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UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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How did you measure the size and distance of this thing you saw?

I will assume for the moment that you just guessed (feel free to prove me wrong). What you might have seen is a smaller object which was closer to you than you guessed, in which case it didn't cover that huge distance in one second.

How did you rule out this possibility?
He has been asked this many times. He has never replied.

On one occasion I even tried to help him by asking if he'd seen it go behind or in front of an object (a mountain, a house, a tree) whose size and distance he did know, which would at least have helped him narrow it down a bit.

Still no reply.
 
He has been asked this many times. He has never replied.

On one occasion I even tried to help him by asking if he'd seen it go behind or in front of an object (a mountain, a house, a tree) whose size and distance he did know, which would at least have helped him narrow it down a bit.

Still no reply.

That is sad, because he seems like an alright bloke otherwise. This of course is just another demonstration of the dishonesty of his arguments, oh well.
 
You repeat this argument that eyewitnesses can be mistaken so they are mistaken over and over – even when it has been pointed out to you many times that just because eyewitnesses can be mistaken, does not mean that they are mistaken.
How many have thought they saw something mundane and it turned out to be pseudoaliens?

Each case must be assessed on its own merits. The perceptual and cognitive factors that lead to misperceptions are well documented. We can examine each case to see if any of those factors might have played a role. If such factors are present that would indicate that the report is unreliable, then we call the case for precisely what it then is – unreliable and therefore possibly a case of misinterpretation. If however it is determined that those factors have not played a significant role (or indeed there are converging and independent lines of evidence) – then we can reasonably assess the descriptive characteristics of that case for what it might be showing us.
Converging and independent lines of evidence such as multiple military observers and FLIR?

Quite simply, each case must be assessed on its own merits and we cannot therefore simply apply a blanket generalisation that just because it is possible for eyewitnesses to be in error, then therefore they are (or are likely to have been) in error in any specific case under examination.
Yes, we've been assessing each case in this thread on its own merits. Haven't you been paying attention? All of your cases have positively defied plausible non-mundane explanation leaving only "mundane".

Now if you think that is not a reasonable counter to your own argument, then of course you will be able to point out the reasons why you hold that belief. Merely ignoring that refutation of your own argument, to later repeat (and repeat and repeat) the same old line – as if it did not have a counterargument - is disingenuous.
Indeed it would be disingenuous of you if you were not able to overcome these refutations to your arguments and yet simply reclaim the same failed arguments at some later point. Oh wait, that is what you're doing. You'll now need to explain why you maintain your religion like beliefs when you have no argument to base it on.

Have you any reasons to reject my counter to your argument – or do you just maintain your rejection as a faith-based belief? In other words, can you demonstrate by evidence or logical argument that you are not simply indulging in “wishful thinking”?
Now that it has been shown that you are in fact maintaining your religion like belief system based solely on wishful thinking, is there anything you want to add that would make your irrational stance seem justified, even to yourself?
 
I have a couple of questions

What was your frame of reference for the height

What was your frame of reference for the speed

What was your frame of reference for the distance travelled

What factor allowed you a 25k straight view?
 
How did you measure the size and distance of this thing you saw?

I will assume for the moment that you just guessed (feel free to prove me wrong). What you might have seen is a smaller object which was closer to you than you guessed, in which case it didn't cover that huge distance in one second.

How did you rule out this possibility?


Hey Brain ...

Sorry about the delay responding to your questions. I wanted to finish up with Akhenaten and John Albert who only proved that the skeptics last stand is ridicule. I really hope to change this place for the better. Anyway, to answer your questions:

Question: How did you measure the size and distance of this thing you saw?

Distance: The object was spotted as it came up from behind a mountain and descended down into the valley across the lake from us. I lived there and know the terrain. By getting a map and measuring the distance from where the object landed to my observational position, I could get a fairly accurate distance measurement ( plus or minus about 100 meters ).

Size: The distance was known and against the backdrop of the mountian and other landmarks, it was easy to visually estimate the size. Specifically, it was at night and the object was illuminated. As it descended to the forest floor, it lit up the tree tops, so it was possible to determine its width based on the density of the forest and the size of the trees at that point.

