John Edward in person

[John Albert]

I have seen Derren Brown fan out a complete deck of cards and ask Stephen Fry to run his eyes over them and mentally remember one of the cards while Derren's back was turned. He then immediately picked the card Fry was thinking.

I have seen him ask Stephen Merchant to think of the word 'yes' or 'no' and successfully pick which it was five or six times in a row.

I have seen him point out a location on a map of London that a television host was thinking about.

I have seen him ask a woman to think of any letter in the alphabet while he wrote his prediction on a card that he then sealed in an envelope. When she announced the letter she had in mind, he pulled the card out of the envelope and showed that he had guessed correctly.

I have seen him give cold readings that looked and sounded exactly like John Edward's readings and then reveal to his audience that he is not a psychic.


I could pick how he did the last two tricks. I have no idea how he did the others. It certainly doesn't mean that he was using real magic for the first three and mentalism tricks for the last two.

Stephen Fry, Stephen Merchant, and the TV host could very well have been in on the trick.

 

[GrandMasterFox]

Stephen Fry, Stephen Merchant, and the TV host could very well have been in on the trick.

Or you know... The simple miracle power of editing.

Derren Browne is known for using editing tricks.
Sometimes when you see someone saying "yes" on something is when he said "yes" to a completely different question and the editing fits it in to give the audience at home a different impression...

 

[Debaser]

Interesting view but an alternative perspective would be that the spirit would not want to interfere with another's pathway or earthly experiences. Why do we think that a deceased person's work or journey ends when they die and their sole interest is contacting the living?

That's fair enough. But, if there was some lasting spiritual life after your death, and if you could therefore mollify the grief of your relatives and friends in some way, wouldn't you at least try?

Or would you sit back and watch, just so they could have the experience?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Or you know... The simple miracle power of editing.

Derren Browne is known for using editing tricks.
Sometimes when you see someone saying "yes" on something is when he said "yes" to a completely different question and the editing fits it in to give the audience at home a different impression...

Fine. But what about Derren Brown?

 

[Stray Cat]

This:

The claim is that he is a fraud. I am simply asking for proof. Mr. Zwinge's "expose'" falls far short of the level of proof, where he uses only one reading while conspicuously ignoring thousands.

Contradicts this:

As for JE's claim of mediumship, all one need do is simply see him for objective evidence to satisfy the burden of proof.

Going to see JE's show could only ever prove that the show you went to see was a con trick, so you'd still (according to your logic) be ignoring the thousands of others.

You're not going to get any extra bums on seats by touting the live shows here.

 

[Stray Cat]

Or you know... The simple miracle power of editing.

Derren Browne is known for using editing tricks.
Sometimes when you see someone saying "yes" on something is when he said "yes" to a completely different question and the editing fits it in to give the audience at home a different impression...

No?.... A magician using tricks!!! Whatever next.

 

[Js1981]

I love Brown tho.
The things he does are extraordinary.
I wouldn't go as far as saying that he uses editing and such. His trick don't always work and you get to see only the successful attempts, that is the thing.
He is very creative and strong on proving his point, not always work.
He builds his trick backwards - first he knows the effect, then he works on the cause.
What you see in the show - he works with a theater writer to write what audience should see and think while he does usually a fairly easily explainable trick.

I love his hypnosis and persuasion technics.
Do you remember his 'gift' trick?
He bought a random thing and persuaded guests that it was what they wanted to get. He said himself all his tricks are based on that.

 

[seacrest]

It occurred to me a several days ago, and without checking posts for nearly as long, it would be relevant to share the following personal short bio. I was raised in a church going family. At a young age I rejected religion because it required faith. What I require is evidence (however you choose to define),(how do you materially measure the immaterial? at least to this phenomenon) of consciousness existing outside the brain.The first evidence presented when my then wife and I where recently separated.I was driving by her apartment, 7 miles from my house, at about midnight, when, for various reasons, I thought she was cheating on me. I panicked, my heart pounded out of my chest,feeling betrayed I kept driving, I continued driving around town, avoiding her area. At 4 or 5 am, returning home, driving into my village, I noticed the lights on at my brothers house, and in the driveway, to my surprise, my wife's car. She was inside talking to my brother in their usual lively fashion as he ironed his clothes for work.I said little, nothing of where I was. After awhile my wife and I went to my house. Just as we lay down she distressingly exclaimed " I had a horrible dream about you." We never have had any similar,of any kind,experience together, before or after.

The other experience was subtle by comparison, though more profound, occurring just before waking, when we're open, before the mind fills with thoughts. No, it was not a hallucination. As I was the only person involved, I will not include. Except to say it pertained to my issue laden girlfriend, and by extension our relationship, her soon to be dead father, and a sizable inheritance. Before anyone attempts to dismiss or deny the preceding, consider this: Belief in nothing, is a belief.

I was led by these experiences to investigate, first hand, claims of medium ship. This year I had 2 opportunities. JE being the 2nd. The first providing more overall information and "insight" to relationships. She is noted for working with the police and the families of victims and missing persons. Perhaps because of the preceding bio, this (healthy) skeptic (a person who questions the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual) takes exception to empirical skeptics, who fail to just show up. before making a bold claim...........................................................................................

