Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Well, since Saturday is apparently given over to questioning and cross-examination of the independent experts, I'm guessing that there's a chance that we won't get to hear from Stefanoni in rebuttal. If that's the case, then her presence in court today would be to prepare notes for the prosecution's cross-examination. That would be too bad, because I was really looking forward to the spectacle of Stefanoni retaking the stand to defend herself.
 
I see that the "mixed blood" over on the TJMK site just became more mixed..........


What is really stupid is that the original DNA findings proved without any doubt whatsoever that the mixed blood confirmed all three bleeding at the same time. Therefore this report will do little, if any damage to the prosecution at all. The only reason for the newspaper reports plus CNN et-al is to provide higher ratings and sell stuff.
Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 07/25/11 at 12:26 PM | #


Maybe one of their resident astrologers will study Patrizia Stefanoni's horoscope. I wanna know on which date she'll be fired.

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more falsehoods

I see that the "mixed blood" over on the TJMK site just became more mixed..........


What is really stupid is that the original DNA findings proved without any doubt whatsoever that the mixed blood confirmed all three bleeding at the same time. Therefore this report will do little, if any damage to the prosecution at all. The only reason for the newspaper reports plus CNN et-al is to provide higher ratings and sell stuff.
Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 07/25/11 at 12:26 PM | #


Maybe one of their resident astrologers will study Patrizia Stefanoni's horoscope. I wanna know on which date she'll be fired.

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Yikes, this is the first I have heard of three people having mixed blood. It is utter twaddle, of course. There is no forensic evidence in this case of mixed blood. Period. End of story. I have tried for over a year to correct a different misconception, that Raffaele's DNA was "abundant," despite the fact that it is borderline low template number. I predict that I or anyone else won't have any success in wiping out this one. Some misconceptions simply won't die.
 
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So, it was a great day for the defence after all. What is important that some of truth finally got through to the media. I guess the visual aids C&V employed were helpful, with the courtroom filled with journalists.

No testimony of Stefanoni announced so far? Looks like the next hearing will be examination of the experts only. If the prosecution requests then a testimony from Stefi she'll take the stand on the third day ( or maybe take a sick leave :) ).
 
I see that the "mixed blood" over on the TJMK site just became more mixed..........


What is really stupid is that the original DNA findings proved without any doubt whatsoever that the mixed blood confirmed all three bleeding at the same time. #

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Wow. That must have been a real bloodfest. Reminds me of the pie-eating scene in "Stand By Me". Well, except with blood instead of vomit.
 
Patrizia Stefanoni, the police forensic scientist who found the DNA on the kitchen knife and the torn bra clasp, has said she will fight the experts' accusation that basic errors were made on her watch.

"I am angry about the false statements in this report and ready to come to court to highlight the past record of these experts," she told Britain's Observer newspaper in an interview published on Sunday.

"I am also looking into taking legal action against them," she said.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...al/story-e6frfku0-1226101725827#ixzz1T9Tnube4

I would be happy to buy a round trip ticket to Rome if they were to do to Patrizia Stefanoni what they did to the first Christians.
 
So, it was a great day for the defence after all. What is important that some of truth finally got through to the media. I guess the visual aids C&V employed were helpful, with the courtroom filled with journalists.

No testimony of Stefanoni announced so far? Looks like the next hearing will be examination of the experts only. If the prosecution requests then a testimony from Stefi she'll take the stand on the third day ( or maybe take a sick leave :) ).

It is interesting how this will play out. Let Stefi have a shot at redeeming herself or wave that bus on. I don't see much reward in an attempt to make the experts look foolish, it has little hope of success and alienating the judge is a big risk. Saturday could be be somewhat anti-climatic and Stefi could be left sputtering DNA don't fly as she is wheeled from the courtroom.
 
It is interesting how this will play out. Let Stefi have a shot at redeeming herself or wave that bus on. I don't see much reward in an attempt to make the experts look foolish, it has little hope of success and alienating the judge is a big risk. Saturday could be be somewhat anti-climatic and Stefi could be left sputtering DNA don't fly as she is wheeled from the courtroom.

It's really just going through the motions at this point. This case is so over. Maresca's statements today were *ominous*. He knows the score. Game over.
 
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It is interesting how this will play out. Let Stefi have a shot at redeeming herself or wave that bus on. I don't see much reward in an attempt to make the experts look foolish, it has little hope of success and alienating the judge is a big risk. Saturday could be be somewhat anti-climatic and Stefi could be left sputtering DNA don't fly as she is wheeled from the courtroom.

