Ask a Muslim anything

[DC]

yer, come on over to Florida, I'll buy you a beer!

hey i'll come back to that in case i will once come to Florida

 

[dlorde]

There is no contradiction with accepting both evolution and the Qur'an. In fact, Muslims have tossed the idea around long before Darwin ever did.

Both of these are quotes from Ibn Khaldun's book "The Muqaddimah" which preceded Darwin by about 1400 years. Other scientists reached similar conclusions, such as Al-Jahiz, Ibn Miskawayah, Hasan Ibin al-Haitham, Nasir al-Din Tusi and Ismail Ibn Kathir. Western scientists were well aware of this at the time and called it "The Mohammedan theory of evolution of man from lower forms"

So as far as I'm concerned, Darwin's theory wasn't anything new, it was just the one that popularized it.

I suspect many or most here are aware that Darwin's crucial contribution wasn't the concept of evolution itself, nor even popularizing it, but putting it on a scientific footing by elucidating the mechanism, giving us a testable theory, and providing evidence to support it.

'Tossing ideas around' is the first small step on that road. Arabic scientists & mathematicians of that time were responsible for many important discoveries and inventions, just as Darwin was responsible for a major discovery of his own time. Credit where credit is due.

 

[Leumas]

Let's try this again. Jinn, what is it like to believe a lie? Do you believe that Mohammed spit the moon in half with a sword as the Quran says?

Pray SHOW where in the Quran it says so...... you have never read the Quran and you are just repeating some Evangelical preachers' SLURS.


SHOW.....indicate the verse and Sura of the Quran which says that Muhammad split the Moon.


Two wrongs do not make a right .....that is when YOU (one wrong) try to say that Islam is a lie does not make YOUR fairy tale less of a LIE too.

So the POT should not call the KETTLE black....is the aphorism that comes to mind.

If you want to know how Jinn feels to believe a lie.......See how YOU feel.....it is the same feeling.

He employs the VERY SAME apologetics and twisting and wriggling and SELF-DELUSIONS as YOU AND YOUR ELK do.....

So the question is ASKED and ANSWERED....just look in the mirror.

 

[DC]

Pray SHOW where in the Quran it says so...... you have never the Quran and you are just repeating some Evangelical preachers SLURS.


SHOW.....indicate the verse and Sura of the Quran which says that Muhammad split the Moon.


Two wrongs do not make a right .....that is when YOU (one wrong) try to say that Islam is a lie does not make YOUR fairy tale less of a LIE too.

So the POT should not call the KETTLE black....is the aphorism that comes to mind.

If you want to know how Jinn feels to believe a lie.......See how YOU feel.....it is the same feeling.

He employs the VERY SAME apologetics and twisting and wriggling and SELF-DELUSIONS as YOU AND YOUR ELK do.....

So the question is ASKED and ANSWERED....just look in the mirror.

http://quran.com/54

 

[Kapyong]

Gday Jinn,

There is a man named Dr. Zakir Naik who I believe said it best: "The Qur'an is not a book of SCIENCE, the Qur'an is a book of SIGNS"
The Qur'an is a reminder for humans, not a science book.
Every mention of earth and space related entities and happenings is described as a sign and a testament to God. So the simple answer is "no."

I would daresay that if the Qur'an WAS a source of scientific knowledge, it would take a library to house a single copy.

So, it's NOT a science book.
NOT a source of scientific knowledge.
So you say.

But when asked why you believe it, your first comment was about a scientific claim in the Koran.

Since then you have posted numerous scientific claims as evidence for the Koran being true.

Why?
Didn't you say it's NOT a science book?
So why are you using alleged science claims as evidence for it's truth ?


K.

 

[Kapyong]

Gday,

Peace Leumas,
Ibin Kathir's tafseer is not akin to the talmud of the Torah. At all. Tafseer is arabic for "commentary" and contains one man's opinions. Unless you have a question, I'm going to kindly disregard this post.

Leumas' post DID have detailed and informed questions for you.
But you didn't answer him.
Why?

You're welcome to attack me in a new thread though.

There was NO attack in Leumas's post at all. He didn't use ANY attacking words, and he didn't even refer to YOU once!

Why didn't you answer his questions like you promised ?
Will you simply ignore any questions you don't like ?


K.

