Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[bucketoftea]

Kompo,


John Kercher is writing a children's book based upon the

bedtime stories he used to tell Meredith. The 'rumours'

will be about this. It's something you would know if you had actually read the articles you say you are so offended by.

 

[Diocletus]

That's tough luck, then.

Your list above just sounds like Maresca was doing his job well.

Sounds more to me like he's the lawyer equivalent of a cheap tart. But even cheap tarts can be given a job to do, I guess.

 

[Antony]

Sure, not a nice thought.

However, I feel confident that my daughters would not fall into the same traps that Knox and Sollecito fell into.

I think others have said enough to show that this is a rather naive view.

How about this secondary question: how would you feel if one of your daughters was murdered, and the police bungled the investigation, wrongly accused one of her friends and got them convicted of the crime?

 

[Diocletus]

John Kercher is writing a children's book based upon the bedtime stories he used to tell Meredith. The 'rumours' will be about this.

It's something you would know if you had actually read the articles you say you are so offended by.

Now that's a nice way to make a memory for someone. As opposed to, say, other people who think it's a good idea to make hateful postings about innocent people on an internet hate board allegedly "in memory" of someone they never knew.

 

[Diocletus]

However, I feel confident that my daughters would not fall into the same traps that Knox and Sollecito fell into.

Everyone would say that about their kids. But not everyone would be right.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

a race to the bottom

That's tough luck, then.

Your list above just sounds like Maresca was doing his job well.

bucketoftea,

Please explain precisely what you think that Maresca's job is.

If the forensics in this case are used as a model for the rest of the world, the forensic scientists responsible will lead us all in a race to the bottom. The failure to provide the defense with the forensics records always was indefensible, but with the release of the Conti-Vecchiotti report, it becomes obvious why it was done. Their failure to wrap the mop correctly, use disposable tweezers instead of dirty gloves, change booties, etc. is a training film of what not to do. Ms. Stefanoni spoke falsely with respect to how much DNA was on the clasp and misleadingly about the follow-up blood tests. That is what Maresca has said is teaching the rest of the world how to do forensics.

Maresca said of Conti and Vecchiotti, "I was surprised that these experts were so certain, and gave such strong, drastic opinions, given that they don’t have the same number of years of experience under their belt," Ms. Stefanoni only has a bachelor's degree. Maybe that is enough to identify corpses from a tsunami, but Conti and Vecchiotti have much better credentials.

If one really wants to get to the bottom of the case, one should open up the knife. Ditto for the putative semen stain. Has Maresca ever asked for the stain to be tested? Maresca is not exactly indifferent to the truth; he seems to be working against its coming out.

Your defense of Maresca is bereft of specifics. I can appreciate why that must be so under the circumstances.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

a teachable moment

The Maguire Seven acquittal rested to a large extent on examination of the proper lab notebooks that were used at the time showing a lot of exculpatory evidence that had never been shown to the defence or the court. When did the lab stop using proper notebooks (which make it very difficult to add or remove pages without this being obvious)? Er, after the Maguire Seven difficulty....

So there we have an example of great scientific standards in a completely different jurisdiction. It can happen anywhere.

Rolfe.

Rolfe,

What a great example for those of us who teach students how to keep a good laboratory notebook (they don't always see the point). I only gave it a quick read-through, but I am surprised that thin layer chromatography (TLC) would be the sole technique used to identify nitro-glycerine in the Ward case. Careless gas chromatography work which misidentified an unknown serum substance as ethylene glycol nearly put Patricia Stallings away for life.

 

[LondonJohn]

Kompo,


John Kercher is writing a children's book based upon the

bedtime stories he used to tell Meredith. The 'rumours'

will be about this. It's something you would know if you had actually read the articles you say you are so offended by.

Well, Mr Kercher may well be attempting to publish such a book. But there have also long been rumours - seemingly based on fairly solid ground - that he is also planning to write a book about the events of November 2007 onwards.

Here, for example, is an article from Mr Kercher's local newspaper, written on the day of the Massei verdicts:

http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/ne...murder_leaves__hole_in_our_lives__say_family/

It contains the following passage:

Her father John Kercher, a journalist, is writing a book about the murder to try and recoup some of the legal costs relating to her case.

Perhaps before leaping in with the insults you'd be better advised to check the facts more fully......

 

[Diocletus]

Well, Mr Kercher may well be attempting to publish such a book. But there have also long been rumours - seemingly based on fairly solid ground - that he is also planning to write a book about the events of November 2007 onwards.

Here, for example, is an article from Mr Kercher's local newspaper, written on the day of the Massei verdicts:

http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/ne...murder_leaves__hole_in_our_lives__say_family/

It contains the following passage:




Perhaps before leaping in with the insults you'd be better advised to check the facts more fully......

Wow. That's VERY interesting.

 

[Diocletus]

Here, for example, is an article from Mr Kercher's local newspaper, written on the day of the Massei verdicts:

http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/ne...murder_leaves__hole_in_our_lives__say_family/

How's this quote from Meredith's mom for damning with faint praise:

"If the evidence has been presented then yes, you have to agree with that verdict. It's difficult to say, but at the end of the day you have to go on the evidence because there's nothing else."

Umm. What if (i) the evidence hadn't all been presented because the cops destroyed/hid it, and (ii) the evidence that was presented all goes away. Then you have . . . "nothing else." Right on.

 

[Skwinty]

That's the point; most of his statements are subject to dispute. And so others should likewise be permitted to dispute them until and beyond any bovine homecoming.