 

[Ladewig]

thank you.

 

[Pixel42]

What I require is evidence

You're not going to find any by going to see entertainers like John Edwards perform. All you're going to see is someone using well understood techniques like cold reading to fool their audience.

The first providing more overall information and "insight" to relationships. She is noted for working with the police and the families of victims and missing persons.

There is no documented case of information provided by such a person ever being responsible for the location of a missing person.

 

[GrandMasterFox]

No?.... A magician using tricks!!! Whatever next.

Yes, he's using tricks. But people often have a misunderstanding on what exactly those tricks are. How many people still think Derren is using NLP and all sorts of psychobabble crap, when the answer is far simpler?

I love Brown tho.
I wouldn't go as far as saying that he uses editing and such. His trick don't always work and you get to see only the successful attempts, that is the thing.

Not entirely true. He does indeed using editing tricks.
Simplest example would be his lottery "predicition" trick.

He said himself all his tricks are based on that.

He also said that his lottery trick had no camera stunts which is a flat out lie. He said his poker trick was based on psychology when it has nothing to do with it and it's a slight of hands trick.

Magicians do use lies and misdirection, you know.
That includes in their "explanation" of things.

 

[Resume]

The first providing more overall information and "insight" to relationships. She is noted for working with the police and the families of victims and missing persons.

Noted by whom?

 

[Robert Oz]

Stephen Fry, Stephen Merchant, and the TV host could very well have been in on the trick.

Or you know... The simple miracle power of editing.

No?.... A magician using tricks!!! Whatever next.

Yes, he's using tricks. But people often have a misunderstanding on what exactly those tricks are. How many people still think Derren is using NLP and all sorts of psychobabble crap, when the answer is far simpler?

I suppose this sort of thing makes the analogy even stronger.

It's very common for mentalism tricks to rely on a gap in knowledge between the performer and the audience. The audience may think the performer is doing one thing and the performer may tell the audience he is doing something else, while all along the performer is doing something different entirely.

Yes, Derren may tell his audience he is doing NLP when he is using some sleight of hand. This is no different to John Edward telling his audience he is using psychic powers when he is using cold reading.

The point remains that Derren performs much more impressive feats than John Edward and even mimicks John Edward's techniques with similar results, but admits he is not psychic.

The question remains for seacrest:

If John Edward and Derren Brown are indistinguishable in their performance, how does one go about determining which is the genuine psychic? Are we forced to accept an extraordinary claim on the perceived honesty of the claimant?

 

[seacrest]

Noted by whom?

I saw her on video with tv interviewer, etc. Am researching.

 

[seacrest]

If John Edward and Derren Brown are indistinguishable in their performance, how does one go about determining which is the genuine psychic?

short answer: in person

 

[Resume]

short answer: in person

Care to expound?

 

[Pixel42]

short answer: in person

Almost everybody can be fooled by a good magician in person, just ask those who've seen Derren Brown or David Copperfield perform in person and still haven't got the slightest idea how they do it.

That's why someone who had genuine paranormal abilities would need to demonstrate them under conditions where other magicians had made sure that none of the tricks they use can be employed. That's what the JREF $1m challenge does, and that's why performers like John Edwards won't take it.

 

[Mouldy Cheeses]

Re-railing thread....

I wonder how many "psychics" search facebook for tidbits of information about their victims ..um subjects?
I am sure people like John Edward has a army of researchers typijg away madly in the background inputting into search engines names from those cards they seem to collect form victims/people wanting to get in to witness these spectacles.

This comes from something that happened recently to a friend... a message was posted on their facebook wall about a aged family member departing this life ... it was there a week before the "departed" saw it...and contacted my friend to advise that she had only passed to the other side of the street to buys a lotto ticket. Seems the person who put the post up had made amistake .

But then another friend contacted them all saying it was true... this person had passed away because at a recent psychic reading she had ( and paid for) the psychic passed on a message from this "departed one". As the persons surname was somehwat unusual and possibly unique, it would habe been relatively easy for any psychic to google up.

 

[Robert Oz]

short answer: in person

Are you suggesting that you would be able to 'see through' a reading made by Derren Brown or Ian Rowland (who have fooled many people 'in person', but have had the decency to admit that they aren't really psychic)?

What about the people who have seen John Edward in person and recognise his cold reading techniques? There are many out there.

Does that mean Edward is a genuine psychic to those who see him live and believe, but is a fake to those who see him live and don't? Are both these points of view equally true?

 

[GrandMasterFox]

short answer: in person

So going by your assertion here, you're saying that no person ever fell into a scam when he talked to the scammer in person?

Are all fraud victims at fault because they never met the guy in person?
You think they all did it over the phone? Over email?

There are tons of scams going on every single day, from psychics, miracle healers, psychobablelrs, new agers or just plain old fraud of some super secret stock tip.

What do you think is more likely?
That they never met people in person?
Or that a lot of them did meet in person and were still incapable of knowing when someone is pulling one over them?