UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[tsig]

How do you know?



You know the size of a baseball and it's relative motion and trajectory. Since you don't know the size of the purported light you allegedly saw, you don't know how far away it was. You had no reference. You claim you saw a light of unknown size and at an unknown distance.

Looks like you got there first.

In addition you can look at the arm motion of the thrower and gain additional information.

 

[tsig]

I believe the light was about 3 Km away because I could see it go down behind the trees on the other side of the lake[/I] ... how much more obvious could that be ... If you see a bird fly behind a building, the bird has to be at least as far away as the building ... it's just plain logical.

Also just because there are car accidents doesn't change the fact that we can and do make many decisions on the road regularly with perfect precision. Plus for your analogy to be accurate, you'd be implying that all these accidents are all due to drivers seeing something that isn't actually there, but they believe is there for several seconds. How many of all these accidents that you quote are due to hallucinations in healthy unimpaired individuals? Also consider the analogy of playing catch. How many times can you catch a softball that you plainly see coming at you? I used to do it for hours. And suggesting a white sphere and a ball of light aren't similar enough to discern what and where they are is just plain unreasonable. I have no problem with people refusing to believe me because they need to see it for themselves, just don't invent faulty reasons.

j.r.

dd

 

[ufology]

Looks like you got there first.

In addition you can look at the arm motion of the thrower and gain additional information.

I do know about how big it was because I could see it going down between the treetops, the jagged treetop edges blocking the light as it went down into the forest. Pluse the distance was about 3Km, so it's reasonable to estimate that it was about the size of a compact car, I think I used the example of a VW Beetle in another post. Certainly there is a margin of error possible, but not much.

The point here however was that it was suggested that I wouldn't have been able to follow the object because it was unusual and too far away. With respect to these points, the difference between a white sphere that reflects light and a sphere that emits white light is not so dissimilar that one couldn't visually track both trajectories provided they were clearly in view. I've also pointed out that bright lights can easily be seen at distances exceeding those of this sighting.

j.r.

 

[Resume]

I do know about how big it was because I could see it going down between the treetops, the jagged treetop edges blocking the light as it went down into the forest. Pluse the distance was about 3Km, so it's reasonable to estimate that it was about the size of a compact car, I think I used the example of a VW Beetle in another post. Certainly there is a margin of error possible, but not much.

The point here however was that it was suggested that I wouldn't have been able to follow the object because it was unusual and too far away. With respect to these points, the difference between a white sphere that reflects light and a sphere that emits white light is not so dissimilar that one couldn't visually track both trajectories provided they were clearly in view. I've also pointed out that bright lights can easily be seen at distances exceeding those of this sighting.

j.r.

How about that 900 mile long valley? You sticking with that?

 

[ufology]

How about that 900 mile long valley? You sticking with that?

The valley is part of the Rocky Mountain Trench, Check out an article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_Trench

j.r.

 

[AdMan]

How about that 900 mile long valley? You sticking with that?

I also wonder if he got that north/south thing sorted out.

He corrected the first instance on his website where he said the object moved north south, but kept the one later on where he said it shot off to the north. So who knows which one is or was right?

And yes, I still question how he could determine that an object had traveled over 25 kilometers, without being able to see any landmark to gauge the distance (even in a valley 1600 kilometers long ).

Pesky details, who needs to worry about them?

 

[ufology]

I also wonder if he got that north/south thing sorted out.

He corrected the first instance on his website where he said the object moved north south, but kept the one later on where he said it shot off to the north. So who knows which one is or was right?

And yes, I still question how he could determine that an object had traveled over 25 kilometers, without being able to see any landmark to gauge the distance (even in a valley 1600 kilometers long ).

Pesky details, who needs to worry about them?

As mentioned, the object was at altitude but below the mountain peaks and was a bright glowing sphere of light that left a glowing trail in its wake, so for the instant that it accellerated off to the north, there was visually a glowing line of light with a bright glowing ball of light at the front traced in the air in front of the mountains, which are known landmarks and easy to identify on a map.

j.r.

 

[Resume]

The valley is part of the Rocky Mountain Trench, Check out an article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_Trench

j.r.

Uh-uh, you're not getting away with that. The trench is composed of a series of valleys only one of which is involved with your alleged sightings. I don't think you understand any of the distances of which you speak, metric or otherwise.

 

[Resume]

As mentioned, the object was at altitude but below the mountain peaks and was a bright glowing sphere of light that left a glowing trail in its wake, so for the instant that it accellerated off to the north, there was visually a glowing line of light with a bright glowing ball of light at the front traced in the air in front of the mountains, which are known landmarks and easy to identify on a map.

j.r.

Your recall of a sub-ten second observance is amazing! Did you write it down immediately after the experience?

 

[AdMan]

As mentioned, the object was at altitude but below the mountain peaks and was a bright glowing sphere of light that left a glowing trail in its wake, so for the instant that it accellerated off to the north, there was visually a glowing line of light with a bright glowing ball of light at the front traced in the air in front of the mountains, which are known landmarks and easy to identify on a map.

j.r.

You very likely couldn't even see any landmarks 25+ Km away, because for one thing, most if not all of them were probably below the horizon.

Do you have any idea of what the distances you are talking about mean?

Oh, and if the "glowing ball of light" was in front of the mountains, then it was closer to you than the mountains themselves, which means the distance you calculated was wrong anyway.

Still waiting on that Google Earth map you said you wanted to work on. Hope you can produce that so we can better evaluate your report.

