Ask a Muslim anything

[PixyMisa]

Peace PixyMisa,

Can you please elaborate?

I already have.

You are twisting vague phrases and attempting to connect them to scientific theories to support a conclusion you have already reached.

This becomes obvious when you realise that no-one ever makes this connection before the scientific discovery is made, only afterwards.

Can you infer the existence of cosmological red shift from that verse?
Can you infer the properties of neutron stars from the earlier one?
Can you infer the existence of the CMB from the verse you claim refers to the Big Bang?

No.

So how can you claim that there's any connection at all?

 

[PixyMisa]

Peace Lukraak,

As I said in another answer, the Qur'an is not a science book, it is a book of signs.

Does it make amazing scientific predictions or not? You can't have it both ways.

 

[Leumas]

Peace gerdbonk,

Which translation would you like me to use? I have several I can settle upon. I'm not exactly seeing your logic, which (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to hinge upon the notion that I'm twisting verses out of their Arabic words. If I am translating wrongly, please do tell me which words do not correctly correlate.

The ones that use the ARABIC WORDS as they meant back in 1400 AD..... not as they are NOW translated to mean and CONVENIENTLY agreeing with the hindsight of 20th century science.

Arabic words that are not easily understood today had a very specific meaning in Mohammad's time.....so why not use a DICTIONARY from that time or CLOSE to it...... there are many such that are CLOSE TO mohammad's time and thus are more likely to be the CORRECT meaning.

But I am also willing to grant you a reprieve.....why not use a translation from 19th century.........I would accept a translation from before 1900.

There are MANY...... also Tafseers from before 1900.

So if you can show me that a Tafseer from before 1900 says that Tariq is not just a NAME given to a star..... Just like Tariq Ibn Ziyad....the guy who conquered Spain.... then show me where it said Pulsars..... ie a star that emits gamma rays that you need an electronic transducer to convert the gamma rays intensity level into sound waves volume level and thus be able to hear doing a sound like TARIQ.

Oh....and show me where God has given in the Quran a schematic for the construction of a Differential Amplifier which is a very basic element in the construction of the circuitry needed to do the above....or even a capacitor or resistor or rheostat...these are even more basic....or diode.... or even a BLOODY BICYCLE.

Is there anywhere in the Bible the schematic for TELESCOPE? Microscope?

Why didn’t god tell Muhammad that under his feet lies the secret for all the energy needed to run the world….why did the retarded Saudis have to wait until some American discovered….retrieved….transported….refined….invent devices that can use it….and invent the ARMS to DEFEND IT from Russians and Iranians and Iraqis for the sake of making some ass-scratching Saudi billions of dollars while American citizens are unable to get good health care without being bankrupted????

….oh…oh…wait…maybe that was Allah’s plan all along….the American children dying in wars to defend the OIL so as to maintain the money supply to the CHILDREN OF ISHMAEL….since in the Bible YHWH promised Abraham to have 12 PRINCES in that area…..so American gentiles have to die in wars to defend the money supply of the cousins of the Children of Israel…..just like YHWH (a.k.a Allah) promised Abraham…..now I get.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Peace Lukraak,

The Qur'an, in multiple places, states that it is a reminder, and that all nations prior had received the Message. Muhammad's only duty as a Messenger was to reveal the Qur'an. Muslims believe that every Messenger before Muhammad preached the same Message: a monotheistic belief of one Creator and to believe in Him. The Qur'an also states that not all nations accepted the Message. Messengers were rejected and even killed. The only difference between the previous revelations and the Qur'an is that the Qur'an is the final revelation.

That again to me seems like a human excuse to avoid explaining why an all powerful god does not clearly and irrevocably makes his will clear. There is no indication whatsoever that the americas ever had even an attempt at monotheism, let alone something approaching the abrahamic religions prior to exposure to europeans (who then brought christianity, not islam). Nor any indication in the quran that the americas exist and need exposure to the faith.
The same with australia.
China was only reached by conventional means and Japan again has no records of any attempt at monotheism until they came into contact with europeans.
'Yeah, god TOTALLY did give them the message, but they killed them and never listened' is the excuse of a five year old in a makebelief game. There is no proof whatsoever except in the very book(s) that claim it.
The same with the quran being the final revelation of god, the mormons would disagree with you there.

The Qur'an was not revealed in secret. After the first revelation, Muhammad would receive verses in public over the course of 23 years.

So were the books of mormon. In fact there are testified witnessess to those and they are newer. Why are you not a mormon?