Plus I was used to watching things in the valley, including light aircraft, boats on the lake, hang gliders, car headlamps across the lake and so on. I had done hiking in the valley and looked down into from above. I'd driven the highway near where the object went down numerous times. I had also been in aircraft in the valley twice. Judging the size and distance of things in a closed environment like that is something you get pretty good at. Plus I cross checked my estimates against an actual map.

Question: What you might have seen is a smaller object which was closer to you than you guessed, in which case it didn't cover that huge distance in one second. How did you rule out this possibility?

Answer: It was plain that the object had descended into the foest floor across the lake because:

A. It came up from behind the mountain across the lake. There was a glow behind the mountian which was blocking view of the object until it came up over the mountain top. Then the object appeared and descended into the forest in front of the mountain a few hundred meters from the lakeshore, on the other side of the lake and as it landed, you could see the light shining through the trees on the other side of the lake.

B. It was observed three times. It came up out of the forest where it had landed, and then performed a tilted figure eight like maneuver, then settled back into the forest in the same spot. It did that twice. The repeated observation helped to confirm the initial observation's location and distance.

C. Before it did it's instant accelleration maneuver. It came up out of the forest and stopped. At this time it was dawn and the surrounding landscape was clearly visible. I was outside, looking straight across the lake at this thing with nothing but air separating us.

If you have any more questions please feel free to ask.

j.r.
 
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Hey Brain ...

Sorry about the delay responding to your questions. I wanted to finish up with Akhenaten and John Albert who only proved that the skeptics last stand is ridicule. I really hope to change this place for the better. Anyway, to answer your questions:


< :alien009: >


j.r.


Blimp.
 
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Why didn't you go and see what it was?


I was on the other side of the lake, it was late at night, at someone else's house, with no decent flashlight for poking around in the forest in the dark. I'm not sure if you know how dark it is in a forest at night ... but I used to walk home sometimes at night along the road, and when there are no lamps, you can't see anything. The only way I knew I was on the road was by feeling where the gravel was along the shoulder. Anyway, because it had landed, and the last time I saw it go down was around 4:00am, I figured it wouldn't be long until dawn, so I figured I'd keep an eye on where it went down, and as soon as it got light enough, I'd do just as you suggested, drive all the way around, hike in and check it out. I was just in the process of getting a really accurate fix based on the landmarks, when it came up and took off.

j.r.
 
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Answer: It was plain that the object had descended into the foest floor across the lake because:

A. It came up from behind the mountain across the lake. There was a glow behind the mountian which was blocking view of the object until it came up over the mountain top. Then the object appeared and descended into the forest in front of the mountain a few hundred meters from the lakeshore, on the other side of the lake and as it landed, you could see the light shining through the trees on the other side of the lake.

B. It was observed three times. It came up out of the forest where it had landed, and then performed a tilted figure eight like maneuver, then settled back into the forest in the same spot. It did that twice. The repeated observation helped to confirm the initial observation's location and distance.

C. Before it did it's instant accelleration maneuver. It came up out of the forest and stopped. At this time it was dawn and the surrounding landscape was clearly visible. I was outside, looking straight across the lake at this thing with nothing but air separating us.

If you have any more questions please feel free to ask.


Here's a question: You've demonstrated many, many times that your arguments are simply lies. What is to make anyone believe anything you've said above isn't just another in a long string of lies? What is it about your arguments that you believe merits honest consideration when so many of your arguments to this point have been dishonest?

You see, all you've got above is a bunch of apparent nonsense based on nothing more than your say-so. And since there's no good reason to accept anything you say as true, then what good is another line or two in a story with no credibility to start with?

Or are you just here to talk the talk?
 
I was just in the process of getting a really accurate fix based on the landmarks, when it came up and took off.
I take it you still went to the spot you thought it had landed to see if it had left any physical traces? If so, what did you find? If not, why not?
 