HA! I love that image! :)

At least one poster on PMF got something right:

The FOA are at the top of their game right now and they're obviously energized by the C&V report.

ND'd.
 
The Truth is that there is no evidence:

http://translate.googleusercontent....prove/&usg=ALkJrhgauCxy38Xhp-MmLSqfnaznxmoDKg

At this point there is nothing that places Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito at the scene. The witness of the prosecution, Anthony Curatolo svagliato the day when he claimed to have seen Amanda and Raffaele (it was the night of November 1). Rudy Guede says he heard a voice and saw a shadow and, after three years, claims to be sure that it was Amanda and Raffaele, however there are some who claims to have heard a different story. The unio that you have certainty of the presence at the crime scene for traces of the huge, it's Guede.

The question now is: why Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito have been held for four years.
 
It's the oddest thing. Bob Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" is TOTALLY stuck in my head right now.
 
So true...

Yes, I know. But their daughter was murdered in horrific circumstances. That is not conducive to a calm and rational appraisal of the evidence. I've seen the same thing with Lockerbie relatives. Their grief is so raw that they simply cannot look at the evidence that the guy who was convicted actually had nothing to do with the atrocity. It's not a rational situation, and it's absolutely horrible for them.

I agree that it is a prime reason why the victim or the family of the victim should not be involved in the criminal process though.

Rolfe.
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...and you are so right Rolfe,

of all the people who believe in the guilt of Amanda and Raffaele, I am more inclined to give the Kerchers a lot more leeway and benefit of the doubt in their campaign to find justice for their daughter than most anyone else. It was a simply horrible way to lose their child. They deserve our sympathy more than they deserve our hate. In my opinion anyway,

Dave

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It is very difficult to completely destroy an expert witness. Here are some of the strategies that one might ordinarily expect to see deployed:

1. Attack the expert's credentials: Difficult and very dangerous to attempt here, given academic status and the fact that the Judge himself appointed these experts.

2. Go after typos and minor mistakes in the report to score a couple of quick and easy points: Possible here, I suppose, but it never gets you very far.

3. Find prior inconsistent statements: Not sure if any are available here, e.g., published papers, prior reports, etc.

4. Suggest bias, if you can: Very dangerous here, given the fact that the judge appointed the experts.

5. Define the expert's scope of work as narrowly as possible, pointing out what they are not addressing/attacking: Not very effective here, since the court has already defined the scope.

6. Ellicit areas of agreement: Possible here, I suppose, to get the experts that agree that whatever came out of the machine does not exclude Sollecito/Kercher. Not sure if you can get more than that, though.

7. Nibble around the edges of the main opinion/findings: I don't think they will be able to do too much damage here, certainly not enough to fully undermine the experts.

Notwithstanding these tactics, it's very difficult to totally destroy an expert on cross-examination. Usually what you have to do, to win an expert argument, is to put on your own expert who is smarter and better and more persuasive. In this case, the prosecution's only real hope will be to put Stefanoni back on the stand to rebut what the experts have said. If this is even possible, and if there is only one day of testimony left, the only way to do this will be to cut short the cross-examination of C&V in order to get Stefanoni up there.

We'll see where it all goes.
 
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...and you are so right Rolfe,

of all the people who believe in the guilt of Amanda and Raffaele, I am more inclined to give the Kerchers a lot more leeway and benefit of the doubt in their campaign to find justice for their daughter than most anyone else. It was a simply horrible way to lose their child. They deserve our sympathy more than they deserve our hate. In my opinion anyway,

Dave

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It doesn't give you a free pass to wrongly hurt other people. IMHO.
 
Interesting if the prosecution lawyers are already all hopped up, as the report seems to suggest. After all, all we have here so far is the presentation of an independent expert report. Prosecution excitement at this point suggests to me how over-invested those lawyers are in this case.

The really interesting thing will be the questions that the judges ask. Cross-examination will also be interesting. The role that prosecution experts--Novelli, Stefanoni, others, end up playing will also be interesting. Will they rebut?


Hellman's opinion on their testimony is the only one that really counts. They're his court-appointed independent experts in a judicial process that doesn't usually admit them at the appeal stage. He's the one that had concerns over the DNA evidence's validility and wanted to hear what they had to say.

Where is Barbie the waffler? Has she sworn off Twitter as a part of her campaign to reinvent herself?


She may be in a flap, wondering what the internet bloggers are wearing today...
 
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