"Normalizing" the Aspergers child or adult - more harm than good?

[Zelenius]

As a person who almost certainly falls on the autism spectrum, I am tired of various misunderstandings about this condition. The most alarming of them all is that we should be "normalized" and this can be achieved by forcing us into social situations in which we feel very uncomfortable. Although I do not have any evidence, I personally believe that this very often does more harm than good. At least in my case and other cases of which I am aware, it may have backfired.

The end result of all the forced "friendships", being forced to play team sports, and being forced to be in the school play was a lot of resentment and anxiety and sometimes vomiting. I don't think these helped "normalize" me at all; indeed, I no longer believe I have anything in need of "normalizing". I think most people, the "neurotypicals" socialize too much or talk nonsense. While I am over the resentment and anxiety from all this, I feel it is usually wrong to force children with Aspergers, autism or "loner" tendencies to socialize. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't believe excessively shy children or children with no friends shouldn't be helped, it's just that I disagree with the common approach and I think to suggest they are somehow "diseased" is reprehensible.

I wasn't gifted, but I always felt I overcompensated for my "problems" with my intense interests in geography and science, although my grades overall were mediocre to poor(I usually learn better on my own than in classrooms). In grammar school, my teachers were often astonished how I did on geography tests and science tests, since in my spare time I would stare at maps for several hours or read geography books. I was also the top chess player or second best chess player in high school(but always first in my age group).

Rather than focus on my strengths, it seemed everyone wanted to focus more on my alleged weaknesses - no friends, hardly ever talks to anyone, doesn't pay attention in class(unless it was interesting), lacks assertiveness, etc. For some reason, no one ever made the connection between these "issues" and how I would frequently vomit in school, rub my hands obsessively due to anxiety, get all bent out of shape due to loud noises or loud music, among other things. Not part of a diseased brain, just part of who I am. I also have a very strong sense of smell.

Personally, and I have no hard evidence, I believe that forced socialization of people like me mostly backfires. It was only in the past 2 years that I read about Asperger Syndrome and High Functioning Autism and realized it matched me almost perfectly(although I had heard about it well before this, I initially strongly resisted the idea I had anything like Aspergers or autism). Now in adulthood, I still have almost no close friends and I am still shy and socially awkward. I went to college briefly but dropped out due to poor grades, and lack of interest. Job situation is okay but could be better. I cannot picture myself marrying or having kids, and this is fine by me. I don't consider this to be a disease but more a set of tendencies, so it doesn't require "treatment". Overall I am in very good health and my physical fitness level is nearly that of an elite athlete(because I am no longer forced to play sports I am terrible at against my will).

But let this discussion not be about me, but about whether or not forced socialization is a good way to "normalize" or "treat" those with Asperger or mild autism tendencies or if the entire philosophy behind the idea that this needs "treating" is wrong.

 

[PixyMisa]

Yes.

Helping kids (and adults) learn how to deal with "normals" is one thing. Forcing them into activities that cause them nothing but distress is another.

 

[Mark6]

Yes.

Helping kids (and adults) learn how to deal with "normals" is one thing. Forcing them into activities that cause them nothing but distress is another.

Agree completely. The only thing I learned from playing team sports is how much I hate them. Fortunately my parents got the clue pretty quickly, and stopped trying.

 

[luark]

I agree that trying to push children as you describe and concentrate on their weaknesses is mistreatment, especially if they find it to be mistreatment and rebel against it later.
It's not clear whether you're describing mistreatment by your parents or by the school system - if it's by your parents, it may well be the tip of the iceberg.
I went through intense psychological changes when I quit gluten, dairy and some other foods. Both my father and I were sensitive to loud noises. My father would go into a rage if we made noise during his midday nap. And for me later, it would feel like loud music would go jangling and ringing around in my head. I thought that might be from inflammation in my nose and sinuses. I got far more sociable after quitting the foods - I enjoy a lot of casual conversations, now. It was a massive relief from anxiety. I used to hold onto my words, they would sit in a state of unease in a waiting room in my mind before they could come out of my mouth, and now they just flow out. I used to have an unpleasant compulsive fascination with visual graphics, like in advertising, and I would have to stand and look at them, feeling bored on some level at the same time.
And I understood other people better after quitting the foods. I got that people are social creatures and they react based on a lot of subtle perceptions that have nothing do with anyone's notion of how people ideally should treat each other. And that social interactions hinge on little things that happen between people. One social skill that I didn't have and don't know that I have now, is picking out what people are saying against a loud background, like in a disco or a loud party.
My experience on gluten was fascinating in many ways, but there were so many terrible parts too, I would never go back.
My parents speculated that I might be autistic when I was about two years old. But they generally tended to pathologize me, and I was never diagnosed with anything like that.

