth control joint, where they spayed and neutered and performed abortions on dogs and cats. Tang was from an abortion, the only doggie brought to life, a gift of luv from my girlfriend. A very special suprise, I had to bottle feed the tiny little guy for weeks. Maybe I'll post a photo someday in my avatar.

My gal Wendy was from the other side of the tracks, where the rich folks live. 1st and only rich chick that I dated. She was kinda a strange chick, strange in the sense that she was a clean-freak, so to say. After sex, she always wanted to run into the bathroom and take a shower and rinse off, while I, raised by parents who were hippies, would always try to get her to just hang out afterwards and acccept her body, as sweaty and messy as it was, for she was beautiful. This was a 1st for me, a chick who wanted, no needed to always shower, heck sometimes 3 times a day...

When I thought of this memory a moment ago,
I realized that Amanda was the hippie, and Raff was the rich guy, a preppy. Exactly the opposite of my gal and I. So that was why Amanda answered the door when Jovana Popovic came by, it was because Raff was cleanin' himself up, I bet. That 40 minute pause in the movie was no big deal, in my humble opinion...

See you folks another time,
RW


ETA: Thanks RoseMontague,
I totally agree...
RW
 
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Denied October 2009 request for expertise

I am hoping one of our Italian readers can help me with this passage, it seems to me they are suspecting some more fishiness on the computers:

IV) ESAME DEL PERITO NOMINATO DAL GIP PROFESSOR BERNASCHI CIRCA L’ANALISI DEGLI HARD DISK SEQUESTRATI

Al Prof. Massimo Bernaschi è stata conferita perizia nel corso delle indagini preliminari con il seguente quesito: “presa visione dei computer ad acquisiti agli atti che riterrà necessari, estragga i dati presenti nelle memorie dei computer sequestrati a Sollecito Raffaele, Knox Amanda nonché del computer appartenente a Meredith Kercher e recuperi dai relativi hard disk tutti i dati in essi presenti con la creazione di un clone del singolo hard disk, su idoneo supporto magnetico accerti comunque anche le cause del blocco intervenuto sui computer” come risulta da relazione del 21 marzo 2008 del Prof. Massimo Berneschi al GIP Dott.ssa Claudia Matteini (all.to 12).

Il prof. Bernaschi è stato sentito all’udienza per l’incidente probatorio dell’ 8 aprile 2008, ed ha illustrato le sue conclusioni in merito allo shock elettrico che ha “bruciato” in maniera irrimediabile indicando alcune cause che avrebbero potuto provocare tale gusto tecnico. Ha tuttavia potuto clonare il contenuto degli hard disk di Kercher e di Sollecito, mentre non è stato potuto clonare l’hard disk di Knox. I contenuti dei menzionati hard disk non sono stati analizzati.

I difensori ritengono necessario una integrazione dell’esame del perito alla luce delle contrastanti dichiarazioni dibattimentali rese dai testi della Polizia Postale in merito alla consegna ed agli accertamenti dei personal computer sequestrati agli imputati in particolare gli esami di TROTTA Marco e TRIFICI Claudio del 14 marzo 2009 e GREGORI Mirko. L’utilizzo della macchina Logic Cube come riferito dai testimoni menzionati, non appare descritto nella relazione del Prof. Bernaschi Massimo del 21 marzo 2008 come non sono descritte le attività dei testimoni durante gli esami presso l’istituto del Prof. Bernaschi Massimo.

Si chiede, pertanto, che codesta Ecc.ma Corte voglia disporre l’esame del perito, Prof. Massimo Bernaschi.
 
I think it more likely he got it from the police as he sources it to them in his second piece of September, 28 2008:

It's the same exact quote, so they must be both sourced to the 'police translation:'

He's definitely sourcing the vampire costume to the police. I don't know if the myspace story is included in the same police document and/or if he is purporting to source it to the police. Possibly, he copied the myspace story straight out of Il Messaggero. In either case, he couldn't have checked the original, because the quote is wrong.
 
He's definitely sourcing the vampire costume to the police. I don't know if the myspace story is included in the same police document and/or if he is purporting to source it to the police. Possibly, he copied the myspace story straight out of Il Messaggero. In either case, he couldn't have checked the original, because the quote is wrong.

What I am thinking is both Il Messaggero and John Follain got it from the same source, the police who then compiled it into the legendary 10k page 'case file.' I wonder just how many of these 'poor translations' are actually what the police provided the reporters? Otherwise, why would anyone who speaks English have ever used the 'double-translations' in the first place?

Where else could these reporters get things like the 'gift' note? Only the police had it. They could have gotten the e-mail from her sent file as well. Then with a little 'motivated translating' the more damning versions are produced.

Anyway it's sliced, the article that got the slander charge filed on the parents contained an egregious error either by the writer of the article, or the police. I think with John Follain rescheduling his book release and delaying it about nine months total, it may very be he's realized he was lied to repeatedly and needs to rewrite it.

If just about all the reporters had so much wrong, I'd wonder if that suggests they have a common corrupt source, and might have been too lazy to recheck it all as it was a source with some authority...
 
pilot padron,

IIRC, SomeAlibi acknowledged that the principle of discovery was a valid idea with respect to the forensic files.

IIRC, SA told me they lied therefore they were guilty. I thought that was a rather strange position to take as a defense lawyer, but whatever.
 
What I am thinking is both Il Messaggero and John Follain got it from the same source, the police who then compiled it into the legendary 10k page 'case file.' I wonder just how many of these 'poor translations' are actually what the police provided the reporters? Otherwise, why would anyone who speaks English have ever used the 'double-translations' in the first place?

Where else could these reporters get things like the 'gift' note? Only the police had it. They could have gotten the e-mail from her sent file as well. Then with a little 'motivated translating' the more damning versions are produced.

Anyway it's sliced, the article that got the slander charge filed on the parents contained an egregious error either by the writer of the article, or the police. I think with John Follain rescheduling his book release and delaying it about nine months total, it may very be he's realized he was lied to repeatedly and needs to rewrite it.

If just about all the reporters had so much wrong, I'd wonder if that suggests they have a common corrupt source, and might have been too lazy to recheck it all as it was a source with some authority...


I'm with you: I strongly tend to believe that Follain (and virtually every other journalist covering this case up to the end of the first trial) got nearly all of his "inside information" from police and/or prosecutors. As has been discussed here previously, journos are far, far more likely to cosy up to law enforcement personnel than anyone connected to the defence. It's pretty clear to me that Follain based his reportage articles almost exclusively on the tidbits of juicy information that he was fed by prosecutors/police. The apparent fact is that these prosecutors/police misled Follain (and other journos) with deliberately falsified information about Knox and Sollecito - information that was bound to result in negative press for Knox/Sollecito and positive spin for the prosecution case.
 
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The funny thing is that Google gets the pronouns right, so Follain must have altered them himself! In the article it's not clear why the person is lying on the floor, so I guess he just assumed it was the woman who'd been 'drugged and raped by another woman'. :rolleyes:

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008/06/happiness-in-hell.html

Anonymous said...
In December 2006 she posted a story on MySpace in which a young woman drugs and rapes another woman. It reads in part: “She fell on the floor, she felt the blood on her mouth and swallowed it. She couldn’t move her jaw and felt as if someone was moving a razor on the left side of her face.”

JUNE 27, 2008 12:43 PM
 
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