As far as Islam being spread violently, I'll quote historian DeLacy O'Leary for starters.



You can visit http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/quote1.html for more.

As I've replied to another, the Qur'an states that if God had willed, we would be one nation united in Islam, but then what's the point of free will? Muslims believe life is a test, not a forced copulation of values. The beauty is that you and I are able to stand on opposite sides of a fence and still communicate in a wonderful manner and share different views of the world and beyond. I wouldn't be able to listen to Amon Amarth and yell about how awesome vikings were if there was no free will. The beauty of human diversity would be gone.

I'm not saying that Islam forces people to act violently or anything, but the followers of islam quite quickly occupied North africa, most of the middle east, the Persian empire, parts of the Byzantine empire and most of spain. Claiming that this was done non-violently is absurd.
Sure they didnt convert people at swordpoint, which is a step up from christianity, but they DID put a massive social incentive on being muslim.

It is of popular opinion among many Islamic scholars that you MUST accept the Qur'an to be a Muslim, but as far as Islam is concerned, that is a rather stupid statement. We believe that every Messenger, from Adam to Muhammad was a Muslim, yet none of them had the Qur'an, each relayed the Message to their people in their language.

As far as "random arbitrary rules" I'd love to hear your view on a few of them. As I have said before, I am not a mainstream Muslim, and many of the rules that apply to the major sects such as Sunni, do not have their foundation in the Qur'an.'

Dietary laws, mandatory prayer and ramadan spring to mind.
There is no biological reason to avoid any of the proscribed foods and no specific gain by slaughter in the specific way. It's pure human prejudice.

If god considers how you lived, why bother with the prayer 5 times a day, that time could be used productively aiding others.

Ramadan is cleary designed by someone that has NO clue that different parts of earth have differnt lengths of day. Its tied to the moon, so skips trough the year. Unimportant in the middle east, where seasonal lenght of day is not an issue, but muslims living at/near the (ant)arctic circle have a major problem during the summer when the sun doesn't set. An all powerful god would have known this and added provisions BEFORE the problem is encountered.

It's always a valid question: Is the Qur'an fabricated? And I assume you know both answers I'm about to give: To those who believe in it, it isn't. To those who don't, it is. One of the most amazing things I love about the Qur'an is its self-confirmation of its own controversial nature. The Qur'an is not shy in saying that not everyone is going to believe, not everyone is going to see the way believers do and many will never believe. Ultimately, everyone's fate is unknown until Judgement Day. It would be a gross fallacy to say that I've got a better chance of going to Heaven than you, because I am not God. Unfortunately, not every Muslim grasps this concept and thinks that if they blow up an ice cream shop, they get virgins and other such hooey. I could rattle off reasons why I believe in the Qur'an, and you could produce a counterargument to each one, which, believe it or not, is one of the reasons I believe in the Qur'an.

Again, that seems like a human covering his bases. A true god would be able to convince the whole world without immediately violating free will. And at the same time would have prevented a massive amount of secular bloodshed.

 

[Jinn]

Jinn,

I can believe you were a Christian….but I find it VERY HARD to believe you were ever an Atheist as you claim.

Your Apologetics for the Quran are exactly the same kind of apologetics Christians use for the Bible.

If you were ever in any form an Atheist out of REASONING you would be ashamed to even begin to use the apologetics you are using for the Quran.

In the Quran God says that he created Humans out of MUD and breathed a soul into them on numerous occasions in many verses in many Suras.

In the Quran, God also says he created EVERYTHING in SIX days and that he holds the sky from falling on our heads and that the earth is a carpet and that the sun and the moon run in their tracks and actually pray to him and that the stars are LANTERNS in the dome.

So unfortunately, the Quran is as RETARDED as the Bible in that aspect….. only by CONTORTING, WARPING, WRIGGLING and WRITHING verses and with HINDSIGHT of today’s science can you even begin to justify to yourself that the quaran even comes close to having evolution in it or that it is in any way not a RETARDED pathetic book when it comes to any kind of EPISTEMOLOGICAL SCIENCE. God in the quran even BOASTS that he hits whoever he wishes with lightning.

Another apologetic you use is FREE WILL……how original…..in the quran God on numerous occasions in many Suras says that he guides whoever he wants and will mislead who he wants……so how is that free will?

And why would he want to make a book in the first place if one’s free will can be free to interpret it in any way it happens to think is best…..why would he then be mad that we did not interpret it correctly?