 

[Mark6]

Overall I am in very good health and my physical fitness level is nearly that of an elite athlete(because I am no longer forced to play sports I am terrible at against my will).

Out of curiousity, what do you do for exercise? I swim and scuba dive; I used to do martial arts before a knee injury made it impossible. (And I might add, my father used to denigrate my interest in martial arts and useless and insular -- unlike basketball )

 

[quarky]

I never considered that I have Asperger-like symptoms, yet when ever I hear about them, I fit the bill.
Hated team sports; did fine in individual athletics, even if there was a team; as in cross country; swimming (not relays) and gymnastics.
Hated school; would get spontaneous nose-bleeds if called upon.
Could not bear the sound and feel of chalk on the chalk board, even though I was gifted in math at an early age. To this day, I can't bare the feel, sound, or sight of chalk and a chalk board.
I was so painfully shy as a kid that I compensated by being a clown.

 

[roger]

"Normalize" obviously doesn't work, but I think it is wise to work with the child to teach them coping skills and social skills.

 

[jiggeryqua]

I don't consider this to be a disease but more a set of tendencies, so it doesn't require "treatment".

Asperger-like symptoms

It's not a disease. Language is a minefield these days, eh As Stewart Lee quips: "It's political correctness gone mad - you can't even scrawl racial epithets on someone's car with faeces anymore".

 

[quarky]

It's not a disease. Language is a minefield these days, eh As Stewart Lee quips: "It's political correctness gone mad - you can't even scrawl racial epithets on someone's car with faeces anymore".

I agree. And it seems a pity to destroy a child's natural gifts by forcing them into normal behavior.
To me, their is nothing normal about football or boxing.
Perhaps the issue is somewhat analogous with dealing with homosexuality, from the straight perspective?

 

[Trakar]

Yes.

Helping kids (and adults) learn how to deal with "normals" is one thing. Forcing them into activities that cause them nothing but distress is another.

But even for "normal's" life is full of large amounts of distress and upset. It isn't so much about learning how to deal with other people, etc., it is about learning how to deal with the distress that is a normal part of everyday life for many if not most people.

 

[jiggeryqua]

But even for "normal's" life is full of large amounts of distress and upset. It isn't so much about learning how to deal with other people, etc., it is about learning how to deal with the distress that is a normal part of everyday life for many if not most people.

And at the same time, living in a way that attempts to reduce distress for all. I can be woefully pessimistic and occasionally suicidal, but it's never occured to me to develop a social philosophy that suggests we abandon all hope.

Life is distress, therefore why bother inventing braille or training guide dogs? Tough ****, blind folk. Why build access ramps for public buildings? Get over it, crips, we all suffer. Do you know you can't even scrawl racial epithets on someone's car with faeces anymore without some cry-baby whining about it? It's distress, get used to it.

 

[Mark6]

But even for "normal's" life is full of large amounts of distress and upset. It isn't so much about learning how to deal with other people, etc., it is about learning how to deal with the distress that is a normal part of everyday life for many if not most people.

So how did forcing me to play basketball teach me anything about "distresses that are a normal part of everyday life"?

 

[Mark6]

And at the same time, living in a way that attempts to reduce distress for all. I can be woefully pessimistic and occasionally suicidal, but it's never occured to me to develop a social philosophy that suggests we abandon all hope.