I was on the other side of the lake, it was late at night, at someone else's house, with no decent flashlight for poking around in the forest in the dark. I'm not sure if you know how dark it is in a forest at night ... but I used to walk home sometimes at night along the road, and when there are no lamps, you can't see anything. The only way I knew I was on the road was by feeling where the gravel was along the shoulder. Anyway, because it had landed, and the last time I saw it go down was around 4:00am, I figured it wouldn't be long until dawn, so I figured I'd keep an eye on where it went down, and as soon as it got light enough, I'd do just as you suggested, drive all the way around, hike in and check it out. I was just in the process of getting a really accurate fix based on the landmarks, when it came up and took off.

j.r.


This is just a bigfoot report with a couple of words changed.
 
I take it you still went to the spot you thought it had landed to see if it had left any physical traces? If so, what did you find? If not, why not?


I drove around the other side on the highway to a spot as close as I could get to where it had landed and pulled off to the side of the road. I got out to see, but the area was fenced off. I was much younger then ( 16 ) and I had my Mom's car. I wasn't supposed to have been there in the first place. If the object hadn't taken off already, I would have jumped the fence and gone in anyway, but since it was gone, I figured I should be responsible with the car privileges. If I had gotten into trouble, I'm not so certain I'd have gotten any more overnight privileges at the girlfriend's, not to mention trying to explain why I was out there.

j.r.
 
So after all that (and why the details of this incident had to extracted from you bit by bit in this fashion after days of dropping hints and choosing not to answer direct questions I don't know) all we have is a description of a lit object landing and taking off again, mostly in darkness and some distance from you, your assessment that its manouvers were not physically possible (which, as you observed it only from a single direction, is questionable) and no confirmation of, let alone inspection of, the landing site.

Even if we accept that you're telling the truth as you remember it (and I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt there) and that your memory is accurate (an even more generous assumption) we still have nothing that amounts to more than "I saw something, and I couldn't tell what it was".

The mental gymnastics required to leap from that to the conclusion that it was aliens would be beyond me, even if I had been standing right beside you and seen the same thing.
 
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I drove around the other side on the highway to a spot as close as I could get to where it had landed and pulled off to the side of the road. I got out to see, but the area was fenced off. I was much younger then ( 16 ) and I had my Mom's car. I wasn't supposed to have been there in the first place. If the object hadn't taken off already, I would have jumped the fence and gone in anyway, but since it was gone, I figured I should be responsible with the car privileges. If I had gotten into trouble, I'm not so certain I'd have gotten any more overnight privileges at the girlfriend's, not to mention trying to explain why I was out there.

j.r.


Is this typical of the stories accepted by USI as "truth"?

Is this "evidence of [your] own conscious and unimpaired senses, that Earth is being visited by objects of alien origin."

Are you for real?
 
I was on the other side of the lake, it was late at night, at someone else's house, with no decent flashlight for poking around in the forest in the dark. I'm not sure if you know how dark it is in a forest at night ... but I used to walk home sometimes at night along the road, and when there are no lamps, you can't see anything. The only way I knew I was on the road was by feeling where the gravel was along the shoulder. Anyway, because it had landed, and the last time I saw it go down was around 4:00am, I figured it wouldn't be long until dawn, so I figured I'd keep an eye on where it went down, and as soon as it got light enough, I'd do just as you suggested, drive all the way around, hike in and check it out. I was just in the process of getting a really accurate fix based on the landmarks, when it came up and took off.

j.r.

Cool story bro.
 
Oh. :( I thought we were going to get something with even a little bit of corroborative detail. Instead we get a tale which wouldn't fool a toddler.

What did you do in the immediate aftermath, ufology? Write your recollection down immediately? Compare notes with others who might have been viewing the sky at that time? Contact local astronomers? Visit the supposed landing site in daylight? Anything? Bueller?
 
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Hold on, you brought your powers of character-judging up, not anyone else. Challenging those powers by requiring evidence isn't impugning your character, only the abilities you claim to have.
 
Acutally I responded with several reasons. But this thread isn't about my character anyway, so stop posting information that constantly challenges me to defend it. Concentrate on the topic.

j.r.

No, you whined about it until I explained it to you, after which you stopped making the silly claim. No, this thread is not about your character so why did you post something about it which I responded to? You would be better served responding to on-topic posts and staying on-topic yourself.

Now back on topic. Do you have any unambiguous evidence that ET is among us?
 
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