 

[dlorde]

Indeed there are variations to interpretations. To me, that's the beauty of the Qur'an. Most arabic words have a multiple of variant definitions. As with my pulsar example, the verse can be translated a multitude of ways, all of which are accurate, with the literal meaning being the one that I have personally found to be most accurate.

Wow - it's beautiful because it's so vague you can interpret it however you want and always be right?

Seriously?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Pray SHOW where in the Quran it says so...... you have never the Quran and you are just repeating some Evangelical preachers SLURS.


SHOW.....indicate the verse and Sura of the Quran which says that Muhammad split the Moon.


Two wrongs do not make a right .....that is when YOU (one wrong) try to say that Islam is a lie does not make YOUR fairy tale less of a LIE too.

So the POT should not call the KETTLE black....is the aphorism that comes to mind.

If you want to know how Jinn feels to believe a lie.......See how YOU feel.....it is the same feeling.

He employs the VERY SAME apologetics and twisting and wriggling and SELF-DELUSIONS as YOU AND YOUR ELK do.....

So the question is ASKED and ANSWERED....just look in the mirror.

I find your judgement a bit harsh. Surely the first couple of verses in Al-Qamar could be interpreted this way?

 

[Kapyong]

Gday,

Peace Lukraak,
As I said in another answer, the Qur'an is not a science book, it is a book of signs.

So why on earth do you keep bringing up SCIENCE claims as evidence for the Koran's truth ?

Please explain.


K.

 

[Kapyong]

I fear we may be getting off topic. Feel free to open up another thread in this forum and we can gladly start where we left off.

Pardon?
YOU brought up pulsars!

But when your claims are challenged, you say it's off-topic?
How bizarre.


K.

 

[Kapyong]

Gday,

Peace Leumas,
Unfortunately I believe our conversations to stray too far off topic.

YOU brought up alleged science claims in the Koran.
But when someone disagrees, you simply won't answer then.

Peace Leumas,
This will be the last post of this nature I'll cover from you. It is not my intent to defend my beliefs from attacks. I mean, honestly, are you expecting to destroy my faith?

There are no attacks in Leumas' post.
Just argument about your claims.
It appears you have no intention of answering anyone. You are just here to preach your beliefs, then you simply ignore any disagreement. Boring.


K.

 

[Leumas]

http://quran.com/54

It does not say Mohammad does it..... Mohammad is a human being according to Islam..... it is Allah (a.k.a. YHWH) who does the rending....

The sura is describing what will happen at the end of the world..... brought about by the NICE YHWH....not any doing of Muhammad since he would be long dead.

 

[DC]

Gday,



YOU brought up alleged science claims in the Koran.
But when someone disagrees, you simply won't answer then.




There are no attacks in Leumas' post.
Just argument about your claims.
It appears you have no intention of answering anyone. You are just here to preach your beliefs, then you simply ignore any disagreement. Boring.


K.

he answered my questions.

 

[DC]

It does not say Mohammad does it..... Mohammad is a human being according to Islam..... it is Allah (a.k.a. YHWH) who does the rending....

The sura is describing what will happen at the end of the world..... brought about by the NICE YHWH....not any doing of Muhammad since he would be long dead.

ppsst, i don't think there is any reason to be scared by the YHWH guy, Moses made it up. calm down, its just a myth.

 

[steve s]

Both of these are quotes from Ibn Khaldun's book "The Muqaddimah" which preceded Darwin by about 1400 years. Other scientists reached similar conclusions, such as Al-Jahiz, Ibn Miskawayah, Hasan Ibin al-Haitham, Nasir al-Din Tusi and Ismail Ibn Kathir. Western scientists were well aware of this at the time and called it "The Mohammedan theory of evolution of man from lower forms"

So as far as I'm concerned, Darwin's theory wasn't anything new, it was just the one that popularized it.

But where in the Quran does it talk about evolution? All you've done is show that Ibn Khaldun was keenly observant of the world around him. You haven't done anything to show this information was divinely revealed to him through the Quran. In the third century B.C., a Greek man named Eratosthenes not only proved the world was round, he accurately determined the circumference of the earth. Would you claim this proves that the pagan Greeks' religion was true? How else could he have come by this knowledge? Oh, yeah. He used his brain. Didn't require any divine revelation at all. Same with Ibn Khaldun.

Steve S

 

[Bill Thompson]

It does not say Mohammad does it..... Mohammad is a human being according to Islam..... it is Allah (a.k.a. YHWH) who does the rending....