Life is distress, therefore why bother inventing braille or training guide dogs? Tough ****, blind folk. Why build access ramps for public buildings? Get over it, crips, we all suffer. Do you know you can't even scrawl racial epithets on someone's car with faeces anymore without some cry-baby whining about it? It's distress, get used to it.

I fail to see the connection between OP and what you are saying.

 

[jiggeryqua]

I fail to see the connection between OP and what you are saying.

That's because it's a direct response to TShaitanaku's post, as indicated by my having quoted it in my post. TShaitanaku's post responds to a point in the OP. Does it make more sense to you in that context?

 

[Mark6]

That's because it's a direct response to TShaitanaku's post, as indicated by my having quoted it in my post. TShaitanaku's post responds to a point in the OP. Does it make more sense to you in that context?

I suppose. Except...

But even for "normal's" life is full of large amounts of distress and upset. It isn't so much about learning how to deal with other people, etc., it is about learning how to deal with the distress that is a normal part of everyday life for many if not most people.

I completely disagree with TShaitanaku that "normalizing" Aspies is about "learning how to deal with the distress that is a normal part of everyday life". Assuming that's what he is saying.

That MAY be the intent (although I do not think so) of "normalizing", but if so, then it completely fails.

 

[temporalillusion]

So here's a question.. was the response to the forced socialization a result of the Aspergers/Autism? Or was the response due to not having socialization skills (due to Aspergers/Autism) combined with growing up not having learned them?

Reason I ask is I have a child with Aspergers, and he's still young and he very much desires social situations and friendships and such. The problem isn't the desire, the problem is that he has great difficulty in such situations because of the Aspergers.

So left to itself, I could see him developing into a loner because he could never interact with typical kids in a typical way.

I don't force him into social situations, I don't force him to play sports. What I do do however is offer him opportunities to get in those situations if he's interested, and be sensitive to how it's going and if it's positive for him or not.

I'm using various methods to help him cope with and understand social situations in a way that he can either understand or simply know what's expected so that he can function with a group of peers and not be ostracised.

I don't want to turn him into a social butterfly, but that doesn't mean he's incapable of learning to cope with social situations when the arise. At least that's what I'm trying to do.

 

[Mark6]

I don't force him into social situations, I don't force him to play sports. What I do do however is offer him opportunities to get in those situations if he's interested, and be sensitive to how it's going and if it's positive for him or not.

I'm using various methods to help him cope with and understand social situations in a way that he can either understand or simply know what's expected so that he can function with a group of peers and not be ostracised.

Sounds like you are doing exactly right thing to do. Aspies CAN learn social skills, but they have to be taught the way neurotypicals do not -- they absorb them more or less through peer example.

Forced normalization fails because it assumes an Aspie kid will learn social skills through exposure to "normal" peers such as sports team. If they could do that, they would not be Aspies!

 

[jiggeryqua]

I suppose. Except...

I completely disagree with TShaitanaku that "normalizing" Aspies is about "learning how to deal with the distress that is a normal part of everyday life". Assuming that's what he is saying.

That MAY be the intent (although I do not think so) of "normalizing", but if so, then it completely fails.

And I agree with you, though I expressed that in a sarcastic fashion which is notoriously easy to misinterpret online.

 

[gnome]

I like the idea of looking at it like someone who has to learn what comes naturally to others.

 

[Trakar]

So how did forcing me to play basketball teach me anything about "distresses that are a normal part of everyday life"?

Basketball itself likely did not, being forced to deal with situations where we aren't skilled or even competent in the areas where we are expected to perform, however, is a common occurrence in everyday life and work. Learning how to deal with those types of situations is very important, despite being uncomfortable and distressing to everyone regardless of "normality." The vast majority of people are "abnormal" in some way (above average, below average, horizontally or vertically different etc.,.) "normal" is simply learning to deal and adjust to these differences that we all have, in a generally non-disruptive manner. If everyone merely avoided doing that which they did not enjoy or which caused them to feel awkward, uncomfortable and distressed social structure and society would break down.