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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Interesting if the prosecution lawyers are already all hopped up, as the report seems to suggest. After all, all we have here so far is the presentation of an independent expert report. Prosecution excitement at this point suggests to me how over-invested those lawyers are in this case.

The really interesting thing will be the questions that the judges ask. Cross-examination will also be interesting. The role that prosecution experts--Novelli, Stefanoni, others, end up playing will also be interesting. Will they rebut?

Where is Barbie the waffler? Has she sworn off Twitter as a part of her campaign to reinvent herself?
 
I feel it is very inappropriate for prosecution lawyers to become personally invested with a case. Defence lawyers, yes, there is a presumption of innocence, so for them to be taking that presumption as their starting point is reasonable.

But how can the presumption of innocence be fairly maintained if the prosecution are fervently presuming guilt? Even-handed, evidence-led presentation of the facts should be the way to go.

Rolfe.
 
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http://twitter.com/#!/EVargasABC

EVargasABC Elizabeth Vargas
Independent experts in #amandaknox appeal extremely critical of prosecution today in italy. Says it violates intl rules of evidence
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Elizabeth Vargas
EVargasABC Elizabeth Vargas
Some real fireworks in amanda knox appeal today. Blistering critique of prosecutions "dna" eliciting shouting matches
 
Yes!

Oh, how many times I've watched that video wondering what the heck was goin on there... Finally, someone showed it to the judges. Someone that has the power, knowledge and abilitiy to throw out all of Stefanoni's so called scientific work. What does the tension line mean though? Is there a tension between the lawyers of Amanda and Raffaele or between the defense and the prosecution (+Maresca)?
_____________________

Snook,

The experts showed the video to the Judges in slow motion..........

POLLUTION OF THE EVIDENCE. The hook of the bra worn by Meredith Kercher was killed when he was touched with a glove "dirty" by the operators of forensic experts according to the Assize Court of Appeal of Perugia. They supported themselves by telling the judges the results of their investigations.
Experts have shown the movie repertoire of operations. Analyzed images "frame by frame," stated Professor Stefano Conti. "There are a number of circumstances," he added "that does not correspond to protocols and procedures."
In particular, the specimen is shown in the video, according to the experts, "the sign of a dirty glove touched the hook." (
HERE)

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Yes!

Oh, how many times I've watched that video wondering what the heck was goin on there...

Finally, someone showed it to the judges. Someone that has the power, knowledge and abilitiy to throw out all of Stefanoni's so called scientific work.

What does the tension line mean though? Is there a tension between the lawyers of Amanda and Raffaele or between the defense and the prosecution (+Maresca)?

Looks like everyone is on edge according to this article

http://translate.google.com/transla...t/web/sezioni/cronaca/PN_20110725_00071.shtml
 
http://twitter.com/#!/EVargasABC

EVargasABC Elizabeth Vargas
Independent experts in #amandaknox appeal extremely critical of prosecution today in italy. Says it violates intl rules of evidence
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Elizabeth Vargas
EVargasABC Elizabeth Vargas
Some real fireworks in amanda knox appeal today. Blistering critique of prosecutions "dna" eliciting shouting matches

thanks

Here is a live twittererer

Shouting matches....LOL
 
I feel it is very inappropriate for prosecution lawyers to become personally invested with a case. Defence lawyers, yes, there is a presumption of innocence, so for them to be taking that presumption as their starting point is reasonable.

But how can the presumption of innocence be fairly maintained if the prosecution are fervently presuming guilt? Even-handed, evidence-led presentation of the facts shoudl be the way to go.

Rolfe.

However true this may be for prosecutors, it applies still more to "civil parties" such as the Kerchers (represented by Maresca).

In other news, zilcho has now changed his name for me from "Komposto" to "FOA nutjob". I guess I've arrived.
 
_________________

Rose,

Interesting that the experts have attached a magnitude to the risk of contamination:

"un forte rischio di contaminazione" = a high risk of contamination

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Not that there's any doubt that this reflects Conti and Vecchiotti's opinion (see after all p. 136ff. of the report!), but just to be perfectly scrupulous, this is the article's characterization of the defense position.
 