The sura is describing what will happen at the end of the world..... brought about by the NICE YHWH....not any doing of Muhammad since he would be long dead.

WHAT !?

Does anyone here do any research? I will have to dig up some pro-islamic web sites that insist that it was Mohammed who did this.

Dude, it was done so that people whould know that Mohammed was the messenger from Allah. Read the whole passage.

DC, the name Allah, in Arabic is seen in the clouds in some of the Apollo footage too. Kind of like Jesus appearing in burnt toast.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Jinn, I am on the mailing list of several muslim orgs and I got several emails from some muslim groups denouncing evolutioin.

 

[Leumas]

I find your judgement a bit harsh. Surely the first couple of verses in Al-Qamar could be interpreted this way?

Have a look at my reply to Bill #236

Go back and read the verse CAREFULLY..... the moon was rent asunder..... it is Allah (a.k.a. YHWH) who does these things.

The verse and sura are talking about the END OF THE WORLD.
[snip]
I think where your mistake in thinking that Mohammad split the moon emanates from your MISTAKEN notion that the moslims think that Mohammad is their God.....just like Christians believe that Jesus is their God.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Go back and read the verse CAREFULLY..... the moon was rent asunder..... it is Allah (a.k.a. YHWH) who does these things.

The verse and sura are talking about the END OF THE WORLD..

According to my muslim friends it was done in Meca to prove to the people that Mohammed was the messenger of Allah. Where do you get your information?

Where do you get your information? I imagine you get it from the same physical orifice where you got the information that I was a biblical fundamentalist.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Not all information about Islam is in the Quran. There are other texts that are about Mohammed's life.

Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: "During the lifetime of the Prophet the moon was split into two parts and on that the Prophet said, 'Bear witness (to thus).' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 830)"

Narrated Anas: "That the Meccan people requested Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle, and so he showed them the splitting of the moon. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 831)"

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: "The moon was split into two parts during the lifetime of the Prophet. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 832)"

Narrated Anas bin Malik: "The people of Mecca asked Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle. So he showed them the moon split in two halves between which they saw the Hiram' mountain. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 208)"

Sheikh Zainuddin spoke of the legend; A moon-lit night the king while walking on the rooftop of his palace along with the queen saw the moon suddenly splitting into two halves. Later he came to know through the Arab traders that a prophet called Muhammad had wrought a miracle on that fateful night, and sundered the moon before a crowd of dazed spectators. Impressed by this new messenger of God in Arabia, the king set out for the holy land after dividing his kingdom and assigning various territories to local chieftains to ensure smooth governance. In Arabia he met the Prophet and embraced Islam in the presence of Abu Bakr Siddique, who later became the first caliph. Cheraman, who took a Muslim name, Tajuddin, died on his way back to India and was buried on the shore of the Arabian Sea at Salalah in the Sultanate of Oman. It is said that he had earlier written letters to the local rulers of Malabar and sent it through his ministers along with Malik bin Dinar, a companion of the Prophet. In the letters he had asked them to "receive the bearers of the letters and treat them well and help them to construct mosques at Kodungallur and elsewhere". The rulers of Kerala honoured the letters and permitted Malik Bin Dinar and his fellow Arab traders to build mosques in Kerala. The mosque built in the early 7th century at Kodungallur, known as Cheraman Malik Masjid, still exists with its original structure and is said to be the oldest mosque in the sub-continent. It is named after both Cheraman Perumal and Malik bin Dinar. Another mosque built during this period was the Malik Dinar Mosque, Kasaragod: William Logan accepted the story as authentic. The mosque at Kodungallur, purportedly built on the instruction of the last Perumal in 629 A.D exhibits the style of middle Chola architecture and a team of historians who studied its foundation safely placed it in the 12th century [Narayanan M.G.S., Calicut:The City of Truth. p.58- 59, Calicut University Press (2006)].

Skeptic: Chera or Chola dynasty was ruling in Malabar (present Kerala, India) even before 500 AD. William Logans who was the Collector of Malabar mentioned in the incidence of the splitting of the Moon and the conversion of Cheraman Perumal (Not Farmas) in his Malabar Manual.

http://www.cheramanmosque.com/history.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama_Varma_Kulashekhara
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=did+muhammad+split+the+moon&aq=0s&aqi=g-s1&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=5d7aefe1f33ec4cd&biw=1262&bih=516