Why did he not instruct Mohammad to have the Quran written down in his lifetime and collated in one book and have it so that mohammad can then make sure that it is true and sound and is in the right order????

Why did Omar have to order SEVEN versions of the Quran BURNT because they did not tally with the one HE liked best???

Why is it that they had to collect the quran from bits and pieces from here and there written on Asses bones and sheep’s skin and FROM PEOPLE’s MEMORY????

How do we know they got it right???? Mohammad NEVER APPROVED the edition that Omar approved???? There were SEVEN OTHERS….how do we know that Omar got it right….Mohammad was long dead and we have no indication that Omar had Gabriel visit him to EDIT the final collected book????

How do we know that people’s memory was not FALSE or INCORRECT?

The quran is collated in such an amazingly STUPID manner…… Verses that were revealed in Mecca are intermingled with verses released in Medina and in one Sura. And even that is wrong since verses revealed early on come at the end of the book and ones revealed way later are at the beginning of the book on top of the mingling of the verses which are chronologically not consecutive in the same Sura consecutively.

The Quran has the SAME STORIES from the Bible repeated OVER AND OVER ad nauseum. Some are half told in one sura and then picked up and finished in another sura that is 30 suras later.

There is so much repetition in the Quran of almost everything. Most of the quran cannot even be understood unless one has read the Torah and in some cases even the NT.

So for the life of me I cannot see how you can even begin to say that you rejected Christianity and then you turn around and accept a religion that is JUST AS RETARDED and apply to it the EXACT SAME apologetics you could have applied to Christianity and remained a Christian as a result.

There is something WRONG with your assertions…….I do not believe you are INGENIOUS….. or your are very CREDULOUS and just as benighted as you were when you were a Christian and never could have been an Atheist out of any intelligent reasoning.


By the way …. I see no point in wasting my time looking up verse references to support my above assertions about the Quran….. they are all there and anyone can look them up by reading the quran….but if anyone REALLY wants me to do so I am happy to do it but I would rather not waste my time.

Peace Leumas,

It is not my intention to delve into apologetics, although I fear I have humored people into that mindset.

It doesn't take much to become an atheist, the rejection of any notion of a deity or deities is sufficient. However if you'd like to believe I was never an atheist, then I cannot stop you and have no will or reason to try. If you're not satisfied with my answers, that is totally OK. If you'd like to discuss the Qur'an at length, you are free to go to your local mosque and argue over it with an Imam of your choosing.

I'm really going to have to stop there; as I said in my first post, my intent is to answer questions, not convert, and that includes defending Islam. I unfortunately will not reply to hostilities, nor do I have any obligation to acknowledge them. Furthermore, if you attempt to have an aggressive discussion over the above topics, I would like you to bring forth relevant passages, otherwise you're just flinging crap at a screen door to see which pieces hit me in the face.

Hope that helps.

 

[Leumas]

As far as Islam being spread violently, I'll quote historian DeLacy O'Leary for starters.

History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.

Oh really…..tell that to the Spanish, Indians, Persians, Byzantines, Serbians, Armenians, etc.

Here is Tariq Ibn Ziyad’s picture conquering Spain…. The sword in his hand does not look to me like a lollypop.

 

[Jinn]

Sorry, but you lose. Being definitive about what you are saying doesn't impede on free will.

And since you don't reply to anything but questions, here's one:

Where is the Qur'an on human pain, suffering, and degredation?

Peace Mudcat,

The Qur'an tells us, as Muslims, to be charitable to those around us, whether it be to the orphans, the slaves, or our enemies. Indeed the pain and suffering that is widespread around the world is not a simple issue for anyone, regardless of faith, but we are told to do what we can in terms of helping. The Qur'an tells us to "Give in the way of Allah" the excess of our needs.

We are further commanded to fast during the month of Ramadan, that is, to abstain from food, water and sexual relations from sun-up to sun-down in order to remind ourselves of those who are much less fortunate than us. Those who are unable to fast (due to medical conditions or other such factors) are ordered to feed at least one less fortunate person for the duration of Ramadan. We are not allowed to degrade others for any reason, whether it be their religion (or lack of one), ethnicity or otherwise.

Likewise there are many examples of God using pain and suffering to punish; acts which even Messengers have disagreed on. Examples include Abraham pleading for Sodom to be spared as well as Moses' plea for mercy on the Israelites. I already know I'll be ridiculed for this, but all I can say on the matter is that God knows best, and I pray for them to be spared on Judgement Day.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Peace Lukraak,

As I said in another answer, the Qur'an is not a science book, it is a book of signs.