At the very least, tell us the "known landmarks" that you identified on the map to allow you to calculate the distance, and your position when you observed the object.

 

[RoboTimbo]

ufology, do you have any extraordinary evidence for your extraordinary claim that this point of light was an ET spaceship? Or is all you have a story?

 

[ufology]

You very likely couldn't even see any landmarks 25+ Km away, because for one thing, most if not all of them were probably below the horizon.

Dude ... they are mountains ... not only are they landmarks, they are the horizon. You can count the peaks and other features, and when you live out there for years like I did you get to know them like you would any other landmark.

j.r.

 

[Resume]

and when you live out there for years like I did you get to know them like you would any other landmark.

j.r.

As long as you can discern direction.

 

[AdMan]

Dude ... they are mountains ... not only are they landmarks, they are the horizon. You can count the peaks, and when you live out there for years like I did you get to know them like you would any other landmark.

j.r.

So which peaks did you see and identified or counted in one second? Point them out on a map, and show where you were standing.

If you are so familiar with the territory it should be easy, dude. Why are you avoiding it?

 

[ufology]

So which peaks did you see and identified or counted in one second? Point them out on a map, and show where you were standing.

If you are so familiar with the territory it should be easy, dude. Why are you avoiding it?

Notice the sarcasm jab above. Of course I didn't count them all in one second. I knew where it was when it started and could see where it had gone out of sight, by comparing the landmarks ( the peaks and surface features ) to a map, I could ascertain the distance.

j.r.

 

[Resume]

Notice the sarcasm jab above. Of course I didn't count them all in one second. I knew where it was when it started and could see where it had gone out of sight, by comparing the landmarks ( the peaks and surface features ) to a map, I could ascertain the distance.

j.r.

So quickly? And remembered so vividly? I'd like to see your notes of the event.

 

[AdMan]

I knew where it was when it started and could see where it had gone out of sight, by comparing the landmarks ( the peaks and surface features ) to a map, I could ascertain the distance.

Help us follow your thinking back then.

Can you post a map, showing where you were standing, and what landmarks you identified after the sighting to calculate distance? We may be able to find a topographer to help us determine if these landmarks would have been visible to you from 25+ Km away, to determine if you identified the right landmarks or if you may have misjudged the distance.

ETA: Also please indicate the movement of the earlier object. I am still trying to figure out which combination of left/right north/south is the right one. Seriously.

 

[23_Tauri]

I do know about how big it was because I could see it going down between the treetops, the jagged treetop edges blocking the light as it went down into the forest. Pluse the distance was about 3Km, so it's reasonable to estimate that it was about the size of a compact car, I think I used the example of a VW Beetle in another post. Certainly there is a margin of error possible, but not much.

I think the part I've highlighted is key. Even before I read your comment above I was going to ask you exactly how dark it was that night. This is a very rural location looking at the Google Earth image, so no light pollution from street lamps. I'm guessing that unless there were clear skies and a full moon it would've been pitch black out there 3km beyond the lake.

So can you confirm that there was sufficient moonlight for you to be sure that the object went down behind the jagged sillouette of the tree-line in the distance, - which would have been against the equally backdrop of the mountain slopes, not against the night sky - and that the ligh/object didn't just go out?

The point here however was that it was suggested that I wouldn't have been able to follow the object because it was unusual and too far away. With respect to these points, the difference between a white sphere that reflects light and a sphere that emits white light is not so dissimilar that one couldn't visually track both trajectories provided they were clearly in view. I've also pointed out that bright lights can easily be seen at distances exceeding those of this sighting.

Yes, lights can be seen at 3km. I watched car headlamps tootle along the road across the loch at nighttime when I was in holiday on the Isle of Skye in Scotland. But I don't recall being able to make out anything at that distance apart from the beam of light; not the car, the surrounding countryside, nor the horizon where the heather moor met the sky. However, with more moonlight I may have been able to discern the horizon but not, I think, the top of a tree-line.

 

[ufology]

I think the part I've highlighted is key. Even before I read your comment above I was going to ask you exactly how dark it was that night. This is a very rural location looking at the Google Earth image, so no light pollution from street lamps. I'm guessing that unless there were clear skies and a full moon it would've been pitch black out there 3km beyond the lake.

The whole thing was a ball of light so it wasn't headlamp size, more like a headlamp the size of a whole car, but with an odd glow that is hard to describe ... it was bright, but not sharp or blinding, a quality of light very similar to glow stick light ... but blue-white and much brighter. As it approached the top of the trees you could see the tree tops. They weren't really disctinct at that distance, but you could see them well enough to tell they were tall firs, and as it settled into the forest between them the light from the object filtered out from between them. So I knew for sure it had gone down in the forest on the other side of the lake.

I see similar effects here regularly from car headlamps on a road that runs through the Tsu Tina Nation ( native land ) across from my home. The cars are way over there going along a road between the trees. Plus I saw the object four times in total that night. Three of us saw it the first time. Two of us the second, and me the last two times. ( The girls had dozed off by then ). When it came up the last time, it was getting light and the landscape was plainly visible. This thing, whatever it was, wasn't "one of ours". There is just no way.

After the sighting, I started asking around and I found out that other people had reported similar objects out there in the past. The valley has plenty of weird stories, and since I lived there for several years I was lucky enough to experience some of the phenomena.

j.r.

 

[Stray Cat]

ufology: Could you see the surface of the lake from where your sighting occurred?