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_____________________

Snook,

The experts showed the video to the Judges in slow motion..........

POLLUTION OF THE EVIDENCE. The hook of the bra worn by Meredith Kercher was killed when he was touched with a glove "dirty" by the operators of forensic experts according to the Assize Court of Appeal of Perugia. They supported themselves by telling the judges the results of their investigations.
Experts have shown the movie repertoire of operations. Analyzed images "frame by frame," stated Professor Stefano Conti. "There are a number of circumstances," he added "that does not correspond to protocols and procedures."
In particular, the specimen is shown in the video, according to the experts, "the sign of a dirty glove touched the hook." (
HERE)

///

This video is impossible to refute. And, it's especially powerful given the vile look of the brown, drippy schmutz on the glove. Maybe Stefanoni thinks that the applicable standard is that the evidence should be admitted if you would rather lick the collection glove than a hobo's big toe. Close call on this one.

Who are the evidence collectors in this scene? Are they Stefanoni's people or Perugian police or who?
 
This video is impossible to refute. And, it's especially powerful given the vile look of the brown, drippy schmutz on the glove. Maybe Stefanoni thinks that the applicable standard is that the evidence should be admitted if you would rather lick the collection glove than a hobo's big toe. Close call on this one.

Who are the evidence collectors in this scene? Are they Stefanoni's people or Perugian police or who?


Well, that's the strange thing. Stefanoni herself - inexplicably - inserted herself into the evidence collection process, even though she's a laboratory scientist. This makes no sense for three main reasons: first, crime scene investigators should be specially trained and experienced in doing that specific job; second, Stefanoni's time and training is far better utilised in the laboratory; third, those doing the lab analysis should be conducting their tests with absolute objectivity and neutrality, and should not have had exposure to the crime scene.

In addition, the whole operation of crime scene analysis at the cottage seems to have had an almost-farcical lack of professionalism. In the UK (and most other countries. I'm sure), a dedicated team of SOCOs (Scene of Crime Officers) moves in. This team is usually well-trained (particularly in the case of murder investigations), and consists of various personnel who are trained in different crime scene disciplines: evidence collection, fingerprinting, photography, etc. But in the Kercher case, thanks to the crime scene video and previous court testimony, we know that the whole process was little more than a semi-organised shambles. We have evidence being collected in a completely unprofessional fashion, by people who seem barely trained to do the work. Specific examples include the infamous mop-wrap (courtesy of La Stefanoni herself), the doubly-infamous bra clasp collection, the apparent failure to change shoe covers and gloves appropriately, and the unbelievably-shoddy "smear" swabbing of the bathroom sink (which was, incidentally, conducted by the same person who served as the photographer!).

Quite how this huge ineptitude (and that's the most generous description that can be employed) got through Massei's court is extraordinary in itself. But I don't believe Hellmann is as ignorant or as "willfully blind" as Massei. I therefore think that the appeal court will - in addition to throwing out the knife/clasp evidence - also assign clear doubt to the "mixed DNA" evidence in the bathroom sink, on account of the erroneous collection technique.
 
Inconsistent stories provided by the cops on how the DNA knife was transported: HERE

"Also according to testimony in the Gup, two officers admitted that they touched, and sealed finding the knife believed to be the murder weapon . An unclear situation because one of the officers explained that the knife has been sealed to the police station, while another - according to the tabulated - on the spot."

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I do feel so sorry for the Kercher family. If Amanda and Rafealle are acquitted, as seems likely, will they ever come to accept that Rude Guede alone (or just possibly with unidentified others though I have to ask, if so where is their DNA?) killed their daughter? Or are they going to be eaten up forever by the conviction that the killers "got away with it"?

Rolfe.
 
Inconsistent stories provided by the cops on how the DNA knife was transported: HERE

"Also according to testimony in the Gup, two officers admitted that they touched, and sealed finding the knife believed to be the murder weapon . An unclear situation because one of the officers explained that the knife has been sealed to the police station, while another - according to the tabulated - on the spot."

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Was it filmed? That should be a debate that can be answered.
 
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