The sign being, I don't care if you keep dying of easily avoidable diseases, as long as you worship me?

 

[Jinn]

Hello Jinn.

My main question would be, do you have a rational basis for your belief, and if so, what?



Can you find a passage that explicitly tells us something that nobody of that time could have possibly known? Otherwise this is just another kooky postdiction, like all those Nostradamus interpretations.




I think you're stretching things a little to assume it means a pulsar. It could be referring to a binary system that varies in brightness over time, or possibly a supernova that brightened the skies. In those days the stars were considered portents and omens, so they would be aware of visible changes in the sky like this.

No offense intended, but I'm not going to take your quotation as it stands. Instead I'm going to get one from another source for comparison...

1. By the heaven, and that which appeareth by night:
2. but what shall cause thee to understand what that which appeareth by night is?
3. it is the star of piercing brightness:
4. every soul hath a guardian set over it.
5. Let a man consider, therefore, of what he is created.
6. He is created of seed poured forth,
7. issuing from the loins and the breast-bones.
8. Verily God is able to restore him to life,
9. the day whereon all secret thoughts and actions shall be examined into;
10. and he shall have no power to defend himself nor any protector.
11. By the heaven which returneth the rain,
12. and by the earth which openeth to let forth vegetables and springs,
13. verily this is a discourse distinguishing good from evil,
14. and it is not composed with lightness,
15. Verily the infidels are laying a plot to frustrate my designs;
16. but I will lay a plot for their ruin.
17. Wherefore, O Prophet, bear with the unbelievers I let them alone a while.

Looking at this translation of the entire verse, it doesn't seem to be saying much about stars at all, except possibly vaguely implying that they're really guardian spirits..

(I know Angrysoba beat me to the whole quotation, but I looked this up before I read his comment, and thought it would be worthwhile adding a different translation to the conversation.)




From the comments on my source for the translation of that verse I quoted...



This pretty much says that "Tariq" means "appearing by night". Looking at another source, a literal interpretation this time, we get...

1. And/by the sky/space, and/by the Night Comer/star (Morning Star).
2. And what made you know/informed you what the Night Comer/star (Morning Star is)?
3. The star/planet, the lit/penetrating.

So it literally means "the night comer" or "appearing by night". While your argument is based on it meaning "the rapper" or "the knocker". In other words, your argument is based on a faulty translation.



If there hasn't been a single change, why did it become necessary for different groups of Muslims to destroy every copy of any Koran that differed from their own?

The reason why the Koran lacks variation is because the other variations were destroyed, not because God prevented it from varying.



Being clear and explicit in your meaning does not violate free will. That is a complete non-answer. You sound like a Christian apologist.

Peace Brian,

Unfortunately, I'm not here to debate. I'm here to field questions and answer to the best of my ability. If you are in any way unsatisfied with this simple methodology, then I apologize.

 

[Jinn]

Hi Jinn,

Where do you stand on God's existence? Do you believe that the Qu'ran provides evidence of God's existence, or do you believe in the existence of God on spiritual or faith grounds, but consider the Qu'ran to be the right "fit" for the "nature" of God, or something else?

Peace gumboot,

I do believe in God's existence and that the Qur'an provides such evidence. I believe that the Qur'an is a reminder for those who believe and an invitation for those who don't. I believe that God's Will can be described as physics and have no problems with any field of science.

 

[Jinn]

cool you seem to be a believer that is easy to come along with.

yer, come on over to Florida, I'll buy you a beer!

 

[Lamuella]

Hello, Jinn,

First of all, thank you for being as open in this thread as you have been, even when faced with hostility.

Second, I have a question about heaven. The question is in two parts, with the first being dependent on the second.

1) From what the koran has taught you, would a non-believer who had lived a good life go to heaven after they died?
2) if the answer to this question is no, is it in the power of Allah to admit a nonbeliever to heaven?

 

[Lamuella]

yer, come on over to Florida, I'll buy you a beer!

Hello, Jinn,

Another quick question, stemming out of this comment: many muslims do not consume alcohol. Does this prohibition on alcohol come from the Koran or from the hadiths?

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Very well, different, non-scientific question.

If god gave us free will, and judges us according to how we use this, why not purely judge us after death and leave the whole religion thing out?
Clearly in your belief it doesn't matter what, if any, religion you follow. So why follow a religion at all?

 

[Jinn]

How do you interpret the following

does modern discovery indicate that the sky ever needed PILLARS to be raised (visible or not)?