I agree.

The statements I referred to are:

1. The fact that Meredith dressed as a vampire at Halloween.
2. That Sollecito had Japanese manga comics that described the rape and killing of female vampires.
3. Meredith was killed on the eve of the Day of the Dead, November 2.

Are those statements factually correct?

Did he say that these statements are evidence of Sollecitos guilt?

It's very easy to say that with hindsight, isn't it? Nevertheless, we can hope that Knox and Sollecito's example will be instructive to others; hopefully your daughters know, for example, never to talk to the police, certainly without a lawyer. (Hat tip to Rhea on IIP for the video.)

Well, the hindsight bit applies to everyone doesn't it?

Fortunately my daughters have the sense to realise that anything they say may be used as evidence against them.

I was a tough but fair father, .

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Well, Mr Kercher may well be attempting to publish such a book. But there have also long been rumours - seemingly based on fairly solid ground - that he is also planning to write a book about the events of November 2007 onwards.

Here, for example, is an article from Mr Kercher's local newspaper, written on the day of the Massei verdicts:

http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/ne...murder_leaves__hole_in_our_lives__say_family/

It contains the following passage:




Perhaps before leaping in with the insults you'd be better advised to check the facts more fully......

Okay so in the past 2 years since the article was written has Mr Kercher written a book about the events surrounding his daughters murder?

 

[Skwinty]

How's this quote from Meredith's mom for damning with faint praise:

"If the evidence has been presented then yes, you have to agree with that verdict. It's difficult to say, but at the end of the day you have to go on the evidence because there's nothing else."

Umm. What if (i) the evidence hadn't all been presented because the cops destroyed/hid it, and (ii) the evidence that was presented all goes away. Then you have . . . "nothing else." Right on.

Well, you need to wait for the court to pronounce that and then hear what the Kerchers have to say.

 

[Skwinty]

Well, Mr Kercher may well be attempting to publish such a book. But there have also long been rumours - seemingly based on fairly solid ground - that he is also planning to write a book about the events of November 2007 onwards.

What is wrong with that?

If his book is factually correct then why shouldn't he try and recoup some of his money.

You will not know that of course until he publishes his book.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

My opinion is a simple one, until the verdict of this appeal has been rendered all of the families connected with Meredith’s murder have every right to speak to media about their respective views, I doubt that any of their opinions will have any impact on the verdict.

 

[Skwinty]

I think others have said enough to show that this is a rather naive view.

No, I think it is only you who mentions the word naive.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

No, I think it is only you who mentions the word naive.

Indeed.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

manga mania

The statements I referred to are:

1. The fact that Meredith dressed as a vampire at Halloween.
2. That Sollecito had Japanese manga comics that described the rape and killing of female vampires.
3. Meredith was killed on the eve of the Day of the Dead, November 2.

Are those statements factually correct?

Did he say that these statements are evidence of Sollecitos guilt?

Skwinty,

If they are not evidence of Sollecito's guilt in Mr. Kercher's mind, why would he bring them up? Someone here linked to one of the manga comics that Sollecito possessed (IIRC), and it struck some as not being out of the mainstream. It was violent (someone's limb was sliced off), but I don't recall whether or not someone was killed. Long ago I linked to an article in the Economist that touched upon manga: "In Japan manga is a mainstream medium, with sales of magazines and books amounting to around $5 billion a year. Though many are juvenile, violent or pornographic, others are intricate narratives skilfully illustrated and meant to educate as much as to entertain. They are increasingly popular abroad and starting to make their way into museum exhibitions—though in Japan itself they are still given short shrift as an art form."
EDT
As to the accuracy of Mr. Kercher's possible book, yes let's wait. However, the accuracy of his articles does not give one cause for optimism. FWIW I think any errors he makes should be corrected, but gently.

 

[LondonJohn]

Okay so in the past 2 years since the article was written has Mr Kercher written a book about the events surrounding his daughters murder?

I imagine that he would have been advised by his lawyer (and probably also by any publisher) to wait until the trial processes were all concluded before publishing such a book.

Perhaps his recent articles in UK newspapers might be evidence that he was indeed given such advice, but that maybe he can't help himself from piling onto Knox and Sollecito in other ways (i.e. newspaper articles). Or maybe Mr Kercher decided, on reflection, not to write a book about the case. Or maybe the rumours were all wrong, and Mr Kercher had never had any plans to write such a book. But in the context of the discussion that was taking place here, it's irrelevant: the fact is that there were rumours that Mr Kercher was writing a book about the case - contrary to certain posters' assertions.

 

[Skwinty]

If they are not evidence of Sollecito's guilt in Mr. Kercher's mind, why would he bring them up? Someone here linked to one of the manga comics that Sollecito possessed, and it struck some as not being out of the mainstream. It was violent (someone's limb was sliced off), but I don't recall whether or not someone was killed.

I suppose it is human nature to read a book by it's cover, suffer from confirmation bias and all the other human weaknesses.

If Knox and Sollecito are acquitted because there is no reasonable doubt, then justice will have been served. Even if they were really guilty.

If there is reasonable doubt and the accused stay in prison then justice will have been served. Even if they were really innocent.

I know that the system is not perfect but it is more right than wrong.

Hopefully the youth of today will bear Knox and Sollecito in mind when they do the stupid things they are wont to do.

I always say that wisdom is wasted on old people and youth is wasted on young people. It should be the other way around.