Does the Sun run in its course just like the moon does?

How can the sun and moon PRAY to God.... (this is in another Sura not the one below)????

So how do these verses TUG at you in the light of recent discovery?




Sura 13 (Ar-Rad = Thunder)

﴿اللَّهُ الَّذِى رَفَعَ السَّمَـوَتِ بِغَيْرِ عَمَدٍ تَرَوْنَهَا ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى عَلَى الْعَرْشِ وَسَخَّرَ الشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ كُلٌّ يَجْرِى لأَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّـى يُدَبَّرُ الاٌّمْرَ يُفَصِّلُ الآيَـتِ لَعَلَّكُمْ بِلِقَآءِ رَبِّكُمْ تُوقِنُونَ ﴾

(2. Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you can see. Then, He rose above (Istawa) the `Arsh ﴿Throne﴾. He has subjected the sun and the moon, each running (its course) for a term appointed. He manages and regulates all affairs; He explains the Ayat in detail, that you may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.)

Peace Leumas,

Unfortunately I believe our conversations to stray too far off topic. This will be the last post of this nature I'll cover from you. It is not my intent to defend my beliefs from attacks. I mean, honestly, are you expecting to destroy my faith?

In ancient times, it was a prominent belief that the skies/heavens were supported by pillars. The verse in question destroys that notion.

Just as the moon follows it's orbit around the earth, the sun follows what is known as the Solar Apex.

The Sun and the Moon are under God's Will, they pray in their own unique way. It is not my place to say how. As in the verse you quoted, God manages and regulates all of their affairs.

 

[Jinn]

Jinn,

You disagree with your God?

Peace Undesired Walrus,

I personally don't see it as a disagreement. A stranger's sex life is none of my business and we are all responsible for our own salvation. Do I believe homosexuality is wrong? Sure, on the same level that I consider sex out of marriage to be immoral. What you won't get from me is hatespeak or active condemnation of homosexuality. I'm not out there to tell people how to live and the only valid resistance that I can make is refusing to marry a same-sex couple by my own hand (but as I said, I'll gladly refer them to someone who is willing to marry them). Their spirituality and views on the issue is not my business, just like someone eating a ham and cheese sandwich is not my business.

Can I disagree with God? Sure. Abraham literally begged God to spare the city of Sodom, and it is that sort of example that all Muslims should live by.

 

[Jinn]

Jinn,

Why?

Peace Undesired Walrus,

Muslims believe Jesus was a Messenger like Muhammad, except that Jesus was sent to the Lost Sheep of Israel. The virgin birth is mentioned in the Qur'an as well.

 

[Cainkane1]

Jinn- by the way, I urge you to be prepared for attacks from several members of the forum. There are a few people here who hate Islam & Muslims and will stop at nothing to lie and attack you and your faith. Be strong, be peaceful, be the better man and you shall have many allies here.

Salaam.

However the vast majority of us have a live and let live attitude and have nothing against Jinns religion other than what an atheist would have against religion overall.

 

[Beady]

Very well, different, non-scientific question.

If god gave us free will, and judges us according to how we use this, why not purely judge us after death and leave the whole religion thing out?
Clearly in your belief it doesn't matter what, if any, religion you follow. So why follow a religion at all?

That's easy. People follow a religion for one or more of several reasons: community, peer reinforcement, tradition, conviction, preference, compulsion, fear, desperation, hope, greed (hey! religion is good for business)... You name it.

 

[Jinn]

I already have.

You are twisting vague phrases and attempting to connect them to scientific theories to support a conclusion you have already reached.

This becomes obvious when you realise that no-one ever makes this connection before the scientific discovery is made, only afterwards.

Can you infer the existence of cosmological red shift from that verse?
Can you infer the properties of neutron stars from the earlier one?
Can you infer the existence of the CMB from the verse you claim refers to the Big Bang?

No.

So how can you claim that there's any connection at all?

Peace PixyMisa

As I have said before, the Qur'an is not a science book, it is a religious reminder.

I'm really at a loss as to what to tell you other than you're asking me to show you that the Qur'an details the method of discovery of the above, which it does not. It states that the heaven and the earth were one, then split, that the heaven is expanding, and that the universe will collapse back in upon itself and be as it was in the beginning. The only connections being that what was written 1400 years ago correlate rather nicely with recent discoveries about the universe's origins, it's current state of expansion and one of the two main theories about how it will end. If I want to know about the methodology used to confirm what we know, I'll go ask a professional.

Hope that helps.